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Old 07-02-2006, 12:08 AM   #31
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

not discriminate... my point is... if they are acceptable to our community then why allot of people are against this? thats made me confuse... and had made me ask your oppinion for discussion...
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Old 07-02-2006, 12:14 AM   #32
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

I have not met one person that does not want them in our society... ever. I am sure there are a few, but most people believe that they should be aloud to live in our society. Maybe you confuse with people not wanting them to marry with people not wanting them in our society.
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Old 07-02-2006, 12:29 AM   #33
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

so... lets consider another place than the USA.... it is not welcome in the asian and middle east, furthermore, they are not welcome by the whole country...well thats a massive amount of people and society why...??? thats why iam asking anyone of you to make me realize it is NORMAL to society of the world... even i ve found not one guy here in NL who hates homosexuality... they even got banned flamming the homosexuality person(s)...
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Old 07-02-2006, 12:46 AM   #34
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

First off, your argument is based off the logical fallacy known as an argument by consensus. Just because the majority thinks something is wrong, it doesn't make it wrong. These people are probably not basing their beliefs on anything logical, and instead base them off their own sexual preferences. (as in they don't find the same sex attractive, and are not aroused and may even be disgusted at the thought of participating in a same sex relationship)

I promise you that you'll have a hard time finding any intelligent reason to believe homosexuality is wrong, or that homosexuals are any less deserving of rights and freedoms when compared to heterosexuals.
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Old 07-02-2006, 12:55 AM   #35
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

yea i see your point... even though it is acceptable to some community, but for some other, it is not... thats why iam here to share our knowledge to clarify the NORMALITY of the existance of the homosexuality... clear??

just read this stuff it about an ex-gay organizations

The ex-gay or exodus movement is a controversial movement that consists of several groups that seek to alter the sexual orientation of homosexual or bisexual individuals to a heterosexual orientation. Most of these groups believe that all homosexual or bisexual individuals should attempt to make this change, because many of these groups regard such sexual orientation as immoral. Ex-gay groups believe this can be achieved through counseling, prayer, and other techniques. The method in general is called reparative therapy. Most ex-gay organizations extend this to include people who identify as transgender, on the basis that they consider such feelings or behaviour to be related to homosexuality.

The movement is primarily based in the United States (though it exists in other countries such as Canada, Sweden and the United Kingdom), and is largely led by evangelical and fundamentalist Christians (see also Homosexuality and Christianity).

The modern ex-gay movement has been broadly condemned by nearly all major psychological, psychiatric, and medical associations. Today, these associations point to a lack of scientific evidence suggesting that homosexuals can change their orientation and argue that homosexuals have no reason to do so aside from societal pressure. They say repressing those feelings would likely cause future psychological damage.These assertions are vigorously disputed by those in the ex-gay movement.

Because of the differences of opinion between modern medicine and Fundamentalist Christianity's views on what homosexuality actually is, establishing a dialogue between the two groups is difficult at best.

and another one,
Afghan tribesman faces death for wedding to teenage boy
A Pashtun tribesman who fell in love with and "married" a 16-year-old boy faces summary execution in Pakistan after his "unholy union" provoked outrage among Islamic leaders.
The "marriage" between Liaquat Ali, 42, and the teenager, Markeen Afridi, was conducted with all the ceremony of a conventional tribal wedding, including a troupe of singers and a feast.
But guests who arrived at the village of Nangrosa in the Khyber Agency, 80 kilometres north of Peshawar, said they were scandalised to discover the "bride" was a boy.
Fazal Amin, 30, a shopkeeper, said 200 people attended the wedding last Monday, watching the "bride" arrive in costume on a white horse, as tradition demands.
"I didn't know that Liaquat was going to marry a boy. When we discovered, everyone was taken by surprise and many guests went back without eating the traditional walima [feast]," he said.
Local reports said the boy's family, who are extremely poor, agreed to the union after Liaquat, an Afghan refugee, paid a dowry of 40,000 Pakistani rupees ($885) - a huge sum.
However, as news of the scandal leaked out, Afridi tribal elders convened an emergency jirga (tribal council) on Wednesday to decide how to respond to the "immoral and shameful act".

A tribal elder, Haji Namdar, recently returned from a year-long pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia to impose a Taliban-style law on the area, some of the wildest and least accessible territory in Pakistan.

Millat Khan Afridi, 56, another tribal elder, said he would advocate the death penalty for the pair because they had held up the reputation of Islam and the tribe to ridicule and contempt.

It is also common practice in such disputes for tribal delegations to march on the homes of the offending people and set them ablaze as a warning to others.

Telegraph, London

thats why i want to have a clear picture for this matter hoping for explanation that should homosexuality valid to the world's community.... ??
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Old 07-02-2006, 01:55 AM   #36
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

we have made it clear, you are just being stubborn.


