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Old 06-12-2012, 09:00 AM   #1
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SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

There are 2 jutsu in this manga that completely remove the fun out of any fight. Edo tensei and SusanoO, I'll be focusing on the latter.

One of the most important aspects of a good fight is tension. It's what keeps us on the edge of your seats, and what makes us want to see more. Watching a character pull off a sweet move putting pressure on the opposition, and having the opposition skillfully counter or endure those attacks and come back fighting is what we look forward to in any well executed fight combat wise.

This is where SusanoO comes in to ruin the fucking day. Where Edo Tensei ruins the tension by having 1 side be indestructible ( Making all but sealing techs pointless and not a threat ), SusanoO is a near permanent barrier between the user and incoming attacks, making it possible for the fucker not to move and still be safe.

That just sucks the tension out of any fight. Characters have to pull off all stops just to get past the damn thing, while the user stays in there like nothing is even fucking happening, giving them easy windows of opportunity to counter attack. There is merit in being able to counter an attack with a display of physical might ( reflexes, speed ) and quick thinking. Where is the merit in floating inside a spirit mech that protects you from almost everything due to magical eye balls ?

That is ridiculously cheap and boring. Take the battle at the kage summit as an example. Sasuke was tossed around like a rag doll, but at the end of the day his SusanoO kept him alive against 3 kages ( The ones that fought him while in SusanoO form ). Older, more experienced and powerful shinobi ( Aside from Gaara ) couldn't get past the damn thing, and that was his first time using it.

Fast forward to Sasuke vs Danzou. Most of the damage Sasuke received was self inflicted, due to him overusing MS and quickly losing his eye sight. Danzou had to call a summoning, and use a zilliong SG just to stay afloat. Sasuke barely moved, he stayed in one spot spamming SusanoO. Don't even get me started on the Kabuto encounter, where SusanoO and MS fuckery made it one of the worse fights in the entire series.

Currently Madara is floating several hundred feet in the sky inside a giant SusanoO that 5 of the most powerful characters in the series can't do nothing against. Where is the fun in that ?

So I ask this: Even if you are the most die hard fan of Naruto, how can you get excited about future battles when they will consist of nothing but giant energy constructs flinging attacks at one another ?

Oh, look out, here comes a Bijuu bomb !!! Ah, SusanoO blocked it.

Sweet, SusanoO is about to slash. Bai mountains !!! Oh, can't get through the Kyuubi.


Does that sound exciting to you ? Even if the beginning is a bit more diverse you know it will end like that.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:02 AM   #2
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

I get excited because when Naruto and Sasuke fight each other, their super all-powerful jutsus are going to completely cancel each other out and drain them of all power that the fight will come down to a rasengan-chidori charge.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:23 AM   #3
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

i'm with ACt on this one. i think we'll see naruto have like a million clones, while sasuke spams amerterasu. we'll see sasuke's perfect susanoo go against the ultimate fuuton bijuu bomb. both completely drained except for one more jutsu apiece, we see the chidori/rasengan clash.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:53 AM   #4
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

Well, ACt and j_k already took the words out of my mouth about that, but I'll say something about the power levels status.

I prefer strategic fights way better than straight destruction fights (but, of course, there has to be decent action, Uchiha brothers vs Kabuto was very strategic but the action was poor) and these later fights are all about destruction and that is abhorring in my opinion. What I'm really concerned about is the Juubi fight since it'll be ridiculous destruction all over the place. If the power levels stayed at IoP level, it'd be more enjoyable, but now with Susanoo leveling mountains with just a swing of a blade and meteors crushing down at will... yeah, all flash, no substance in that.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:05 PM   #5
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

I can understand the frustration with the current direction of the manga and I agree the part one fun was with the stategy that was involved in the fights.. especially the hunt for sasuke fights those were great Neji for the win! But those days for the time being are on the shelf. Granted we were in the midst of a war and there were other wars alluded to in the manga and there was a time when things were toned down( when the manga first started) hopefully kishi wont try to keep the rollercoaster going and realize that we need these more intimate smaller battles as well and not everythign needs to be4 handled with a nuke..

