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Old 09-07-2012, 01:40 PM   #1
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Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

The title is self explanatory...


I will post my "Obito is a zetsu body that is soulless, driven by instinct, but there actually does seem to be someone else" theory...

and here we go...

1). Tobito having no scars or showing any trauma from being crushed, having zetsu material for a body and being able to use the same zetsu material to replace limbs and heal himself... The only marks he has on him is the obvious pattern of kamui on his face that is obviously caused by kamui itself warping his face from it being so close to the eye that sucking things in an out of time and space...
All this suggest that the Obito we are seeing is not "actually" obito at all... Thus his comment "whether *I* survived does not mater"...
He said that because he, obito, the person is dead and gone... What is left is obito's body and it's overwhelming instinct to "protect Rin"... also, obito's body with out a soul is merely a "shell"... ANd thus tobito's comment "I am a shell of my former self.." there is no one home... he is just a body without a soul... just obito's memories and instincts...

Look at the panels that show this and draw your own conclusion...

[IMG][/IMG]


2). What obito is; is nothing more then a grown body just like hashirama's was that uses zetsu material... it has no mind consciousness (soul)... hashirama's zetsu body was put into the zetsu flower to give them mokuton abilities and yamato was put in it too to increase that power even more...
Yes, obito being grown makes perfect sense considering he has no actual damage to him other then the warping of his face by kamui...

[IMG][/IMG]

3). There is someone else IMO... Although obito may just be his body acting on it's own, but I think it could also be under someones control if not...

When tobito captured fuu and torune, they were put into the kamui dimension when sasuke and karin already were because tobito sucked them up to keep them from being captured by the kages and underlings..
However, fuu and torune were not there with sasuke and karin... They were nowhere to be found despite being sucked into there...
And what makes it even ore suspicious is the fact tobito calimed that he cast an illusion on them right after he captured them and even tied up their hands... Yet, tobito did not even see fuu and torune in the kamui dimension at all much less cast a genjutsu on them...
All tobi did was get sasuke and karin to fight danzou, sit and watch the fight, get danzou's bdoy back to his lab, leave the lab to replace his arm and cloak, then come back to get sasuke and go right back to the hide out to implant itachi's eyes...

Not only were fuu and torune not there in the dimension, Tobito could not of put the genjutsu on fuu and torune as well as tied up their hands right after considering he never had time to do it...
SO then someone else did, somewhere else... It must be the person who is controlling obito's body or working with it...

Not to mention tobito is not known for is genjutsu ability... Just his ninjutsu ability... So it must be the tobi who was controlling yagura who fuu and torune got sent to; to cast a genjutsu on then and tie them up...

[IMG][/IMG]


CONCLUSION: OBITO BEING DEAD AND NOTHING MORE THEN A ZETSU MATERIAL GROWN BODY THAT SURVIVES OFF OF INSTINCTS AND MEMORIES IS VERY LIKELY... tHE MANGA SUGGEST IT AND WILL LIKELY BE WHY OBITO IS DOING ALL THIS...
trying TO CHANGE REALITY TO REVIVE RIN INTO A WORLD WHERE THERE IS NO CHANCE OF HER BEING KILLED... AND REVIVING HER WITH EDO TENSAI...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 09-07-2012, 02:15 PM   #2
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

It's cute that he's learn to insert images and still manage to show the [img] code around it.

That said, one point - why do you assume that the other dimension is small that when Sasuke and Karin are sucked into it the other two chumps would be visible? For all we know, it mirrors the size of the regular dimension and Tobi can cut through to different spots.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:32 PM   #3
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

I don't recall seeing those blocks in the dimension when him and Naruto's clone are in it, we don't really know how big that dimension is. There was also plenty of time to genjutsu them between the Danzo fight and when we see them again if he didn't just do it while Danzi and Sasuke were fighting.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:10 PM   #4
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

Parts I like, certain parts like his scars, Icve said so myself.
However, how you have concluded that Tobito did not genjutsu Fuu and Torune into his dimension, is beyond me.

Lol so because Sasuke didnt see them there when he was in there with him, you're saying it didn't happen? I'm flabbergasted for real. So what precede it don't count? We SAW Tobito warp all of them, we SAW him bring out all of them, and we SAW Fuu and Torune under a genjutsu/under his spell. So OBVIOUSLY you are wrong and should never have claimed it.

That dimension is onviously bigger than what we know. That's all
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:22 PM   #5
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACt View Post
It's cute that he's learn to insert images and still manage to show the [img] code around it.

