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Old 08-29-2012, 09:32 AM   #61
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Re: Naruto_599

so after this i can see that RIN = ZETSU
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:32 AM   #62
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Re: Naruto_599

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
@vishnu

I seriously doubt this is "it" as far as Tobi being Obito.

@FanOfkishimoto
As stated by veng in your thread not to bash you, the Japanese written language has no f'n resemblance to the English written language. Get that through you thick skull.
I thought of that too, but even if he is actually Obito not a possesed body or some shit like that, i'm content. I read this manga since i was a brat, over the time my expectations went higher, but now as I said: i respect his work and the fact that he managed to keep us reading it for such a long time. I repeat: i was never a fan of Tobi=Obito...but that's that.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:39 AM   #63
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Re: Naruto_599

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I thought of that too, but even if he is actually Obito not a possesed body or some shit like that, i'm content. I read this manga since i was a brat, over the time my expectations went higher, but now as I said: i respect his work and the fact that he managed to keep us reading it for such a long time. I repeat: i was never a fan of Tobi=Obito...but that's that.
This is exactly how I took this chapter.

Instead of being angry at Kishi for making this; thank him for keeping you interested for so long.

That's how I see it.
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So...first of all: FUCK YOU KYF ! And your Shisui theories.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:43 AM   #64
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Re: Naruto_599

@vishnu

And I'm not going to fault you for that. That is how you feel. My beef isn't necessarily that Tobi is Obito. My beef is all the plot holes with no explanation. All of the inconsistencies.

I don't take this manga as seriously as some others do. I try to take it at face value. It's one of the reasons why I don't jump on KYF nowhere near as much as just about everyone else.

But as a fan, it's frustrating to see what Naruto has become, especially knowing what it was. Like you (at least I think), I'm going to finish this thing when that happens if I'm still alive (assuming Kishimoto lives long enough to finish it as well).
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:44 AM   #65
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Re: Naruto_599

From a writers point of view, he had us on the prediction trail ever since he introduce this guy so long ago.
Tobi being Obito, i smell 10,000 plots here. Kishi is not known for giving us buttered bread with anything like this, so even if it is Obito, i say its not Obito, Obito body but its some one else, some one old very old since a: Madara knows who Tobi really is, b: Kisame knows who Tobi really is.
So all in all, Kishi trolled us hard on this one but if he don't make him the explanations right at 600 i swear, am flying to japan just to shoot him.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:44 AM   #66
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Re: Naruto_599

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Originally Posted by Vishnu View Post
So...first of all: FUCK YOU KYF ! And your Shisui theories. I hope that this is the end for them.
QFT.

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And i have reached a conclusion: we need to stop being so critical. It's a shounen manga afterall.
Sorry, I cannot concur with this. The genre does not matter, this manga showed a lot of promise in Part I with good writing, characterization and non-cliché aesops and now we have such a shitty low, it just is inexcusable.

If Naruto as a manga was this crappy since the beginning, I think nobody would even care about Tobi being Obito, it'd fit right in. But no, it's because it was probably one of the best manga in its beginning (I dare say better than early One Piece) makes this development a betrayal to those who read and aren't brain dead enough to not notice all the glaring discrepancies, copy-pasted plots and downright absurdity of it all.

Talking about One Piece, it also had its low points, being Foxy Pirates Arc the already alluded example of it, and many fans won't even talk about it outside Aokiji's introduction. Some even say it was crappy writing by Oda's part, and I concede the point, however it has so little bearing in the overall plot that it can be entirely disregarded. Also, Oda pretty much made up for it with the consequent Water 7 and Whitebeard's War sagas.

Kishimoto has no such leeways. He made pretty much threw to the trashcan one of the two (three, if you consider Sasuke) remaining villains in what could very be the last arc before the epilogue. No writer worth of his salt does such a massacre to his plot in the climax.

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It's not about being a fan or a fanatic, it's about my respect for his work. I know that many of you will bash me for this, but even though i was never a supporter of Tobi=Obito theory, i'm content with this result.
I'll not bash you for it, because you indicated why you're content with it with a valid reason, not for self-vindication and to act like a feces-throwing baboon like some in this forum.

