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Old 08-23-2006, 12:56 AM   #1
IGOS
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P2P downloading...

i personally DL alot over Azureus and Limewire Pro, should this form of file transfer be legal or not, although i love free stuff, people work long and hard to build programs and make movies for it to be taken for free. if the artist wants their stuff to be able to be downloaded and watched/listened to, or whatever it is used, then they should provide it themselves.but i think this should be illegal. ok so what do you think?
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:00 AM   #2
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Re: P2P downloading...

If I download a song or movie and like it, I will usually buy the album/dvd of the movie.... As for programs, make them more affordable and I'll buy them... But no, that form of file transfer (excluding music) should be illegal.
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:12 AM   #3
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Re: P2P downloading...

I thought it was illegal already O.o. Anyway if the person that provided the video, music, etc. does not have authorization of the artist I think its very wrong. Its stealing in my eyes, also if you like that certain artist you should pay for their products so they can continue to put out stuff, because if that artist does not get any profit most likely (in music) he/she will not get a record deal again and you will not be able to hear his/her music, see his/her movies, shows, etc.
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:19 AM   #4
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Re: P2P downloading...

its not that i like the artist, never met the person but i like the work so i dl it, and well its free, sometimes i will support a product but i dont care to pay for it
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:23 AM   #5
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Re: P2P downloading...

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Originally Posted by Itachi God of Sharingan View Post
its not that i like the artist, never met the person but i like the work so i dl it, and well its free, sometimes i will support a product but i dont care to pay for it
Oh quit making fun of me you know what I meant


Thats what I said if you support it and you want to see more of it you should pay for it.
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:55 AM   #6
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Re: P2P downloading...

I guess I'll play devil's advocate on this one.

It's not really stealing, in a way. Someone likely paid for the program/movie/cd, they're just sharing it with you. You'd let a buddy copy your CD, right? The way I see it is everytime I hook up to a P2P network and let people download my stuff, all these people are fellow fans of whatever it is that they're downloading, and any fan of what I like is a friend of mine. So I'm just sharing what I have with all my friends. And they share with me, we're all just good buddies. Nothing wrong with that.

And a lot of the songs I can get off the radio if I wanted. So downloading any song that's on the radio is just a more convienent way of taping it off the radio. Nothing wrong with that either.

And really, prices for CDs/DVDs are ridiculous. 30 bucks for a god damn movie? 21 for a CD? Screw that, I don't even want those shitty bonus features and there's only a few songs on that CD that don't suck ass. Movies make hundreds of millions before even going to DVD in theathers. Musicians, if even a couple of the songs are good, make millions from the signing deal and get royalties for every movie their music is used in and for every station their songs are played on. CDs/DVDs aren't expensive, can't be more than a few cents per disc including the burning process. Why the hell are the final products so ridiculously expensive? Especially when they know I can get a lower grade version somewhere else for free? They're greedy bastards, screw them!

And honestly, piracy just sounds badass. When I saw pirates attacked that cruise ship somewhere around Africa I nearly shat myself, didn't realize those guys were still around. Really, who wouldn't want to be a pirate, Arr!?

Of course I'm not arguing the legality on the issue, because that's already set in stone. I'm referring to the morality on the issue.

It should be noted that these aren't my real views on the issue. I just honestly hate those group hug type 'debates' where no one disagrees with each other. Anyone with sense should be able to punch holes through my argument pretty easily, fortunately for me there aren't many of you guys around. ; )
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Old 08-23-2006, 04:50 AM   #7
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Re: P2P downloading...

Actually, P2P is illegal because we are not paying the people that had work hard to do the music @ manga @ anime that they had put their heart to. We are simply robbing them. So I would say, yes, please stop P2P.
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Old 08-23-2006, 10:25 AM   #8
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Re: P2P downloading...

I rarely use P2P for anything but music. Pirating movies is just stupid (usually the worst-ass quality EVER), pirating programs can get you in deep shit (although I have once or twice), and there's really no point in pirating images. I believe that what I do is wrong by stealing there music, but I also think that the legal P2P programs should cost a whole lot less then they already do.

I also have my reason for using P2P, which I soon hope to alleviate. My Mom.

She doesn't like a lot of the music I listen to, so she doesn't let me buy the CD's. What I plan to do, though, is buy every CD that I have music from (which is hella lot), over the next year or two. I've already added some of the music she does like to my birthday wish list, so that gets me out of some crap. If I could, I would buy it all. But for now I got to lean back and take what I can get, when I can get it.

From now on, my plan is to download maybe a track or two from certain artists or albums and then if I like them, go out and buy the CD. If not, the recycle bin works wonders!
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Old 08-23-2006, 10:38 AM   #9
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Re: P2P downloading...

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Actually, P2P is illegal because we are not paying the people that had work hard to do the music @ manga @ anime that they had put their heart to. We are simply robbing them. So I would say, yes, please stop P2P.
Someone paid for it, they're just sharing it with you. : )

And besides, from a moral standpoint, how is it different than you going to NarutoCentral.com and downloading the latest subbed Naruto anime or a chapter from the manga? You didn't pay for that either, right? (Unless you're a gold member, but then NC.com is profiting from someone else's work[I'm sure most of that goes to paying for bandwith, upkeep, and undating the site, but eh]. Which would make it even worse since people who share through a P2P network don't usually make anything from doing so.

