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Old 04-06-2012, 03:08 PM   #151
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu View Post
Kishi cannot simply give Sasuke the Sage Mode, because it requires a huge amount of time to be spent on training( that Sasuke lacks) and it's not necessary. Hell, we haven't seen yet what the EMS can really do and you guys already want Sasuke to be a Sage? Give him a rest, these are his first appearences in the manga from an absence of a year or so.
time flies in the sage world so its possible...however, like you i would like to see the EMS abilities before if at all any sage abilities. fans can be a little anxious about there favorite character abilities...naruto is a sage and now have the powers of almost all the jinks in him yet his fans would love to see him somehow aquire his fathers powers asap...
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:12 PM   #152
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmoore View Post
if lightning is natural energy kakashi and all of the cloud nins introduced can enter sage mode then
*face palm*

lightning, wind, and fire are all events that are produced from and produce energy in the "real" world.

there is a reason why i have used both words: senjutsu and natural energy (or to clarify, the energy of nature).

kishi opened a major plot device with kirin, and thankfully hasn't followed through with it.

people already relate naruto to dragonball z. imagine avatar: the last airbender mixed with dbz.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:40 PM   #153
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
*face palm*

lightning, wind, and fire are all events that are produced from and produce energy in the "real" world.

there is a reason why i have used both words: senjutsu and natural energy (or to clarify, the energy of nature).
Except, like I told you, natural energy has a specific meaning linked to senjutsu, so using it will confuse people, while energy of nature has another that you're using. And...

Quote:
kishi opened a major plot device with kirin, and thankfully hasn't followed through with it.
What plot device? If you mean using nature in its advantage, Gaara used (incredibly incorrect) thermodynamics to neutralize Jokey Boy, for example, so Kirin isn't alone on that.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:50 PM   #154
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
What plot device? If you mean using nature in its advantage, Gaara used (incredibly incorrect) thermodynamics to neutralize Jokey Boy, for example, so Kirin isn't alone on that.

please elaborate, because i'm honestly not getting what you are saying here.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #155
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
please elaborate, because i'm honestly not getting what you are saying here.
Considering Kirin's most unique characteristic is using power that isn't the caster's chakra (as in natural phenomena, like lightning), Gaara's method of ending Jokey Boy also falls under this characteristic, since he used gold that was laying around from his father's jutsu and took advantage of gold's heat absorption properties (highly exaggerated, but that's beside the point) to do so.

In other words, we have a similar process going on: preparation (heating the atmosphere for Sasuke, fighting his father's KKG for Gaara), the natural phenomena (lightning for Sasuke, gold's heat absorption for Gaara), use of the natural phenomena (shaping and directing the lightning for Sasuke, putting gold on Jokey Boy for Gaara) and the result (Kirin for Sasuke, solidifying Jokey Boy for Gaara).

So, considering what I read from the manga and databooks, I don't find what plot device Kirin opened that wasn't used already.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:35 PM   #156
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Considering Kirin's most unique characteristic is using power that isn't the caster's chakra (as in natural phenomena, like lightning), Gaara's method of ending Jokey Boy also falls under this characteristic, since he used gold that was laying around from his father's jutsu and took advantage of gold's heat absorption properties (highly exaggerated, but that's beside the point) to do so.

In other words, we have a similar process going on: preparation (heating the atmosphere for Sasuke, fighting his father's KKG for Gaara), the natural phenomena (lightning for Sasuke, gold's heat absorption for Gaara), use of the natural phenomena (shaping and directing the lightning for Sasuke, putting gold on Jokey Boy for Gaara) and the result (Kirin for Sasuke, solidifying Jokey Boy for Gaara).

So, considering what I read from the manga and databooks, I don't find what plot device Kirin opened that wasn't used already.
I disagree because Sasuke created his conditions, while Gaara did not. Both did capitalize on their situations.

Imo, Kirin is a plot device, due to the fact that it opens the possibility of element bending found in the anime, avatar: the last airbender. The manipulation of one's elemental chakra (the natural state ie: lightning, fire, water, dirt and/or metals, and wind) doesn't belong in this manga imo, at least not at the level of a:tlab. Which is why i'm glad that kishi hasn't developed it further.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:48 PM   #157
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Re: Naruto 581

Now that I remember, in Orochimaru vs Hiruzen one of the ANBU says that the fact Tobirama didn't need already existing water bodies to perform Suiton was admirable. So bending natural elements isn't even a first for Kirin so... I don't know why you're so preoccupied about using nature to aid jutsu, it isn't something new, unique or a non-sequitur to the nature of jutsu.

Edit: and yes, I was wrong to say Gaara prepared the conditions, should have expresses myself better.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:10 PM   #158
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Re: Naruto 581

Even if kishi got all the time in the world to extend Naruto manga with boring chapters, He still need to explain how the snakes are cool with training the guy who intentionally got Manda killed... Sasuke as a sage Definitely won't happen...
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:11 PM   #159
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Re: Naruto 581

I think it would be a given if kishi continued to follow the theme of the legendary 3=naruto, sasuke, sakura it wouldn’t be a far stretch for sasuke to learn how to absorb natural energy (not that he would ever need it at this point). However, I really don’t see kishi doing that at this point as it does nothing in terms of transitioning the manga forward.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:42 AM   #160
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
I disagree because Sasuke created his conditions, while Gaara did not. Both did capitalize on their situations.

