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Old 07-24-2012, 05:42 AM   #31
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Originally Posted by Lord Blackheart View Post
I don't think tobi is shisui. At first I had thought it was really possible, especially with the last chapter to come out. Tobi made those two statements to Kakashi and Guy making some kind of reference of knowing them. Shisui would have been in the same age group as Itachi, Guy and Kakashi too. Shisui body was also never found by Kabuto of all people. This is another plausible sign that he might have something to do with Tobi. What if that is where Sasuke, Orichmaru ect are going? What if their were 3 people that were apart of the coup instead the two we know of right now? Nevertheless, that just one theory.


Tobi = Izuna?

1. They are brothers that competed with each other all the time.

2. Itachi said Madara forced the eyes from Izuna. However, Tobi had mentioned that he gave them up honorably and that the brothers were very close. (Is Itachi or Tobi lying? And, what would they achieve from lying about it other than retaining Izunas honor?)

3. Izuna was said to be killed in battle, yet again, every other character has been summoned back to fight in the 4th war. Even 3 of the Hokages have come back in the manga through EDO. What is interesting about that, Kabuto never took Madara's eyes (izunas) from his dead body before summoning him. Why summon Madara and not Izuna too if they are considered equals?? Itachi came back with his powers and a set of eyes, it's not like Izuna couldn't have eyes transplanted in him too.
Actually only 2 Hokages have come backthrough EDO. 4th and 3rd have been BANISHED....for now
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:37 AM   #32
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Actually only 2 Hokages have come backthrough EDO. 4th and 3rd have been BANISHED....for now
I think I'll have to request Num to get the raw translated, but back during the Orochimaru/Hiruzen fight, numerous people have debated that the third coffin that Hiruzen was able to successful prevent from opening was Yondaime. If this is the case, IMO, horrible writing on Kishi's part.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:58 AM   #33
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
I think I'll have to request Num to get the raw translated, but back during the Orochimaru/Hiruzen fight, numerous people have debated that the third coffin that Hiruzen was able to successful prevent from opening was Yondaime. If this is the case, IMO, horrible writing on Kishi's part.
I don't think it was hiruzen who stopped it. Orochimaru did say something like, for some reason the 4th coffin didn't work (obviosuly due to 4th being already sealed).

To me, it seemed like the 3rd thought 4th will be ressurected and tried to stop it (maybe because lack of knowledge and understanding of the shinigami seal and orochimarus edo tensei). The only thing he did was throw some kunai at the coffin i think.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:05 AM   #34
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Either way its still a better story than twilight.
Most boring and dull movie ever made. I don't know what's so good about it, boring, no excitement at all, rubbish story line (even soaps are far better). It should have just remain as a book. I guess, it only appeals to females only.

p.s. TRUE BLOOD is the best tv series IMO.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:06 AM   #35
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Re: tobi´s identity

Well, JH, I'll try my best to see what the original said, but that'll be hard since the site I get my raws from only has from chapter 461 onwards. But, considering the translation, there's a reasonable explanation: Hiruzen could've thought he stopped the third coffin by himself, since he probably didn't know the ritual just didn't go through (even Orochimaru was unaware of the sealed soul restriction).
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:14 AM   #36
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Well, JH, I'll try my best to see what the original said, but that'll be hard since the site I get my raws from only has from chapter 461 onwards. But, considering the translation, there's a reasonable explanation: Hiruzen could've thought he stopped the third coffin by himself, since he probably didn't know the ritual just didn't go through (even Orochimaru was unaware of the sealed soul restriction).
Very true and possible, but still, a plot hole that has not been "covered" by Kishi for over 10 years now. I would like to think that your statement is the case, so I'm letting this "sleeping dog" lie.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:35 PM   #37
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
Very true and possible, but still, a plot hole that has not been "covered" by Kishi for over 10 years now. I would like to think that your statement is the case, so I'm letting this "sleeping dog" lie.
...it was covered when Tobi blackmailed Kabuto into explaining Edo Tensei. The third coffin was supposed to be the 4th Hokage, but Orochimaru couldn't bring back his soul and the coffin failed. There's no plot hole here, now.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:11 PM   #38
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
...it was covered when Tobi blackmailed Kabuto into explaining Edo Tensei. The third coffin was supposed to be the 4th Hokage, but Orochimaru couldn't bring back his soul and the coffin failed. There's no plot hole here, now.
Congrats on finding a reliable translation I presume. Earlier transcripts didn't state that, but whatever. No plothole... onto the others now.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:48 AM   #39
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
Congrats on finding a reliable translation I presume. Earlier transcripts didn't state that, but whatever. No plothole... onto the others now.
but it still doesn't make sense as to why Kabuto never summoned Izuna. Every super ninja has been summoned except for Madaras equal half. Or maybe he is Tobi
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:11 PM   #40
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Re: tobi´s identity

