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Old 07-15-2006, 05:30 PM   #1
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Capital Punishment

I intend for this debate to focus mainly on the use of capital punishment in first world countries. I don't want anyone telling me that various dictators have killed innocents under the guise of "capital punishment." You're not going to get much argument from people if you tell them that was unfair, so don't bother.

Other than that, I'm not really going to put any limits on this thing. That means that you can argue both the morality and practicality of capital punishment, as well as discuss how the death penalty is currently being administered.

I'm not going to start with any facts or figures of my own. I'll tell you that I'm for the abolition of capital punishment, but I'd prefer countering your arguments to starting off with one of my own.
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Old 07-15-2006, 07:26 PM   #2
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Re: Capital Punishment

Speaking from a strictly moral standpoint, since I don't have any facts showing it's actual effectiveness in detering crime and whatnot (I would actually guess it probably doesn't deter crime much more than prision terms, since people still commit murder even in states that allow the death penalty. Sure stops anyone who gets put to death from ever commiting a crime again though. ^^), I'm for the death penalty in certain situations.

If you kill someone in such a way that shows complete lack of respect of human life, then your right to live should also be forfeit. You can't show disrespect and expect respect in return. The person you kill won't ever be given the chance to live out the rest of his/her life, why should you be given such a privilege?

And I don't buy the 'Murder is Murder' or 'Killing is Killing' no matter what the circumstance crap. Everything is circumstancial. A man kidnapping, raping, and then murdering some jogger shouldn't fall under the same moral standards as a guy killing some burgler who attempted to attack his sleeping children, right?

"But the guy defending his family had no choice, you've got a choice when it comes to killing a convicted rapist and serial killer. It's totally different." Sure, there's a choice, but the serial killer made that choice on his own. He knows what the consequence of his actions might bring about. It was his decisions that would bring about his own death. No one else is to blame.

But like I said, everything is circumstancial. The criminal's intent and compentcy should be taken into consideration. Capital punishment shouldn't be used casually.

Last edited by Miburo; 07-15-2006 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:54 PM   #3
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Re: Capital Punishment

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Originally Posted by Miburo

And I don't buy the 'Murder is Murder' or 'Killing is Killing' no matter what the circumstance crap. Everything is circumstancial. A man kidnapping, raping, and then murdering some jogger shouldn't fall under the same moral standards as a guy killing some burgler who attempted to attack his sleeping children, right?

"But the guy defending his family had no choice, you've got a choice when it comes to killing a convicted rapist and serial killer. It's totally different." Sure, there's a choice, but the serial killer made that choice on his own. He knows what the consequence of his actions might bring about. It was his decisions that would bring about his own death. No one else is to blame.
Okay so I agree with u on that example u gave but the taking of any life should have its concequences, We dont know anything about the killer in question he could have a wife and kids so how is it fair to them that they loose there father and husband. In this case I dont think that the death penalty would even come into question however I imagine he would still be given a punishment in this case.
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Old 07-17-2006, 01:17 PM   #4
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Re: Capital Punishment

If the killer has a wife and kids, then he should have taken that into consideration before murdering someone. Again, he's got no one to blame but himself. Either way, his family is going to suffer because of his actions. At least if he's put to death, then justice is served.
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Old 07-17-2006, 05:43 PM   #5
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Re: Capital Punishment

i think when a guy commits a crime so severe its either death penalty or life sentence. im for the death penalty. life sentence is using our tax money to friggin keep a guy in a cage, u still feed him and he's just there. there's really no point. we're paying to keep a guy alive even though he did something that deserves death. not worth it
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Old 07-17-2006, 06:12 PM   #6
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Re: Capital Punishment

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Originally Posted by GAma_Oyabun
i think when a guy commits a crime so severe its either death penalty or life sentence. im for the death penalty. life sentence is using our tax money to friggin keep a guy in a cage, u still feed him and he's just there. there's really no point. we're paying to keep a guy alive even though he did something that deserves death. not worth it
Speaking as a christian I dont think that it is not up to us to decide who lives and dies no matter the crime. I agree that even with a life sentence our tax dollars are paying to keep them alive and they still have minium freedom. I know that its expensive and it can hurt the economy but I cannot approve of taking someone elses life when we dont not have the right now even if they killed 4 people they still should be locked up over death.
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:10 PM   #7
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Re: Capital Punishment

The people the guy killed don't have the luxury of being able to live out the rest of their lives never worrying about finding a place to live or something to eat, why should their murderer get these things? There's nothing just or fair about that.