That said, one point - why do you assume that the other dimension is small that when Sasuke and Karin are sucked into it the other two chumps would be visible? For all we know, it mirrors the size of the regular dimension and Tobi can cut through to different spots.
Valid point...

However, how could tobi control where he or other things go in that dimension... Everything thus far has gone to the white box place which is not that big... SO if sasuke and karin are in there and so are fuu and torune... they are likely to hear each other, if not see each other in the area... Yet fuu and torune were nowhere to be found at all...

and what is worse is how could tobi put fuu and torune in an illusion as well as tie up their hands right after he captured them... seeing as how he was too busy dealing with sasuke, danzou, ect ect... It is not possible... someone else had to of done it... Probably the one with the genjutsu ability that controlled the mizukage.....

@minato uchiha:
I claim tobi did not suck fuu and torune into his kamui dimension where sasuke and karin already wer because they were not there... the dimension is not that big and tobi has only shown the ability to transfer people and things to the small white box area, nowhere else... So if fuu and torune were there then how come sasuke or karin did not see or hear them in that small area...

Or are you saying everybody just sat silently not moving around because you need a scenario where nobody can notice each other's presence... Oh wait, karin is a sensor... she would have sensed fuu and torune in such a small area... that takes care of that then...

And I claimed that tobito did not put fuu and torune under a genjutsu and tie them up right after he captured them because he did not!!! You know what tobi did right after he captured those two... he went into the very same dimension to fetch sasuke to fight danzou... meaning tobito could not of done it... do not ask me why I claim things when you yourself did not even try to counter this point with anything other then a baseless claim of "he did so that is that"...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

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Old 09-07-2012, 05:36 PM   #6
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
However, how could tobi control where he or other things go in that dimension...
Because it's his dimension.

Quote:
and what is worse is how could tobi put fuu and torune in an illusion as well as tie up their hands right after he captured them... seeing as how he was too busy dealing with sasuke, danzou, ect ect... It is not possible... someone else had to of done it...
How do you know it's not possible? How do you know that he didn't warp them into the Kamui dimension, appear there with them, place them under the genjutsu, and then tie their hands?

Also, do remember that when Tobi was dealing with Torune and Fuu, Danzo wasn't fighting because he had to remove the seals on his arm. Not to mention that Tobi released Sasuke shortly after Tobi fought Torune and Fuu, so Tobi didn't have to deal with Danzo. Also, at the time that Sasuke and Danzo were fighting, Tobi was sitting back and watching.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:53 PM   #7
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

"Having fun here eh Obito?" - Madara Uchiha.

The reason he said "im a shell of my former self" was because he no longer is the person he was before. Hes lost his hope and thats why he created a new identity for himself. Tobi. He doesnt even have a vendetta against Kakashi...

Kakashis breaking his proimise is just what triggered his hate for the world and then Madara pushed him towards it just how Tobi pushed Sasuke towards hating Konoha. He doesnt have any connection to this world anymore and is "no one: . If he did, he'd wanna kill Kakashi but the countless times hes seen Kakashi,he has no interest in him.

/endthread
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:15 PM   #8
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Because it's his dimension.
what kind of answer is that??? It is kakashi's too yet he has no control where anything goes either... And every time we see tobi transfer something, it is to the same white boxes area with kamui... never anywhere else... so he has limited control as to where in that area something is sent I suppose... judging by his past transfers...

Quote:
How do you know it's not possible? How do you know that he didn't warp them into the Kamui dimension, appear there with them, place them under the genjutsu, and then tie their hands?
Because he didn't... He was shown warping to sasuke and karin when he was finished warping them... and even if somehow he did, Karin should have sensed them in that area making a comment about three more chakra signatures...

Also, do remember that when Tobi was dealing with Torune and Fuu, Danzo wasn't fighting because he had to remove the seals on his arm. Not to mention that Tobi released Sasuke shortly after Tobi fought Torune and Fuu, so Tobi didn't have to deal with Danzo. Also, at the time that Sasuke and Danzo were fighting, Tobi was sitting back and watching.[/QUOTE]

I know... I just do not see how tobi could have done what he claimed considering what we know he actually did... warp to sasuke, warp them all out to fight danzou, watch the fight, ect ect....
I think someone else had to of done it for him or he lied about when he did it...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:43 PM   #9
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

Because Kakashi doesn't have access to that dimension like Tobito does. It's a sharingan haxx where the eye Tobito has can put himself and other people into different dimensions, while Kakashi's eye can send other object to a different dimension. I'm the most unschooled person when it comes to keeping track of all this sharingan crap, but even I know one eye has one haxx the other has another haxx.