The homosexuals are people too, they are no different than straight people... Excluding sexual preference.
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Old 07-02-2006, 02:04 AM   #37
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

I have to agree with Corbenk. We're just talking rights here in America, where WE live, no where else. Our laws arent the same anywhere else. And he is right about homosexuals just being the same as us. People are thinking of just what they do behind closed doors, and not looking at them as human beings. Meh.

Man. All I wanted was to start an FC, and all this non groovy debate stuff starts, yah. Screw this. I'm gettin a sub or somethin. Then I'll see if I I got new posts in that FC. >.>
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Old 07-02-2006, 02:24 AM   #38
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

I think I'm either like really stupid, or like this debate doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Probably both. Anyways I don't really understand what your question is...Either way shouldn't this sortof not be in the debate section? Cause like you said you're here to 'learn' and gain unprejudice knowledge on the subject. So you don't really want to "debate" right?

Anyways, there is'nt really a gay and lesbian environment is there? I mean they don't specify these things right? They don't put the name of a city and then have a little tag underneath that says "Straight people Community" or "bisexual" etc, etc.

Also, people don't become homosexual because they feel it'll make them important. [I'm guessing that's what you were saying with. 'Why is it important to be gay and lesbian."] They do it because that is a part of who you are. That's like saying "Why is it important to be whatever culture you are." It's not a sense of importance, it's a sense of being. There's pride and stuff, I guess, but that's different.

Anyways. Homosexuality isn't a choice. It's another gift of love. And to be devoid of love is to be devoid of life.

Also, I think it's alright to have a Gay/lesbian FC because they are a minority, and in any democratic country, this is another way that we protect any minority. Such as french, and Chinese channels. Or at least we have those up here.

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Old 07-02-2006, 03:05 AM   #39
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

Though there may be no logic behind the denial of rights, you must remember that logic was based off an opinion. Lets go back to when counting first started. Who decided that a single object would be considered "1"? Why not a billion or 2? It was an opinion that was then based upon that mathmatics was formed.

Thus, logic (math as an example) is no more than a decision (opinion) a credible person made. In this manner logic is no better to be based upon than a religious belief. For that matter the idealogy behind your statement, Miburo, is an opinion from the standpoint
Quote:
These people are probably not basing their beliefs on anything logical, and instead base them off their own sexual preferences. (as in they don't find the same sex attractive, and are not aroused and may even be disgusted at the thought of participating in a same sex relationship)
You descibe logic as being a "correct" manner of thinking where it is no more than an opinion, or should I say "a more complex" opinion.

Though I do not deny that your claim or opinion are any differnt than mine, I still argue that this "logic" you speak of is no better than one's opinion. For that matter, your statement :

Quote:
Just because the majority thinks something is wrong, it doesn't make it wrong.
"Wrong" in both cases is controlled by the majority. IT is still an opinion as well as one that is standardized by the number supporting therein. You contradict yourself in that statement. Perhaps it is your bias torwards this subject? In which case it is an opinion and not a fact or what you believe to be the definition and due proccess of "logic".

What I am stateing here is that you think that there is an absolute and definite due process of "correct" reason, but you fail at realizing that it is nothing more than a diverse opinion and as such believe that that is why it is better than one's religious or sexual beliefs.
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Old 07-02-2006, 03:06 AM   #40
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

im not against it.

it's the reality of today.
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:07 AM   #41
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshgrease
Though there may be no logic behind the denial of rights, you must remember that logic was based off an opinion. Lets go back to when counting first started. Who decided that a single object would be considered "1"? Why not a billion or 2? It was an opinion that was then based upon that mathmatics was formed.
Wrong, whether we called a single object 'one,' 'a billion,' or even used 'potato' it would still just be a singular object. It's actual numerical value wouldn't change based off of opinion. A rose by any other name would still be the same damn flower, or something like that, afterall. ; )

Logic is the use of reasoning, rational, and analytic thought. It's principles are universal among all people of every country in the world. Sound logic in one language is sound logic in another. Logic isn't opinion, it's what is used to justify and add merit towards your opinion.

Quote:
"Wrong" in both cases is controlled by the majority. IT is still an opinion as well as one that is standardized by the number supporting therein. You contradict yourself in that statement. Perhaps it is your bias torwards this subject? In which case it is an opinion and not a fact or what you believe to be the definition and due proccess of "logic".
Again, no. By your reasoning, back when slavery was legal and widely accepted it wasn't "wrong." Back when everyone believed the world was flat, that was the right stance. It doesn't matter if every single person on the planet believes the sun revolves around the earth, it's not going to change the fact that we go around the sun. There is no contradiction in that logical premise.

As for being biased? No, I'm heterosexual. I don't even have any homosexual friends or relatives. Whether or not gays are given equal rights doesn't affect me in the least. I'm merely stating what is the most just, fair, and reasonable way to approach the topic.