Why don't we have the right to get rid of someone who would murder innocent people? Don't use your relgious beliefs as a crutch for your argument, not everyone follows your moral guidelines. I know I'd be pissed if someone in my family was murdered and the murderer gets to live out the rest of his life in a jail somewhere.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but someone who takes an innocent person's life shouldn't be afforded any rights that he denied his victims. I don't see anything unfair with that reasoning.
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:19 PM   #8
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Re: Capital Punishment

From a moral standpoint, I am against capital punishment. They can serve a much greater good by trying to reform... They can make items for us, do road work, and etc. I do not believe in an "eye for an eye," no matter what occured. The death of a murderer, however satisfying it may be to victims' relatives, does not change the fact that nothing is gained by their death. I, myself, feel that a punishment of solitary confinement is FAR worse than death. And for all we know, these murderers could actually change and repent for their past sins.


However, as it has been pointed out to me on numerous occasions, having capital punishment DOES create less crime. People are less willing to do something stupid if they think they could get killed for it. (I'll try and find my original source later, since it was a scholarly article... However, Google will have to suffice for now.)

http://aler.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...stract/5/2/344
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/cgi...284095176Guest

Of course, it can easily be argued that what these studies are noticing is not causation, but merely correlation.
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:01 PM   #9
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Re: Capital Punishment

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAma_Oyabun
i think when a guy commits a crime so severe its either death penalty or life sentence. im for the death penalty. life sentence is using our tax money to friggin keep a guy in a cage, u still feed him and he's just there. there's really no point. we're paying to keep a guy alive even though he did something that deserves death. not worth it
I actually think keeping the guy in a cage would be better than the death penalty. Think about it hes dead he has no more worries, hes at peace. On the other hand if we keep him/her in a cage he spends like what 22, 23 1/2 hours a day in a cage by himself, at night hes probably getting raped, he eats crappy food (so they say), he cant do what he wants.
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:53 PM   #10
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Re: Capital Punishment

i'm from Singapore and here we do deliver the capital punishment - dealth penalty on our criminals..
for us it does work as many singaporeans fear it.. be it lethal injection or hanging..
i think that it is a good choice for punishment as for us it does work... though some may argue that putting them thru hell in a LIFE Sentence seems better as they can ACUTALLY suffer for the rest of their life, why keep them alive for in the first place in prison?
Its not as if they will b released to b a reformed member of society, or that they can contribute to society in prison, but Why give them the chance to repent? especially if they murdered someone? raped someone? killed a child?

Its over already and remorse and repent wont correct their misdeed, so i think that ending their life and leaving them in the hands of whoever they go to after death, is a more serving punishment for them...

in the eyes of the victims families, non or few will actually want to go on happily/peacfully, knowing that their loved one is dead, but the killer is still alive and living, even though his life in prison may not b a great one...

but i do feel badly about capital punishment when i think about the movie, "The Green Mile" though... if u watched it, u wld know what i mean..
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Old 07-17-2006, 11:30 PM   #11
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Re: Capital Punishment

I am surprised that my view is changing on this issue, to be honest I am starting agree with a lot of your everyones points and I dont think I have to many more counter points. Well seems u guys got me on this one lol I am beaten and thats cool I suppose some other people can keep debating but I'm done.
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:04 AM   #12
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Re: Capital Punishment

Quote:
Originally Posted by diane_cheeze
i'm from Singapore and here we do deliver the capital punishment - dealth penalty on our criminals..
for us it does work as many singaporeans fear it.. be it lethal injection or hanging..
i think that it is a good choice for punishment as for us it does work... though some may argue that putting them thru hell in a LIFE Sentence seems better as they can ACUTALLY suffer for the rest of their life, why keep them alive for in the first place in prison?
Its not as if they will b released to b a reformed member of society, or that they can contribute to society in prison, but Why give them the chance to repent? especially if they murdered someone? raped someone? killed a child?