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Old 09-07-2012, 06:49 PM   #10
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

You say watch the fight like he can't be intangible in the "real" dimension while jerking off in the other

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Old 09-07-2012, 06:56 PM   #11
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
what kind of answer is that???
A better one than you could ever come up with. It makes the most sense, has the least room for error, and doesn't have this contrived view that is warped to the side of delusion.

Quote:
It is kakashi's too yet he has no control where anything goes either... And every time we see tobi transfer something, it is to the same white boxes area with kamui... never anywhere else... so he has limited control as to where in that area something is sent I suppose... judging by his past transfers...
Kakashi doesn't have the ability to transport himself to that dimension. All he trained his Kamui for was to use as an offensive technique.

Quote:
Because he didn't...
How do you know? Was it ever shown? My explanation is far more plausible than "there has to be a 3rd person with the ability to transport to a dimension shared by the ability of TWO EYES".

Quote:
He was shown warping to sasuke and karin when he was finished warping them...
And you know how much time passed...how?

Quote:
and even if somehow he did, Karin should have sensed them in that area making a comment about three more chakra signatures...
She was a little busy with healing Sasuke. Her maximum distance for sensing chakra is 10 miles, but she has to put all of her focus into it. We don't know how big that dimension is.

Quote:
I know... I just do not see how tobi could have done what he claimed considering what we know he actually did... warp to sasuke, warp them all out to fight danzou, watch the fight, ect ect....
You don't see how it is possible for a guy that managed to completely control a jink in full sync with their bijuu to warp 2 lackeys into another dimension, warp himself into said dimension (a feat he does in every battle), and place them under a genjutsu to subdue them before binding their hands, all in about a minute? The guy uses that dimension to travel vast distances faster than Zetsu traveling through the ground (at the speed of light according to plant boy).

Quote:
I think someone else had to of done it for him or he lied about when he did it...
Because a 3rd person with the ability to access a dimension unique to a pair of eyes is far more plausible than Obito doing it himself.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:51 PM   #12
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post

Kakashi doesn't have the ability to transport himself to that dimension. All he trained his Kamui for was to use as an offensive technique.
Obviously, he trained his kamui for what it is capable of. I don't think both eye techniques are identical. We clearly can see the differences between them both, from what you said, I think the left eye has the ability to transport and others/ and being intangible, whereas the right eye(kakashi's) has the ability to go offensive transport something from long distance, while focusing on to something external. If kakashi were to transport himself, he has to look at himself to transport himself to the other dimension.

That brings another question, can kakashi make a clone and transport his original or clone to the other dimension using it on himself.

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Old 09-07-2012, 08:17 PM   #13
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

He transported Naruto's clone do I don't see why not, he hasn't shown the ability to bring things back from that dimension from what I've seen so I don't see him transporting himself, he's also not supposed to have the chakra levels to do it too much but Kishi decided to say fuck that and have him use enough chakra to "rampage" the 7 swordsman as well use Kamui three times ( at least that's all I remember)
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:56 PM   #14
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Valid point...

Quote:
However, how could tobi control where he or other things go in that dimension... Everything thus far has gone to the white box place which is not that big... SO if sasuke and karin are in there and so are fuu and torune... they are likely to hear each other, if not see each other in the area... Yet fuu and torune were nowhere to be found at all...
The same way he can control where he comes out from.
And what do you mean the dimention is not that big, how can you judge the size of a wall-less dimention from one panel, or do you think the size of a panel is the actual size of a location?

Quote:
and what is worse is how could tobi put fuu and torune in an illusion as well as tie up their hands right after he captured them... seeing as how he was too busy dealing with sasuke, danzou, ect ect... It is not possible... someone else had to of done it... Probably the one with the genjutsu ability that controlled the mizukage.....
He warped them in, pt them in illusion tied them up(doesn't take too long), goes to where sasuke is in the dimension and brings him and karin out.simple.

Quote:
@minato uchiha:
I claim tobi did not suck fuu and torune into his kamui dimension where sasuke and karin already wer because they were not there... the dimension is not that big and tobi has only shown the ability to transfer people and things to the small white box area, nowhere else... So if fuu and torune were there then how come sasuke or karin did not see or hear them in that small area...

Or are you saying everybody just sat silently not moving around because you need a scenario where nobody can notice each other's presence... Oh wait, karin is a sensor... she would have sensed fuu and torune in such a small area... that takes care of that then...
How many times has he taken anybody to the white box place? I only know of one occasion Sasuke and karen. Yet you make it sound like we see that dimention every time warps things..... actually how many things has tobi warped in, save sasuke n karen and danzous guards and danzou, and how many times was the white box dimension shown in this situations.