If you believe I'm wrong in something pertaining towards the topic of homosexuality, then provide a counter-argument towards that. Don't ironically attack the use of logic with your own (flawed) logic.
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:08 AM   #42
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

I would kinda classm yself under Bi, I see no problem with it. Though *And not meaning to bitch* When I was at a restraunts bar *waiting for our table* two lesbians where playing pool and half way through they flung down the cues and started getting the tongue out in public, kids where watching and everything. I would say its ok, you can share it with people but not to openly like in a well known public place where all age groups would be.
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Old 07-02-2006, 05:07 PM   #43
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

http://www.narutolounge.com/forums/s...=homosexuality

That is the thread that started it all with homosexuality here. But this subject is different... It's about whether or not homosexuality itself is normal.

Well despite what some people are saying, it technically isn't "normal." But another thing that is not technically "normal" is liking the taste of sardines. A majority of people do not like them. (That's what FG is trying to argue. A majority's opinions should effect the minority.)

Now here's the thing: Is liking the taste of sardines detrimental to society in any way? No, not really. Well what about being left handed? No... Well what about homosexuality? Not at all. The existance of a minority does not "corrupt" other people. If you believe that homosexuality is gross, then gay people are not going to force you to think otherwise. I personally find people who enjoy fecal sex to be disgusting... However, it is a private affair that is none of my business.

Now allow me to address the concerns that homosexuality is a psyhological disorder. According to the American Psychological Association (APA), to be disordered, a condition must A) regularly cause distress or B) interfere with social effectiveness. Only disorders that cause a patient to suffer or result in adjustment problems are thought to be appropriate for inclusion in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.

Now some of you might say, "Well gay people face a LOT of social problems because of their sexuality." That is true. They are discriminated against constantly. But I'd like to counter that Muslims today also face similar issues (albiet because of their religion and/or race rather than their sexuality). Should we put Arab people on the list for mentally disordered as well?

"But biologically, it is correct for penis + vagina. Penis + penis = nothing!" Okay. What about people who cannot have children? What if a person is castrated or is biologically incapable of having kids? Additionally, it has been theorized by many evolutionary scientists (working in conjunction with other scientists in multiple fields) that homosexuality may genetically be a way to help control the population.


Now to address three BIG issues... About whether or not homosexuality is a choice and whether or not it can even be treated to change their sexual preference. Additionally, the following tells a little about whether or not gay people can be good parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php?id=31
Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.

Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation?

No; even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, often coerced by family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable. However, not all gay, lesbian, and bisexual people who seek assistance from a mental health professional want to change their sexual orientation. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people may seek psychological help with the coming out process or for strategies to deal with prejudice, but most go into therapy for the same reasons and life issues that bring straight people to mental health professionals.

What About So-Called "Conversion Therapies"?

Some therapists who undertake so-called conversion therapy report that they have been able to change their clients' sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Close scrutiny of these reports, however. show several factors that cast doubt on their claims. For example, many of these claims come from organizations with an ideological perspective that condemns homosexuality. Furthermore, their claims are poorly documented; for example, treatment outcome is not followed and reported over time, as would be the standard to test the validity of any mental health intervention.

The American Psychological Association is concerned about such therapies and their potential harm to patients. In 1997, the Association's Council of Representatives passed a resolution reaffirming psychology's opposition to homophobia in treatment and spelling out a client's right to unbiased treatment and self-determination. Any person who enters into therapy to deal with issues of sexual orientation has a right to expect that such therapy will take place in a professionally neutral environment, without any social bias.

Can Lesbians, Gay Men, and Bisexuals Be Good Parents?

Yes. Studies comparing groups of children raised by homosexual and by heterosexual parents find no developmental differences between the two groups of children in four critical areas: their intelligence, psychological adjustment, social adjustment, and popularity with friends. It is also important to realize that a parent's sexual orientation does not indicate their children's.

Another myth about homosexuality is the mistaken belief that gay men have more of a tendency than heterosexual men to sexually molest children. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuals molest children.
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Old 07-02-2006, 06:32 PM   #44
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAztek
Additionally, it has been theorized by many evolutionary scientists (working in conjunction with other scientists in multiple fields) that homosexuality may genetically be a way to help control the population.
I bow down to you.

Another thing, about homosexuality being a way to control the population? I actually believe that AIDS and STDS are mother nature's ways of controlling the population, in a way, don't you think? And what about cancer or other diseases? I'm thinkin so.
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Old 07-03-2006, 12:45 AM   #45
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Re: Gay and Lesbian should this environment event exist in the community?

i think even through it is a bit gross they are still human and have the ability to do as they wish and as such 1 of my friends is gay and he dosen't treat people differently and we shouldn't either
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