Imo, Kirin is a plot device, due to the fact that it opens the possibility of element bending found in the anime, avatar: the last airbender. The manipulation of one's elemental chakra (the natural state ie: lightning, fire, water, dirt and/or metals, and wind) doesn't belong in this manga imo, at least not at the level of a:tlab. Which is why i'm glad that kishi hasn't developed it further.
Sasuke didn't completely set up the himself. Itachi inadvertently helped.

Btw. What somebody would call natural energy irl isn't the same as what somebody would call natural energy in the naruverse

P.M. it's something like teleportation (but not completely) ,the naru and the RL meanings differ
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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems

Last edited by stubborn_d0nkey; 04-07-2012 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:03 PM   #161
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
How in the hell is that not manipulating nature/natural energy.

He used so many fire jutsus to cause an air pressure and temperature change in the skies, creating thunder clouds, that produce lightning, and then he controlled that lightning.

I'll give you that it is not senjutsu in any form that has been defined thus far in this manga, but Sasuke did manipulate nature/natural energy.
Amaretsu was already set and made the conditions 'favorable', Sasuke used his last burst of chakra to increase the amount of heat to make the situation 'perfect' for Kirin, thats all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
No, lightning is natural energy. It's also a part of nature. It produces heat, voltage, and amps... all measurements of energy, and natural energy at that.

When Sasuke created the conditions for the lightning, and then controlled the damn thing, that's manipulation.

physics = energy

What the hell do you think physics is... the study energy in laymen's terms.
The heat caused the creation of the clouds which contained the possibility for lightening, so Sasuke released as fire jutsu and waited. At the point where he can 'feel' the lightening within the clouds, he then can use a very small amount of chakra to simply manipulate a shape, and deliver the mass of electic power to a specific point. Sasuke didn't create the power, it wasn't his, it was the clouds, he merely directed the flow.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:32 PM   #162
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Re: Naruto 581

OMFG...

I said that Sasuke manipulated the energy of nature to create Kirin. And I'm of the belief that Orochimaru had worked with Sasuke to help him create Kirin.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:23 AM   #163
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Re: Naruto 581

You said many things. Too many things.
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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:04 AM   #164
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
OMFG...

I said that Sasuke manipulated the energy of nature to create Kirin. And I'm of the belief that Orochimaru had worked with Sasuke to help him create Kirin.
Dont worry bro some of us got what you said from the get go.. it's others over hinking the simple concept thats the problemb.. yes Sasuke added to the heat that amaterasu was creating and that heat formed clouds.. last time i checked Sasuke doesn't have a cloud making jutsu.. so he "manipulated" a natural energy source-fire- which made clouds and due to his nature affinity which is lightning snesed when the cloud would shoot a bolt out and "manipulated the lightning bolt with shape manipulation and directed it into an attack that hit Itachi.. it's really not that complicated.

And yea I think when he was gonna attack new team 7 and Oro stopped him it probably was kirin that he was gonna use.




On the note that everyone else was talking about about Sasuke being a sage.. it's highly possible..due to tthe new info about Juugo's clan.

Sasuke was compatable with Juugo when he got healed by him when facing killer B and given Juugo's ability to auto absorb natural energy this might have been transferred to Sasuke whichb also might explain his hawk summon from the Danzo fight. Juugo's main ally when talking to nature was birds.. maybe he absorbed the bird affinity from Juggo without having to make a contract right-out remeber jiraya went to Myoboku by accident without having a contact so maybe the same thing happened with Sasuke which would explain the hawk summon.. and a potential for him to have a future sage ability.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:21 AM   #165
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Re: Naruto 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
Dont worry bro some of us got what you said from the get go.. it's others over hinking the simple concept thats the problemb.. yes Sasuke added to the heat that amaterasu was creating and that heat formed clouds.. last time i checked Sasuke doesn't have a cloud making jutsu.. so he "manipulated" a natural energy source-fire- which made clouds and due to his nature affinity which is lightning snesed when the cloud would shoot a bolt out and "manipulated the lightning bolt with shape manipulation and directed it into an attack that hit Itachi.. it's really not that complicated.
And you clearly haven't read what's being discussed. Please do so next time.

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On the note that everyone else was talking about about Sasuke being a sage.. it's highly possible..due to tthe new info about Juugo's clan.

Sasuke was compatable with Juugo when he got healed by him when facing killer B and given Juugo's ability to auto absorb natural energy this might have been transferred to Sasuke whichb also might explain his hawk summon from the Danzo fight. Juugo's main ally when talking to nature was birds.. maybe he absorbed the bird affinity from Juggo without having to make a contract right-out
It is unknown if Juugo has any summoning contract and why he could contact with animals (although absorbing natural energy might have something to do with it, considering Naruto's training), so it's highly improbable Sasuke got his summoning contract that way.

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remeber jiraya went to Myoboku by accident without having a contact so maybe the same thing happened with Sasuke which would explain the hawk summon.. and a potential for him to have a future sage ability.
Except Jiraiya going to Myouboukuzan by accident due to not having a contract was done in the anime. Which isn't canon. Canon-wise, it is unknown how Jiraiya got to Myouboukuzan, so we can't say how that correlates to Sasuke.
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