Why Tobi should be Izuna?

Facts:

- Tobi has huge knowledge about Ninja World, all jutsu and much more
- Tobi can use Uchiha jutsu exclusive
-Strong chakra and power is required to control Nine tails. Only Madara could do that unless his younger brother could do it too. When Madara and Izuna unlocked MS they were equal.
- Tobi switches eyes all the time.

Explanation:
- Madara talking with Kage that Izuna died, is simple to explain. Izuna really died, and Madara took attempt to ressurect Izuna, but he didn't know if it worked. He didn't want to talk about soemthing which wasn't confirmed. Izuna ressurection wasn't confirmed but Izuna death was confirmed according to Madara.

Assumptions:

- Izuna knew about everything happened from Zetsu. Izuna knew about Mito Uzumaki so he studied about Uzumaki abilities and more.
- Madara had spy called Kagami Uchiha, who was Obito father. Izuna knew almost everything about Obito from his father or Obito himself as child.
- Zetsu spied Obito Uchiha so he knew when Obito unlocked sharingan. When Obito went with Kakashi to rescue Rin, Zetsu spied him
- Madara injected Senjuu Hashirama DNA in Izuna dead body, or maybe it was Tobirama Senjuu DNA after his death it would explain Tobi can't use Mokuton.
- Madara, who had small time for Senjuu DNA to merge with his Uchiha DNA so he had only Hashirama face on his chest, because he died too early. In Opposite to Madara ressurected Izuna lived much longer so His Senjuu DNA perfectly merged with his Uchiha DNA allowing him to use perfect Izanagi. While Madara probably couldn't use Izanagi, at least not perfect.
- Madara was hidden for long time while process of injecting Senjuu DNA in his body lasted. It explains why Izuna was hidden and didn't take action for long time while process accepting Senjuu DNA in his body was lasting.
- Danzo confirmed that Senjuu cells are hard to control, so it could take much of time to do it. Izuna and Madara probably have to fight to didn;t let Senjuu DNA take control over them body
-When Obito was crushed and after Kakashi took Obito sharingan and left with Rin. Zetsu took obito other sharingan and gave it Izuna
- Izuna collected many sharingans becuase his eyes with Madara changed in Rinnengan was in Nagato. Izuna tried and tested all sharingans until he got Obito sharingan. He was master of sharingan and once developed sharingan to MS. He fast transformed Obito sharingan to MS and probably even perfected it.
-Madara didn't give Rinnengan to Izuna, because he wanted to give him first Senjuu DNA, and process of merging Senjuu DNA with Uchiha DNA took much time, so he gave it to Nagato Uzumaki. maybe Uchiha and Uzumaki child. Zetsu got order to spy Nagato Uzumaki and inform about this fact to ressurected Izuna.
-Izuna fought with Fourth Hokage as equal and could control Kyuubi at the same time. Minato Namikaze even thought him as Madara so Izuna is best candidate as Madara little brother. When Fourth Hokahe hit Izuna in arm, there was Senjuu DNA same as Zetsu goo, which didn't merge perfectly with Uchiha DNA yet.
- Izuna had reason to take revenge for Madara death. He had grudge against Uchiha clan, as they abandoned Madara. Izuna had grudge against Konoha for Madara death. Izuna watched all crimes and evil happening in this world so he decided to do something with that. Zetsu told him about Moon eye plan, which Madara planned to do. Izuna wanted Moon eye plan to work so he continued Madara plan.
-Izuna as Tobi inspired Yahiko to create Akatsuki organization, so He did it. After Yahiko death, Izuna as Tobi appeared before Nagato who began to recruit Akatsuki members.
- Izuna was hidden again until Senjuu DNA merged completly with Uchiha DNA. When process was completed Akatsuki had one place free after Sasori Death, so Zetsu introduced Tobi<Izuna> in organization.
- Izuna took great interest in Sasuke Uchiha, as he was Uchiha memeber as well as younger brother ,who was in shadow of Itachi, his older brother. Izuna felt bad for Sasuke to be in shadow of older brother. Sasuke reminded Izuna himself when he was younger.