Its over already and remorse and repent wont correct their misdeed, so i think that ending their life and leaving them in the hands of whoever they go to after death, is a more serving punishment for them...

in the eyes of the victims families, non or few will actually want to go on happily/peacfully, knowing that their loved one is dead, but the killer is still alive and living, even though his life in prison may not b a great one...

but i do feel badly about capital punishment when i think about the movie, "The Green Mile" though... if u watched it, u wld know what i mean..
yeah you have a point, capital punishment helps deter crime by making ppl thinking twice about doing crazy shit and if someone killed your family member, would you not want to see that person dead too?

But you have to also realize is that capital punishment goes completely against our constitution. Our constitution stresses reform, giving a second chance through a life sentence in jail. Now for most ppl they dont give a shit about the constitution, so you can toss that point out.

The main thing with capital punishment is that although you want to ignore the moral issue and say fuck it kill the criminal, it still plays a huge role in our judicial system. Chances are a good majority of jurors will have that nagging feeling in the back of their head that they rather spare the crimiinal instead of killing him. This is where capital punishment fails. We all kno our judicial system is not perfect, and a good majority of cases innocent ppl are convicted of capital punishment. Is this what we are trying to preach to society? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind? And furthermore, if that criminal is let loose from capital punishment, are we detering him from future crimes? Certainly not.

and just fyi-sparing someone is actually cheaper than killing him
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:15 AM   #13
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Re: Capital Punishment

an eye for an eye is good in the sense that this deters future murders, makes pple feel a sense of justice being served ..
of cos capital punishments are only given to those who deserve it.. its not given to every single murdered, or every single heavy duty crime doer.. its all weighed and thought thru which is y when the decision is made, its made with a feeling that this is what i feel is the most right decision..
with this in mind, i do not think that the judge wld feel regret.. cos its a decision that he made on his own... also, we gotta remember that the judge is SUPPOSED to b unbiased and make the correct decision based on facts not on feeling. if by chance the judge makes the decision based on feeling not fact, than that is something that he has to answer to himself for... and we cant say that judges will feel bad about this decision..

by the way here we differ... in singapore its just one judge's decision, whereas where u are from there is a jury.. so jury wise i understand how they may want to actually space a murderer.. its different when u have to by in a jury cos u are called to serve, and when u are the sole judge with the responsibility to make the correct decision.

though we preach that pple deserve a second chance to reform and return to society, could u bear the responsibility if the murderer u realeased is returned to society apparently "reformed" and he kills again?
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:59 AM   #14
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Re: Capital Punishment

i believe we already had a topic on this, but just to restate my previous points i'm for the enforcement of capital punishment, since it has been proven to have deterrent effects on heinous crimes. now if anyone are against this for the risk of the execution of the wrong person then it is our criminal justice system that must be improved and not our laws.
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Old 07-18-2006, 01:38 AM   #15
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Re: Capital Punishment

If given the choice between being killed or living out my life in solitary confinement where I'd never have to worry about food or shelter for the rest of my life, I'd much rather be alive.

Their victim won't ever laugh, smile, have another birthday, or get letters and visits from his/her family. Yet the person who took his/her life should be given the opportunity to experience such things? How is that just?

Why waste your time reforming someone who's going to spend the rest of his life in jail, never re-entering society? What makes a murderer's life so worth saving? I mean, if you're eligible for the death penalty then you didn't just kill someone driving drunk (where there is a possibility of reform, he didn't intentionally kill the person). You commited premeditated murder. There's absolutely no justification for that, there's no reason you should allow these types of people to live out their lives when they intentionally cut someone else's life short.

I just don't see the justice in allowing people like that to live. The shouldn't be allowed to even attempt to reform. Even if they were to be able to actually accomplish something that could benifit society (which they likely won't), why should they be given the chance to lead such a fufilling life when they couldn't afford their victims the same?

I'd actually be interested in any information showing convicted murderers who are serving life sentences for premeditated murder reforming and doing something that benifits society. Perferably something that we couldn't have done without, like curing a form of cancer or something.(Not writing a book, or something equally worthless) ; ) I highly doubt many of these people end up doing anything worthwhile, especially something that could possibly hope to atone for them taking some innocent person's life.
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