And I claimed that tobito did not put fuu and torune under a genjutsu and tie them up right after he captured them because he did not!!! You know what tobi did right after he captured those two... he went into the very same dimension to fetch sasuke to fight danzou... meaning tobito could not of done it... do not ask me why I claim things when you yourself did not even try to counter this point with anything other then a baseless claim of "he did so that is that"...
Read my replies.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:51 PM   #15
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Re: Tobi is obito's memories and instincts

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
A better one than you could ever come up with. It makes the most sense, has the least room for error, and doesn't have this contrived view that is warped to the side of delusion.
Al I read here was... B-O-O-H-O-O

Better then you did, mehhhhh spppp!!!! Lol, you did not give a good explanation just a random answer that proves nothing...

Quote:
Kakashi doesn't have the ability to transport himself to that dimension. All he trained his Kamui for was to use as an offensive technique.
Wrong, kakashi's kamui is developed as a distanced transfer jutsu as opposed to obito's which is not... However, both can be used for offense and Defense...
Still, being able to transfer himself is irrelevant considering he can transfer anything else.....

Quote:
How do you know? Was it ever shown? My explanation is far more plausible than "there has to be a 3rd person with the ability to transport to a dimension shared by the ability of TWO EYES".
Do what?? My theory is that there is someone is the kamui dimension that is controlling obito's zetsu body, not having the same kamui jutsu lol... If you are going to argue against my theory at least learn what it is about first lol...

Quote:
And you know how much time passed...how?
It is four pages later in the same chapter right after naruto's BS was over that was happening at the same time this was going on, thus no time at all should have passed... The moment tobi sucked up Fuu, leaving danzou on his own... tobi fetched karin and sasuke to battle danzou... yet fuu and torune who he just sucked into his dimension were nowhere to be seen or heard...
Karin, a sensor of the highest level sensed no other people in their either so something else happened to them obviously....



Quote:
She was a little busy with healing Sasuke. Her maximum distance for sensing chakra is 10 miles, but she has to put all of her focus into it. We don't know how big that dimension is.
Your kidding right... That box area is not even a mile long and yet you think karin, who was already done healing sasuke when tobi arrived, could not of sensed two new chakra signatures in that small area...
How is that plausible exactly???

Quote:
You don't see how it is possible for a guy that managed to completely control a jink in full sync with their bijuu to warp 2 lackeys into another dimension, warp himself into said dimension (a feat he does in every battle), and place them under a genjutsu to subdue them before binding their hands, all in about a minute? The guy uses that dimension to travel vast distances faster than Zetsu traveling through the ground (at the speed of light according to plant boy).
Except that tobi did not have a minute to do that, thus he could'nt have done it... Tobi immediately went to fetch sasuke and karin after sucking up fuu and torune...
If tobi had done what you said then karin would have sensed tobi entering the dimension before, then reentering again to travel to where sasuke and karin are... However, it did not happen otherwise karin would have said something if not think it...

Quote:
Because a 3rd person with the ability to access a dimension unique to a pair of eyes is far more plausible than Obito doing it himself.
Again, the 3rd person is controlling obito's zetsu body, nothing else... it could be obito himself just crippled as shit with a regular SG... Or someone else...

Anyways, here is the timeline...

The start of their battle is here...
[IMG][/IMG]

WHere gaara and naruto leave off...
[IMG][/IMG]

No time passed in the fight, it just continued...
Where the battle continues...
[IMG][/IMG]

WHere the battle with fuu and torune end after they are sucked up...
[IMG][/IMG]

Page after this^^^^
WHere Gaara and naruto continue, no time has passed between them just a chapter for us....
[IMG][/IMG]

Then right after naruto and gaara's thing...
Tobi's fight with danzou continues, with no time passing for them, just us, which is why he could not of done anything with fuu and torune after he sucked them up...
Shown here (limit of six pics per post so I have to use a link..)
http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/475/15




See, no time is passing between the battle with tobi and the convo with naruto... they are going on at the exact same time which is why when one switches to the other, the other stops and the other continues...

So when tobi was done with fuu and torune and it switched to naruto and garra again... nothing was still going on with tobi... it stopped to allow the naruto convo that was simultaneously going on to continue... so when it switched backed to tobi, it continued where tobi left off meaning he went directly to sasuke and karin after sucking up fuu...
therefore there was no time for tobi himself to put fuu and torune in a genjutsu and tie up their hands...

See, the timeline proves it...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

Last edited by Konnaha_yellow_flash; 09-11-2012 at 01:16 PM.
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