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Old 04-05-2012, 10:29 PM   #136
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxMESTxx View Post
He just used nature to his advantage, which is nowhere near the same.
How in the hell is that not manipulating nature/natural energy.

He used so many fire jutsus to cause an air pressure and temperature change in the skies, creating thunder clouds, that produce lightning, and then he controlled that lightning.

I'll give you that it is not senjutsu in any form that has been defined thus far in this manga, but Sasuke did manipulate nature/natural energy.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:30 AM   #137
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Re: Naruto 581

^Take out the /natural energy in your claims and it's passable. Don't piggyback it onto something that makes sense. This isn't DC.
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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:49 AM   #138
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Special One View Post
Just because Sasuke's style doesn't exactly mimic Orochimaru's, doesn't mean a lot of the attributes that he possessed in Part 2 wasn't a direct result of Orochimaru's tutelage. Orochimaru was Sarutobi's prized pupil, yet Orochimaru and Sarutobi share little to nothing in common in terms of fighting styles. I suppose it was more about maximizing emphasis on what the student was good at.
We only got to see Sarutobi fight once and in that situation, he was forced to sacrifice his life almost immediately to end the fight for Konoha's sake. So, there's no telling how much he learned from Hiruzen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Special One View Post
For example, Orochimaru wanted Sasuke's reflexes sharp, what better way to hone his sharingan then by having Sasuke face 1000 plus shinobi. Surviving that ordeal was an invaluable experience I bet. Sasuke also relied a lot on the cursed seal (so, almost like a Sage Mode) for a good portion of Part 2. What's to say Sasuke's aptitude in that wasn't a direct result of Orochimaru's meddling? Right after Sasuke obtained Mangekyou, he spammed the shit out of it. Makes sense I guess, a lot of the power (cursed seal) that got him up to that point was stripped away, so he had to relearn how to fight with a new power.
I know what Orochimaru did for him and picked my words wisely for that reason. The post I made after yours, I had been typing up in my spare time while doing other things. The 1000 shinobi battle wasn't quite something Sasuke survived so much as he oblitterated. He didn't have a scratch on him and that was while intentionally avoiding killing any of them. Sasuke had gained control of the Level Two Curse Mark against Naruto at the VotE, before even going to Oro, which matched Naruto's one-tailed form. It had nothing on Sage Mode. ALL of Oro's power and the cursed seal were stripped away when Itachi sealed him up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-man123 View Post
summoning jutsu is A rank
The official Databook does not agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
With Kirin, Sasuke makes the conditions.
Not entirely.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v43/c391/5.html

Sasuke needed an Amaterasu forrest fire and 2-3 Great Dragon Fires.
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:58 AM   #139
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
How in the hell is that not manipulating nature/natural energy.
Because he's not actually manipulating natural energy anywhere in that.

Quote:
He used so many fire jutsus to cause an air pressure and temperature change in the skies, creating thunder clouds, that produce lightning, and then he controlled that lightning.
This is what I meant by using it to his advantage. He knew which natural reactions would take place when he was shooting off his fire jutsu, he used that to his advantage.

Quote:
I'll give you that it is not senjutsu in any form that has been defined thus far in this manga, but Sasuke did manipulate nature/natural energy.
No, he really didn't.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:57 AM   #140
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Re: Naruto 581

Jekyl_hide, natural energy =/= natural physics.

Natural energy is akin to chakra, but, instead of being corporeal, it is latent in nature. That's why it requires absorption and control of natural energy to use it, because you're adding a third element of chakra in someone's body (the other two are physical and spiritual energies).

Did any of the procedures Sasuke made use natural energy? No, he had to spend his own chakra to create the conditions for thunder clouds (Amaterasu also helped) and then just used raiton to execute Kirin. No natural energy was required, since an heated up atmosphere forming thunder clouds already happens in real life.




Oh and looksy, another white knight thanking someone judging others with baseless claims and insults (and doesn't know what conjure and unpopular mean and confuses them for summon and ill-received). Got to love their double standards.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:22 AM   #141
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Re: Naruto 581

No, lightning is natural energy. It's also a part of nature. It produces heat, voltage, and amps... all measurements of energy, and natural energy at that.

When Sasuke created the conditions for the lightning, and then controlled the damn thing, that's manipulation.

physics = energy

What the hell do you think physics is... the study energy in laymen's terms.

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Old 04-06-2012, 09:40 AM   #142
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiegel View Post
Let's simply recognize Izanagi and Izanami for what they are, plot devices to further enhance the Uchiha. Nuff said. We should realize that Kishi is always going to do shit like this when the time comes and we should be able to easily predict what it is and when its coming. The simple fact that KYF has been correct on two of his theories twice in a row is evidence enough. Why are some people making a big deal about this? Who the hell knows.
While it is true that they are plot devices, where does EMS fit into all of this? So far we haven't seen EMS power unleashed by anyone in this manga.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:44 AM   #143
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
No, lightning is natural energy. It's also a part of nature. It produces heat, voltage, and amps... all measurements of energy, and natural energy at that.

When Sasuke created the conditions for the lightning, and then controlled the damn thing, that's manipulation.

physics = energy

What the hell do you think physics is... the study energy in laymen's terms.
I'll be more obvious: Natural energy =/= energy found in nature. All natural energy is energy found in nature, but not all energy found in nature is natural energy.

If you still don't find the difference, natural energy has a specific form that allows it to meld with chakra (so it might have similar properties), while energy found in nature has various forms (heat, chemical bonds, electricity, radiation, magnetism, traction, gravity, light, etc).