I'm sure most people wouldn't go out and buy the Naruto DVDs or manga volumes when they've got the whole collection sitting on their PC. Morally, it's not really any different.
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:00 AM   #10
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Re: P2P downloading...

Ah and Miburo-san makes a valid point to turn the tides of the debate.

I follow what Miburo says, and it really does make sense in a way. If the artists make 5-mil on just signing a deal, what's it if I don't buy the CD and download one song? >.<
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:00 PM   #11
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Re: P2P downloading...

heres the thing in Canada P2P downloading and anything like it is fully legal, also i saw someone make fun of the pirated movies quality, i just want to add that if you know who to get them from they are awsome quality, but thats not the debate so i will stay on topic, only some countries have come to legalize P2P file transfers. when i got my comp back i downloaded approx. 300 gigs in a matter of 1 week.
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:23 PM   #12
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Re: P2P downloading...

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Someone paid for it, they're just sharing it with you. : )

And besides, from a moral standpoint, how is it different than you going to NarutoCentral.com and downloading the latest subbed Naruto anime or a chapter from the manga? You didn't pay for that either, right? (Unless you're a gold member, but then NC.com is profiting from someone else's work[I'm sure most of that goes to paying for bandwith, upkeep, and undating the site, but eh]. Which would make it even worse since people who share through a P2P network don't usually make anything from doing so.

I'm sure most people wouldn't go out and buy the Naruto DVDs or manga volumes when they've got the whole collection sitting on their PC. Morally, it's not really any different.
Someone paid for but you didnt^^

Youre right its no different than us going to Naruto cCaentral and downloading eps. Im afraid we are all guilty there. And as much as I like getting the latest manga volume (I cant believe Im about to say this) its very wrong and should not be allowed. If the people at NC are not making any money by charging a fee for extra downloads thats good. They did not make the product why should they receive profit from it?

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
And really, prices for CDs/DVDs are ridiculous. 30 bucks for a god damn movie? 21 for a CD? Screw that, I don't even want those shitty bonus features and there's only a few songs on that CD that don't suck ass. Movies make hundreds of millions before even going to DVD in theathers. Musicians, if even a couple of the songs are good, make millions from the signing deal and get royalties for every movie their music is used in and for every station their songs are played on. CDs/DVDs aren't expensive, can't be more than a few cents per disc including the burning process. Why the hell are the final products so ridiculously expensive? Especially when they know I can get a lower grade version somewhere else for free? They're greedy bastards, screw them!
Why should you pay $30.00 for a movie? Easy because if you want the luxury of watching the movie on the comfort of your own house any time you want, you should pay for it. It is the way it has worked for thousands of years. And yes movies do make a ridiculous amount of money before coming out with the dvd, they make so much money that I understand where your coming from saying you dont feel lke paying $30 bucks for the movie. But you forget the hundreds of people that work in one movie. Forget the actors and the producers, think about the cooks,the stunt men,the people that construct the sets, the people that send out checks to everyone one else sitting in an offfice doing paper work from 6:00 am to 12-1:00am. They are all trying to earn a decent living they dont get paid like the actors do. I think at the end of the day they deserve to get paid for breaking their backs just so we can see our favorite novels, comic books, etc. come to life.

Edit: The same thing applies to musicians there are hundresd of people that work to make one album and they all have to get paid. Not all musicians get money just for signing a contract. Also a lot of them get ripped off by the people above them.
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:29 PM   #13
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Re: P2P downloading...

You point is still not valid sora, the movie makes billions before the dvd release.

As for musc downloading, if there is any artist who says "do not pirate out music, it is how we make our money" I would urge EVERYONE to download there music. Music is about self expression, I would pay some one to get my music out there, I know others are the same. It should not be about the money.

My stance: I think it should be illegal, but I wills till pirate all my shit anyways. Yes, I am a hypocrite.
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:35 PM   #14
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Re: P2P downloading...

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You point is still not valid sora, the movie makes billions before the dvd release.
.
My point is still not valid? Okay so you wont pay $30 bucks for a movie because the directors and actors are stealing all the money. Does that give you the right to deny the real hardworkers behind the film from getting paid? By downloading the movie for free.
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Old 08-23-2006, 05:23 PM   #15
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Re: P2P downloading...

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Someone paid for but you didnt^^

Youre right its no different than us going to Naruto cCaentral and downloading eps. Im afraid we are all guilty there. And as much as I like getting the latest manga volume (I cant believe Im about to say this) its very wrong and should not be allowed. If the people at NC are not making any money by charging a fee for extra downloads thats good. They did not make the product why should they receive profit from it?
I suppose you'll never borrow a videogame, movie, or music CD from someone then, right? Especially if you've got no intention of ever buying it yourself. You didn't pay for it, afterall. Anyone who does something like that is a thief, yeah?

As for the NC thing, they'd only be recieving profit for hosting and coding it for popular media devices. They're not claiming to have made anything they're making avalible. Doesn't change the fact that I'm sure as hell not going out and spending god knows how much on manga volumes when I've got them all saved right on my hard drive. : )

As for your "The hardworking people behind the scenes aren't getting paid" argument, no dude. It's not like they're not going to get paid. "Sorry, DVD didn't sell to well, we're not paying you for the work you did in regards to the production of the movie." Doesn't work like that. Those guys don't even get royalties for DVD sales, it's not their intellectual property or anything. They get paid by the hour, or are on salary. They're getting paid regardless of if the movie is a success or not.
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