Even tho I enjoyed the impact form Madara's Susanoo I hope kishi doesn't feel the need to keep escalating events but allow the story to progress in a natural manner.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:29 PM   #6
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

Agreed. It is boring right now. Powerful jutsu here and there and all sense of Naruto Part I still away in dust.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:31 PM   #7
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

I actually found EMS Sharingan evolving to Rinnengan just as stupid, and awful somehow. Trying to make the Byakugan something, then leaving that shit hanging was bad enough for the special 'eyes'.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:35 PM   #8
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

Susanoo probably wouldn't have been so bad had it had limits, like a time limit or would cause the user extreme fatigue and could only pull it off once for like a few minutes or something. It'd be that Ace in the hole for dire situations, same with the bijuu bomb or whatever super technique that can rival Susanoo.

Or maybe even restrict the jutsu with limits. Take DBZ for example. Goku's ultimate attack you could say is the Spirit Bomb. It requires him to gather enough energy to destroy his enemy, takes time to gather said energy, and time to aim. Susanoo should be something like that where it'd take time to conjure up for use I think. Once you start spamming ridiculous jutsus like that then all the fun is sucked out of the fight formula.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:11 PM   #9
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

honestly, there is potential for the final confrontation between sasuke and naruto. of course we're going to have powerups out the wazoo, but how the fight is handled.... that's the delicate question.

i don't mind madara, sasuke, and naruto having powerups that no other shinobi has, as long as they have reprecussions, like spiegel stated. and in all honesty, so far, every power up that naruto has received, it's had some sort of limitation: sage mode 5 min limit, uber-kurama mode time limit, the frs requires sage mode or kurama mode. once a sharingan user has achieved the ems, from what has been stated, it seems like said user could spam amerterasu and susanoo all the day long, with little to no drawbacks.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:25 PM   #10
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

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Old 06-12-2012, 02:04 PM   #11
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

If you go back to the Itachi/Sasuke vs Kabuto fight ( Yeah, I know ), the only attacks that had any measure of success were sound based ones, because, miraculously, SusanoO doesn't automatically process bad noises and releases them as pleasant music. I wouldn't be surprised if it gained that ability later on. I hope Naruto has a giant boom box blasting Chris Brown to remove SusanoO right away and then gets hit with chakra draining rays from off planet, otherwise this will be seriously lame.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:22 PM   #12
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

I'm really not a fan of sasanoo either... I prefer the shinobi to fight eachother without huge jutsu in the way except the occasional boss summon...sasanoo and narutos new full kyuubi form is boring and lame just sitting around throwing giant energy balls or swinging giant swords....

I enjoy high speed taijutsu/ninjutsu battles, not clunky immobile beasts size battle... IMO, the only to salvage the naruto vs sasuke fight iis if naruto can use his full kyuubi form without being in the kyuubi which acts like barrier like sasanoo.... if he can step out and use his increased power for even greater speed, ninjutsu ect... And if sasuke can find a way to condense a perfect sasanoo to the size of his body so he can still have its ultimate defense, but have four arms to fight with that can be extened at will for high speed taijutsu and still use ninjutsu... like having his sasanoo use a 4 arm chidori attack or something....
If not the final battle will be stupid and just whoever can hulk smash harder winzzzzz............ Spppppppppppppppppppppppp *thumbs down*
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:36 PM   #13
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

Ugh. I really need to decide on a sarcasm font.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:05 PM   #14
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

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Ugh. I really need to decide on a sarcasm font.
Who the hell would mistake that for a serious comment? We all know how much of a letdown Naruto vs Sasuke will be in terms of action enjoyment.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:55 PM   #15
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Re: SusanoO, the final nail on the coffin.

J_h did. And people are treating this all seriously. The point was, it's gonna end like all their fights - chidori and rasengan. The big booms before that mean nothing, so why give a crap about all these overpowered techs when they don't matter. Chidori; Rasengan. Done. The whole fight is pretty well telegraphed.

Of course, it could be a Kyuubi-bomb rasengan and a Susanoo chidori before that. Same shit, different boom.
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