Vengeance

Thought I'd bring this up for shits & giggles. What we're discussing here is Dragon Ball Z the anime & nothing else. The reason why we're only touching up on this particular subject & not the series as a whole is because tards who consider DBZ to be the greatest thing eva only really talk about this part of the series.

Anyway does DBZ the anime really deserve all this hype that it gets? Now as a fan of DB myself I'd have to say hell no. Here are a few reasons why.

1. There is a lack of quality character & plot development here. The only real development seems to revolved around training & screaming on panel. One could argue so called deaths however this becomes counter productive since when good guys die they're generally revived with the magic balls. This aspect of the series removes the danger aspect when the actual fights take place.

2. Raditz end of discussion. Shouldn't have to say anything more forever for shits & giggles I'll elaborate on this a bit. The introduction of Raditz seemed like a cool thing. O shit Goku's an alien & has a brother! Surely this bad ass villain who is directly connected to the protagonist will have great relevance in the future of the story. O no wait he's killed off in one arc by people weaker than him when he could have simply flew into the air to avoid Piccolo's attack.

3. Vegeta end of discussion. Wait what how dare you mention Vegeta's name in a negative way you rage? Ok let me ask you this why the hell does Vegeta call himself prince of all saiyins? I mean his race is dead & he has no kingdom to begin with. Why doesn't he call himself King of all saiyin since you know his dad is dead? Wouldn't that make Vegeta a king instead of prince? Maybe it's because he wasn't blessed by the pope or something. Vegeta's character is pathetic. He's a spoiled brat with a huge inferiority complex & is the lapdog of the very being that destroied his race. I mean I can't even feel sorry for this asshole because even after gaining so called friends he's still an annoying prick & bitches about everything. Vegeta a cool cat? I think not!

4. Now let's move on to Trunks. His persona & background is borrowed from the cyber punk genres which ok I admit is kind of cool. But comeon now does this kid have daddy issues or what? He starts off like these androids must be destroyed or it'll be the end of everything & transforms into I can't show daddy by true power or else he'll get mad even though it could mean the difference between the world getting destroyed or being saved. Also if Trunks was killed by Cell in the past how is it he's able to exist during the cell games? This whole situation created to many holes in the plot.

5. Goku is mentally retarded. Seriously dude has brain damage. Dude is so fucked up in the head that he thinks it's ok to systematically abuse his son repeatedly so he could "save the world" instead of doing it himself. Dude let's Cell gain an advantage because he wants his son to take over as hero. Dude let's Vegeta beat the crap out of him just so he wouldn't hurt his so called pride. Dude plays around with Buu to a point where he loses his advantage so he could give Vegeta a shot at it. I mean really now it's not like billions of lives hang in the balance during these altercations riiiiiight? Fucking retarded.

6. The villains o yeah the villains. Cell is probably the only decent one. Frieza was an annoying little twit. Buu was bubblegum I repeat bubblegum. O yeah really intimidating. Now that we mention villains where the fuck was the supreme kai at when Frieza was systematically conquering & destroying planets? I mean the trillions of souls that had to have entered the "spirit world" from his galactic genocide couldn't have gone on unnoticed right? I wonder who dropped the ball on that one.

I could go on but I'll stop here.

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KatrinaKatt

I definitely don't think it's the greatest ever, but I enjoyed some of it..

A couple things that really bothered me:

(1) Everyone who is dead isn't really *dead*
(2) Everyone other than Goku/Gohan became useless after Namek imo.
(3) "Power level" is directly proportional to how loud (and long) you yell.
(4) Chi-Chi ... needs no explanation.

But I agree with your points. Story wise this one wasn't all that great; but It was one of the earliest action-packed Anime that a lot of people relate too.

Nostalgia is one powerful figure to overcome I think that's partly why people think it's so great still.

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I dunno, I thought dbz was alright. It didn't try to be anything it wasn't. I enjoyed it more for the lulz then the fighting.

This too.

Dagoro

This.

Going down memory lane is always a blast.

I agree with what has already been stated in regards to cast neglecting, but I rather liked the Vegeta/Goku dynamic. Vegeta hated and yet worshiped Goku at the same time, and personally I think AT played that angle well.

It makes sense coming from his pov. He had it beat into his head that he was destined for greatness, only to be outdone by a peasant on every turn.

Now, is it overrated ?

By some, sure. Going by personal experience however, most recognize the obvious contribution to the genre while at the same time admitting that it had flaws.

The extreme DBZ fan boys are pretty freaking bad though. Goku > Galactus, TTGL, Anti monitor, TTOA, MoM....yeah.