I wouldn't be on the same basis, but different strokes for different folks. But let it be clear, I do respect Kishimoto's work pretty much until the Child of Prophecy fiasco, after that is when I feel Kishimoto became a crappy writer that puts his Part I self to shame.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #67
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Re: Naruto_599

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
@vishnu

And I'm not going to fault you for that. That is how you feel. My beef isn't necessarily that Tobi is Obito. My beef is all the plot holes with no explanation. All of the inconsistencies.
My thoughts exactly, and the impact of Obito's actions on Kakashi's personality during the gaiden.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:50 AM   #68
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Re: Naruto_599

Numinous alot of writers are known to do to this, in literature its called give them what they want then twist it around so much that its not what they expected, from the very title of the chapter we knew it was Obitio, but we have no explanations no, nothing really. That is how Kishi is, Naruto has the must suspense in any manga, so he has his downs and his ups, but for this i will say it is better we judge when we have an explanation since there was not talking in this.

Edit: The Gaiden was just a filler, not much thought went into that so we must not refer to it while in the main series, it was just something to keep us waiting for NS release.

Last edited by Leone; 08-29-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:52 AM   #69
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Re: Naruto_599

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
QFT.



Sorry, I cannot concur with this. The genre does not matter, this manga showed a lot of promise in Part I with good writing, characterization and non-cliché aesops and now we have such a shitty low, it just is inexcusable.

If Naruto as a manga was this crappy since the beginning, I think nobody would even care about Tobi being Obito, it'd fit right in. But no, it's because it was probably one of the best manga in its beginning (I dare say better than early One Piece) makes this development a betrayal to those who read and aren't brain dead enough to not notice all the glaring discrepancies, copy-pasted plots and downright absurdity of it all.

Talking about One Piece, it also had its low points, being Foxy Pirates Arc the already alluded example of it, and many fans won't even talk about it outside Aokiji's introduction. Some even say it was crappy writing by Oda's part, and I concede the point, however it has so little bearing in the overall plot that it can be entirely disregarded. Also, Oda pretty much made up for it with the consequent Water 7 and Whitebeard's War sagas.

Kishimoto has no such leeways. He made pretty much threw to the trashcan one of the two (three, if you consider Sasuke) remaining villains in what could very be the last arc before the epilogue. No writer worth of his salt does such a massacre to his plot in the climax.



I'll not bash you for it, because you indicated why you're content with it with a valid reason, not for self-vindication and to act like a feces-throwing baboon like some in this forum.

I wouldn't be on the same basis, but different strokes for different folks. But let it be clear, I do respect Kishimoto's work pretty much until the Child of Prophecy fiasco, after that is when I feel Kishimoto became a crappy writer that puts his Part I self to shame.
I understand you. I will not say that he didn not evolve into a crappy writer. He could have done so much with the plot. But, i respect his work because he managed to keep me reading his shit. For me, even though i'm aware of the major plot holes, of his giant mistakes as a writer, his manga still has a certain appeal. I understand everyone's opinions and i support them. And i think that Kishi's mistake was that eventually he went with the flow. He made Naruto something commercial if i can call it this way. The manga lost it's originality and falled into a clichè. But, for me, it's still entertaining because i still manage to read it with the eyes that i had when i was a child.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #70
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Re: Naruto_599

Kishi made the Tobi identity thing so suspenseful that now it feels like the manga ended. I don't feel as willing to read next chapter as I was before... Anyway, as long as he makes a good explanation I'm happy.

Edit: damn auto correct...
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So...first of all: FUCK YOU KYF ! And your Shisui theories.