-Izuna even fooled Itachi because he has chakra similliar to him. He has all knowledge as Madara from Zetsu.
- Izuna as Tobi traveled with Deidara to hunt three tailed beast, sanbi. While Tobi was catched by three tailed beast, He was in ghost mode so he survived Deidara bomb.
-Tobi as Izuna survived all Deidara attacks, and he could survive even more. He behave silly to fool everyone to hide his really personality. He was great actor no doubt.
- After Diedara death He finally revealed himself as true leader before readers but took name of Uchiha Madara. However Nagato was still leader for Akatsuki memebers. Only Nagato, Konan, Itachi and Kisame<probably> knew about him being real leader.
- After Nagato death, He was busy prepearing for War while Meeting of 5 Kages was happening. After declaring fourth great war Tobi as Izuna was busy created Zetsu army from bijuu chakra.
- He wanted Sasuke to get stronger so send him on 5 kage meeting. He understands his feelings.
- He wanted Danzo to be dead becuase Danzo killed Kagami Uchiha, his teammate who was spy for Izuna, I mean Tobi.
-Thanks to Hashirama living clone Tobi as Izuna, who is perfectly compatible with Senjuu DNA so can regenerate his body or make his body look younger somehow.
-He retrived Rinnengan both eyes, which was orginally his<Izuna> eyes ,from Nagato corpse. In Tobi vs Konan fight he used Izanagi which let him avoid death. It supports my theory that he mastered Izanagi.
-He saw Hashirama Senjuu in Naruto because as Izuna he met Hashirama for sure in battle.
- In short time He was able to use Rinnegan, probably Rinnengan paths as well because it was his eyes orginally.
- Izuna knew Madara personally so he could fool everyone behaving as him.
- Izuna planned to get Rinnengan, master using these eyes and then ressurect his brother but Kabuto appeared before and broke his plan by ressurecting Uchiha Madara, his older brother with Edo Tensei.
-Izuna wasn't afraid that Madara wanted to kill him or something. First reason he didn't want to fight him, second reason was he was afraid Kabuto will control Madara and force him to fight Tobi as Izuna.
- While telling Sasuke about everything he gripped his clothes when he mentioned about Izuna<himself> giving willingly brother eyes and die after.
He wasn't mad for Madara but he was sentimantal about his death and past.
- When He met Naruto and Killer bee, he told that he is nobody and don't want to anybody. He was forgotten by Ninja World, so he was nobody. He only care about Moon eye plan to be realised, because his brother Madara sacrificed many things to do it, besides Izuna himself watched corrupted Ninja World, so he decided it was only way to create peace.
-Izuna as Tobi know everything about Obito, which I explained in Kagami <obito father> as spy. He know about Kakashi regrets and personal actions thanks to Zetsu who spied Kakashi all time, maybe for Izuna to get other Obito eye as well.
- Izuna was ressurected with no eyes via Rinne Tensei, so that why he collected these sharingans.
- I think Tobi was using Obito Sharingan almost all time. Tobi as Izuna has minimal drain using sharingan. Kakashi can use kamui only when he has Mangenkyou sharingan activated, so Tobi probably use Space time Ninjutsu only when he has Mangenkyou sharingan. Izuna mastered MS so he can use efficently as Obito would never use probably. He has Senjuu DNA in himself and even perfectly merged so he can use Space time Ninjutsu as much as he can, because Senjuu cells are healling Mangenkyou sharingan bad side effects.
- Tobi as Izuna's chakra amount is easy to epxlain. He has probably great amount of chakra but below Naruto own , Kisame and Nagato, but Senjuu cells accelerate procces of chakra restoring, so He looks like has infinite chakra. Besides mastery of sharingan and great mastery over Senjuu and Uchiha techniques, DNA let him for minimal chakra using.