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kael03

A better question would be: Does it really matter?

uzumakinagato

Of course it doesn't really matter but how many manga discussion really matter?

Few to none but we still discuss many things cause we like to talk about it so don't really get that comment, and you still bothered on going to this thread while if you didn't think this matters then why click on the thread in the first place?

Hehe but you prob got a good explanation for this.

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Griffith- The man we all hate, still we consider him as one of the greatest villains ever. Raping the girl of you best friend before his eyes while he killed all his comrades.....




The eclips, damn that was fucked up....

Numinous

I'm surprised Vengeance dislikes Vegeta but likes Sasuke, they have many points in common. But I digress.

DB, in hindsight, suffers from the exact same thing Seinfeld, FF VII, Metropolis (and some others) suffer: being the pioneers and/or revolutionizers of their genre, their formulas are now standard in said genre and they're lackluster in comparison to newer titles.

Back then, characters like Vegeta or Freeza and their plots were something new in the genre (remember they were created in late 80's/early 90's, when NES graphics were groundbreaking and Michael Jackson was still musically relevant) and people liked them, but now we just know better and see how basic they were and how they lose compared to newer, more complex characters/plots.

So is DB overrated? I don't think so. Sure it sucks now, but you can't deny it ruled the manga world with an iron fist and birthed many of the newer manga.

PS: I don't touch the DBZ anime because I did not watch the English dub/sub, only the Portuguese dub of it, which is so bad it's hilarious.

Nope. But it's fun to poke nostalgia.

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Vengeance

DB is in no way the first action comic lmao. It's simply the one of our generation remembers.

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Numinous

Who said that? Not me.

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Vengeance

Problem is Dragon Ball took elements from several different storys to create what it was. There's nothing original about a villain turned rival or a larger than life tyrant that likes to destroy life. To say it's some type of pioneer is bullshit since manga has existed years before the creation of dragon ball. Japanese manga started up after world war two when the americans invaded. They brought over comics & gave them to the people. The japanese liked them & incorporated their own art & story telling to create what we know as manga today.

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Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

Numinous

And the Bible is just a collection of Jewish, Mesopotamian, Babylonian and many more early Middle East stories and rhetorics, but it still revolutionized the world.

Same deal here, just because DB relied on things made before it doesn't discredit the impact it had at the time and the impact it still has in modern manga.

That's why I marked revolutionizer instead of pioneer.

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Vengeance

So things like Voltron, Gundam, Sailor moon, Devil Man, Astro Boy, Cyborg 009, Casshan, Lupin the 3rd, Fist of the North Star had nothing to do with promoting Japanese anime/manga on a more global scale?

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Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

NeoKakarott023

One thing not taken into consideration is time. We are in different eras than when DB, DBZ were 1st run 'Top of the World' above all. Expectactions weren't what they are now, people weren't as 'specific' as in manga today, and taboo topics and subjects weren't the driving theme for DB. For most of the manga/anime in the beginning one can tell that Akira Toriyama was happy with his creation, let his imagination flow, and didn't have a specific 'ending' for the DB, DBZ warriors, he was just on a journey with his project. This is kinda how I feel about the author of OP, I'd imagine some other mangas are as giving to soo many characters with regard to plot, adding substance, and creating background, but not a lot of shonen type, they generally just want a purpose to get to fighting/battling, and then it generally turns out being who has the biggest rod with regard to artwork, style, and new interesting boom! pow! bangs!

The expectations of DBZ were surpassed IMHO, they were basically 'the next big thing' after the Superman, Hulk, X-Men phase in the world of animation and DBZ did it better than those and other predacessors IMHO. The entire series' basically flowed with the growth of a crew, whereas during the same time span some Marvel & DC characters were within that 'I pop over here and do something', then 'I'll hang over here to fight this Dude', there was an inconsistent timeline for the series in which the passage of a day, or a week, or a year, sometimes meant nothing, that made a lot of 'earlier' things feel 'Tom & Jerry', 'Woody Woodpecker' type episode shit, that never actually linked.

In the 80's people believed much more in heros than today also.

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Numinous

Again, I didn't say anything of the sort, but here's the thing: DB was the one who cleared the trail for those titles in many markets. I know because it was what happened where I live.

Sure, Card Capturing Sakura, Astro Boy and Saber Rider were some anime that premiered here before DB, but only the latter opened the floodgates for anime/manga culture to truly create a steady fandom.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying DB is some flawless manga that competed alone for the reader's attention, because that'd be false, I'm only giving credit where it's due.

So will you stop hitting strawmen, pretty please?

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Kaaaameeeeehhhhhhhh

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On my next post of DRAGON BALL Z!!!!

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