For example, Sasuke profited on energy in the form of heat to generate energy in the form of electricity. Neither of them are natural energy, but are forms of energy found in nature.

Is this clear enough?

Edit: and physics is the study of natural phenomena related to matter and energy, not just energy.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:50 AM   #144
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post

Is this clear enough?

Simply, no.

I do get what you are saying, and I agree to the part of how not all energy is natural energy.

But heat from a fire is natural energy, regardless of how the fire was created. Electricity from a lightning bolt is natural energy.

In the form of senjutsu, not natural energy.

And let me clarify myself. I said that Sasuke was using nature/natural energy, because fire and lightning are elements of nature and the energy produced by nature. I seriously doubt Sasuke becomes any sage whatsoever.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:21 AM   #145
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
And let me clarify myself. I said that Sasuke was using nature/natural energy, because fire and lightning are elements of nature and the energy produced by nature. I seriously doubt Sasuke becomes any sage whatsoever.
I know you aren't claiming Sasuke will be a sage, but your description of what natural energy is does not correspond with mine (and mest's and SD's).

If heat and electricity can be considered natural energy, then all Katon and Raiton users are able to use natural energy. By my understanding of what natural energy is, that would mean they're practicing senjutsu because they're adding natural energy to their jutsu, which doesn't happen. It is simply the manipulation of the nature of the energy, going from chakra (the mix of physical and spiritual energy) to another form of energy (heat for Katon, electricity for Raiton).

Natural energy (again, by my understanding) is a subform of energy found in nature that sages (and Juugo's clan) can harness and by logic it could be used along with heat and electricity. Although such was never verified, we know that two or more forms of energy can be combined in the Narutoverse, so it could happen.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:56 AM   #146
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Re: Naruto 581

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
I know you aren't claiming Sasuke will be a sage, but your description of what natural energy is does not correspond with mine (and mest's and SD's).

If heat and electricity can be considered natural energy, then all Katon and Raiton users are able to use natural energy. By my understanding of what natural energy is, that would mean they're practicing senjutsu because they're adding natural energy to their jutsu, which doesn't happen. It is simply the manipulation of the nature of the energy, going from chakra (the mix of physical and spiritual energy) to another form of energy (heat for Katon, electricity for Raiton).

Natural energy (again, by my understanding) is a subform of energy found in nature that sages (and Juugo's clan) can harness and by logic it could be used along with heat and electricity. Although such was never verified, we know that two or more forms of energy can be combined in the Narutoverse, so it could happen.
I get what you are saying. We're just on different wavelengths, that is all.

My point is that in that fight, (if memory serves me correct) Sasuke states he was out of chakra, yet he still used kirin.

Now, without Kishi developing this story more, this small bit of evidence would lead me to believe that fuuton and katon users would be able to use the natural states of their elements and control assuming they had mastered that. This opens a whole can of worms, because what about doton and suiton users. Now we're getting into Avatar: The Last Airbender stuff.

I wouldn't have made that statement or used the thought process I have used had it not been stated/implied that Sasuke was out of chakra before he used kirin.

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Old 04-06-2012, 12:22 PM   #147
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
I get what you are saying. We're just on different wavelengths, that is all.

My point is that in that fight, (if memory serves me correct) Sasuke states he was out of chakra, yet he still used kirin.
Ah, I see where the confusion comes from. He (and Itachi) were figuratively speaking, as in Sasuke had very low amounts of chakra. If he literally was out of chakra, he'd die (like Kakashi did).

And, if I remember correctly, the Third Databook says that Kirin requires very little chakra, since it just needs to be shaped and directed at the target (instead of having to form the chakra volume, convert it to electricity via Raiton, shape it and direct it), so Sasuke could pull it off without any third source of energy (as in Natural energy).

Hope that clears up the confusion.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:32 PM   #148
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post

I know what Orochimaru did for him and picked my words wisely for that reason. The post I made after yours, I had been typing up in my spare time while doing other things. The 1000 shinobi battle wasn't quite something Sasuke survived so much as he oblitterated. He didn't have a scratch on him and that was while intentionally avoiding killing any of them. Sasuke had gained control of the Level Two Curse Mark against Naruto at the VotE, before even going to Oro, which matched Naruto's one-tailed form. It had nothing on Sage Mode. ALL of Oro's power and the cursed seal were stripped away when Itachi sealed him up.
Yes, but how was Sasuke able to obliterate 1000 or so shinobi? Orochimaru could have done this on occasion for Sasuke in preparation of preparing Sasuke's body for him.. Sasuke likely developed his own techniques under Orochimaru's tutelage, there's no proof that this isn't true, nor is it unlikely. Considering students don't always use signature techniques of their master. Look at Shikamaru, his skills are mostly clan based, but honing also must've came from Asuma.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:47 PM   #149
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Re: Naruto 581

if lightning is natural energy kakashi and all of the cloud nins introduced can enter sage mode then
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:59 PM   #150
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Re: Naruto 581

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Originally Posted by Tmoore View Post
if lightning is natural energy kakashi and all of the cloud nins introduced can enter sage mode then
There is a dfference between the Natural Energy and the energy that comes from the nature. A ninja with potent chakras can access the Natural Energy, thus becoming a Sage. The energy that comes from the nature it's not subject to augument powers. Anyway, Sasuke becaming a Sage...i don't think so. Kishi cannot simply give Sasuke the Sage Mode, because it requires a huge amount of time to be spent on training( that Sasuke lacks) and it's not necessary. Hell, we haven't seen yet what the EMS can really do and you guys already want Sasuke to be a Sage? Give him a rest, these are his first appearences in the manga from an absence of a year or so.
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