[B]Summary: I know that this is great wall of text and in random order, but I hope someone read it. I hate Obito being Tobi idea, there is so much plot holes, inaccuracies that it isn't even funny. Please Kishi make him Izuna, I hope I covered all plot holes, facts with Tobi being Izuna.
[B]

If you want to know even more please read my prediction with number 600 in thread named: "598 predicitons/spoilers". I hope I convinced you people and Kishi himself<lol> to Tobi being Izuna.

If you have any questions or doubts, just please wirite about them and I try to explain them.

Tob being Izuna would be epic. Sorry for my bad english or any grammar mistakes. I will try later to improve my post, but for now I left it in this form.

Now come at me Tobito fans, because I made Izuna more better candidate than Obito.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:22 PM   #41
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Re: tobi´s identity

But the databook#3 confirmed izuna is dead!!!! So how could he be tobi if he is dead???
Although I suppose kishi could make an ass pull and have Izuna resurrected, but then what was the point of confirming his death instead of leaving it a mystery??? I think Izuna is definitely not tobi... IMO....
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #42
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Re: tobi´s identity

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But the databook#3 confirmed izuna is dead!!!! So how could he be tobi if he is dead???
Although I suppose kishi could make an ass pull and have Izuna resurrected, but then what was the point of confirming his death instead of leaving it a mystery??? I think Izuna is definitely not tobi... IMO....

I ASSUME THAT IZUNA WAS RESSURECTED BY MADARA UCHIHA VIA RINNE TENSEI, It could explain Madara death, and why Izuna collected sharingans, because he didn't have eyes. In opposite to Edo Tensei, which summon you in state which you was before death, Rinne Tensei only ressurect your soul and put in your real body.

About age issue, simple. Izuna real body was no aging because he died, so Madara took his body and well conserved it. When Izuna was ressurected his body was in same state as when he died, I means young, or it could be effect of Senjuu DNA in body or both. Nevertheles it could explain why Tobi looked so young when he fights with fourth hokage.

You know someone could say that. First please read all mu post, so it is explained that He was ressurected by Madara via Rinne Tensei. Second It was confirmed from Madara point that Izuna, his younger brother is dead. Why it can be that I explained in my post. Madara prepared everything to ressurect his brother, earlier collecting all sharingans in Uchiha Massacre, injecting Senjuu DNA in Izuna dead body, then he used technique but he died before he could check if it worked. Third when Madara was ressurected via Edo Tensei and Kabuto told him: "I am his assistant", then Madara assumed that "it has to be his work", he probably meant Izuna.

About Madara and Tsunade speech, I can explain it simple. Madara doesn't know for sure that this someone, who's Kabuto is assitant must be Izuna. It could someone other and Rinne Tensei could didn't work at all, that why when he talks with Tsunade he only mentions that Izuna is dead, because he died and it was confirmed for Madara himself. He didn't want talk about assumptions that Izuna is maybe alive, or Kishi didn't want to reveal it, becuase we could know Tobi is Izuna or he simply didn;t want Kage to know this.