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Old 08-29-2012, 10:01 AM   #71
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Re: Naruto_599

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So...first of all: FUCK YOU KYF ! And your Shisui theories. I hope that this is the end for them.
Second of all: despite the plot holes, and everything...i actually liked the chapter. I enjoyed it because i didn't thought about the mistakes. And i have reached a conclusion: we need to stop being so critical. It's a shounen manga afterall. If Kishi screws it, it doesn't matter. It matters if we still have something that makes us read it. Even though i expected more, even though Kishi screwed up making Tobi Obito, I can live with that. It's not about being a fan or a fanatic, it's about my respect for his work. I know that many of you will bash me for this, but even though i was never a supporter of Tobi=Obito theory, i'm content with this result.
We are too critical, but that happened because the writer downgraded his own writing. Nevertheless, Tobi being Obito is still stupid. The reveal should have happened a long time ago to make any sense. After the whole Madara thing, and long and short haired masked man, I am sure pretty much nothing will make sense.

There are things that you can let slide; it's called the Suspension of Belief, for example : Naruto broke Tobi's mask with his Rasengan but didn't do his face with it too. Okay, we can all let this slide. It's a classic thing just to reveal his face, it's nothing big. But when you have Obito, a pretty much non-talented Uchiha, pose as Uchiha Madara, fights his teacher who is 4th Hokage almost on even ground, controls Yagura and so on, the mentioned Suspension is broken, and it just seems way too moronic.

One more example is this : someone here mentioned that there are two plotholes in this chapter alone. I didn't find them too eye gouging, so it's okay, I can let them slide, but I can't let slide the fact that Obito being Tobi makes absolutely zero sense, even though everyone's first guess was that.

But okay, I'll wait and see how will Kishimoto explain himself.

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As stated by veng in your thread not to bash you, the Japanese written language has no f'n resemblance to the English written language. Get that through you thick skull.
This is actually untrue. Names in Japanese (foreign names usually, but also these in the manga since they have root from different language, for example Pain, so it's written as it's read - Pein) are written in Katakana. Surnames in the manga are usually in Hiragana as far as I saw.

Katakana is readable quite similar to what you'd read an English alphabet. For example :
Tobi - トビ
Obito - オビト

So, remove that "O" in Obito, and read it from backwards and you have quite simply Tobi.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:04 AM   #72
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Re: Naruto_599

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Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
This is actually untrue. Names in Japanese (foreign names usually, but also these in the manga since they have root from different language, for example Pain, so it's written as it's read - Pein) are written in Katakana. Surnames in the manga are usually in Hiragana as far as I saw.

Katakana is readable quite similar to what you'd read an English alphabet. For example :
Tobi - トビ
Obito - オビト

So, remove that "O" in Obito, and read it from backwards and you have quite simply Tobi.
OK, I was wrong. Now I know....


And knowing is half the battle. G.I. JOE!!!!!
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:05 AM   #73
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Re: Naruto_599

And now...the one million dolar question: Where are you KYF? I'm pretty sure that the bastard will come up with a theory like:" OMfG Obito is controlled by Shisui's vengeful spirit!"
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:07 AM   #74
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Re: Naruto_599

Cannon! L...M...F...A..O.

And there you have it. I guess it's shitty writing so what do u expect >.>. In all seriousness Vishnu hit it on the head. That's why I post every now n then to fck with u guys. It is what it is and kishi has done it again and made it cannon. This is his art nt a science he can pull many rabbits out his hat and he's done it again. I think tobi shouldda been someone else i get it but it's obito and it's been hinted at and talked about for soooooooooo long (like I said) im not surprised. Nobody should be. So now it's gonna b explained how he learned what he learned and can do what he can. Which people so elegantly argued how its impossible givin his age and when he died.I have to lol a lil cause it's how critical ppl were, idc if u dnt think it was gonna happen Or not it's just how people were its how ppl did it. It wasn't like "nah I don't think so it would be dumb to me"...it was more like "no it's not and here is a list of reasons why...and by the way ur a dumbass" that's the diff.

All in all I wanted action n now I wanna see what sasukes doin.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:08 AM   #75
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Re: Naruto_599

I'm just going to leave this here:
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(one week ago) Oh, a preemptive bullshit on Kakashi recognizing a grown-up, one-time-face-crushed Obito 20 years on because, frankly, all those Uchiha look alike... /racist
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