I think I explained everything, and in my previous post, you can find his connection to Obito by Kagami Uchiha<Obito father>, who was Madara spy - I know this is assumption, but possible, it could explain why Zetsu spied Obito, Why Izuna wanted Danzo dead, because he discovered that Kagami is spy, so he killed him. I could explain why Sasuke was so important to Izuna, because he see him as younger image of himself. He uderstands him perfectly as Sasuke had to live in shadow Of Itachi, older brother .Izuna had to live in shadow of Madara, older brother.

I even explained why Izuna would know so much about Obito, becuase his father was spy working for Izuna. Besides it could be sentimental that Izuna saw something in Obito which took his attention, so he ordered Zetsu to spy Obito in time of war. Maybe Obito sharingan special power was so much important that thanks to it He took Obito name but with changed letter or it could be as repect for Second Hokage, Tobirama Senjuu who lived in shadow of older brother Hashirama Senjuu.

I explained about Madara and Tsunade speech, but you mentioned Databook, hm maybe Kishi didn't plan everything from begining, so didn't have idea about that he could make Tobi is Izuna.

I can cover all plotgholes, doubts so I think Izuna is best candidate to be Tobi, far better than Obito or other.

Now come at me, and write about your doubts or holes in my thinkings I will explain all, try it
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:47 PM   #43
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Re: tobi´s identity

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash
But the databook#3 confirmed izuna is dead!!!! So how could he be tobi if he is dead???
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:21 PM   #44
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Re: tobi´s identity

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I ASSUME THAT IZUNA WAS RESSURECTED BY MADARA UCHIHA VIA RINNE TENSEI, It could explain Madara death, and why Izuna collected sharingans, because he didn't have eyes. In opposite to Edo Tensei, which summon you in state which you was before death, Rinne Tensei only ressurect your soul and put in your real body.
How could madara of used Rinne Tensai to revive His younger brother Izuna when he never had the RG Himself... Madara claims to have awakened the RG right before his death, but because of the circumstanes of his death, tobi not having the RG instead of nagato, ect...
Its more likely that madara was referring to the RG of nagato's as "His eyes" which is supported by tobi's comment that He gave nagato the RG thus the eyes are his to take as his own doujutsu... Tobi stated this as Madara uchiha to Konan... Here..http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/509/4

How could madara of known about Nagato as the person with the RG who was supposed to revive him if he died reviving Izuna before the yes were ever implanted in anyone??? Makes no sense....

IMO....

:With there being only one RG, and Nagato being the one Who has it...

:And Since tobi, someone who also has hashirama's cells implanted to use his power, which makes his capable of using the RG with Rinne Tensai as well which tobi says he can do so its canon he could... ("at this point it would be OK even if I kill him"...
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/571/11
With the power of the RG's rinne tensai, like kabuto was also going to do... Tobi planned on killing naruto the reviving him in order to capture him...)

:Hashirama's chakra (power of the younger sage's son like the Uzumaki's are as well) shown being the power that turns the MS/EMS into the RG...

If tobi was capable of using the RG to revive madara, but nagato was still the one who had it after all... Clearly madara gave nagato either his EMS eyes or his old Original MS eyes which added with the power of an Uzumaki (other descendant of the younger son's powerful body and chakra inherited from the RS from the juubi) with the rare powerful chakra capable of suppressing the kyuubi only seen before with Mito and kushina...
The rare Uzumaki power added with the MS/EMS created the RG... Just as the rare Senju power of hashirama added with the EMS in madara created the RG within him as well...

So madara never actually had the RG, but awakened the eyes within Nagato as his own because they were originally his EMS or MS eyes, thus why nagato's eyes are his and why he said "I awakened these eyes (RG) right before my death"... despite nagato having the only RG eyes....

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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:39 PM   #45
Human Rasengan
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Re: tobi´s identity

Tobi is Obito.. it's obvious same jutsu as kakashi then the obviouslpictures http://www.mangapanda.com/93-248-16/...apter-243.html and http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/597/6
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE
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