Spiegel

If Kishi went that route with Oro and made Oro the main villain again I'd respect him again as an author a little.

To answer your previous question, I've been barely skimming through the new chapters since Sasuke's fight with the Kages at the summit.

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"Inherited will, the destiny of the age, and the dreams of its people. These are things that will not be stopped. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom, these things will never cease to be!"
-Gol D. Roger

*Ex-Kakashi87*

The Special One

I don't think I can possibly be disappointed further. So I guess it's a relieving feeling, right?

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The Specialist, forever



^My first thread.lol

jekyl_hyde

The question then becomes (possibly), "How pissed are you going to be when (if) Kishi some how turns this into an awesome ending involving Orochimaru and Sasuke?", considering the level that the manga is at. Will you be happy that he finished on a high note, or pissed that his quality level sunk this low to begin with?








Think I'm going to reread Full-Metal Alchmeist: Brotherhood.

Amuro

Man honestly, I stopped caring a min ago. Like some chaps are good/ok some are pointless to me. I jus read every wed to see what happens. I really have a blank feeling for this manga. I don't expect anything....which never leaves me disappointed. Like this chap I read in like 7 mins....closed my browser and continued with life...to me it's like "oh yea it's wednesday....lemme check naruto" im not excited to see what happens next unless it's a cliff hanger. I admit I DO wonder where kishis going with this but sometimes fanfic predictions are better than what kish presents. This has already been said but imma repeat it...prt 1 was ill to me. That's when the ninjas were like "haha! you didn't realize when I did this....I really did this...to set this up....now I gotchu!" now it's just "haha! this does this....it's impenetrable! What! It's not!?" but it's predictable. Naruto used to make me think (maybe I'm slow lol) but the thought some Justus took was crazy or shocking. Now it's like big move is beat by bigger move. Instead of well thought plan was beat by a better thought out plan...

AOTKorby

Welcome to the club, mate. Most of us have been there for quite a while.

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Amuro

I feel u AOT. I guess it's my personality....I've never been the type of person to get on someone once I know they don't have the capacity to do something. That's y u never see me really nit pick this manga. Once I realized that this is kish...and the fck ups are basically "in" him I stopped expecting shit frm him. Now I jus read the manga, find things I like, and try to see where I think Kishi SHOULD go with it. It doesn't excuse him, but since I don't have a direct line to him....it doesn't evn matter, I just let him rock. I stand on the side lines KNOWING that what I think would be good....won't happen. When he does something that amuses me I give kudos because most of the time I'm genually surprised. Thats y I say I feel blank towards the manga...he can't hlp himself! We're going to b disappointed, this isn't the same manga we grew to love feel me? Once kish showed how he was I stopped expecting, which nvr leaves me disappointed at worst meh...

minato uchiha

Man stay off that damn hay you Stubborn Donkey, and stop talking shit. If you agree with Num's statement then why don't you show me what I made up or invented to support my opinion. Go on, show me instead of trying to sound all philosophical and shit, and STRUGGLING at it.

@Gam: again, I fail to see any point that you're making so srop making them and just ignore my post if it lacks intergrity.

God I wish someone will use logic to evaluate a post and tell he/she why their assumptions are wrong, instead of this nonsensical bs you posted to me.

Gamabunta

why are you crapping on those posts that bashes kishi and obito's clear lack of motive if you then feel that its wrong if they do likewise to your coincidentally strange support for this manga?

stubborn_d0nkey

I didn't read everything, so I don't know if you made shit up or not.

Anyways, I saw you saying that you posted your opinion, not a fact, and using that as a defense for the "making up shit" thingy, which is stupid. I have no need nor obligation to go find if you made up shit or not, since I made no statement on the issue, and since whether you did make up shit or not is irrelevant.

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Numinous

Sure thing:
There's no indication of a prophecy directly targeting Nagato (the closest thing was the Frog Sage's Child of Prophecy, but even he didn't specify any names and told only to Jiraiya as far as we know), thus it being an argument from ignorance. Sorry to break it to you, but its basic logic, it's not by labeling it your opinion that it'll suddenly not be an argument from ignorance. You see, I'm not against anyone expressing their opinions, since freedom of speech reigns high in this forum and rightfully so, now don't expect people to simply let slide a fallacy like that.
Because, unlike you, I don't deny I try to convince people when presenting explanations because if I didn't, explanations would be futile. What's the point of providing an explanation in a forum if it isn't to tell people what you think it's logically viable, thus making them agree or not with your explanation? You might not try to convince people directly, but by providing explanations you're already doing it. It's the nature of the argumentative game.

Nobody is trying to homogenize the opinions, since that's a futile attempt anyway. One can enjoy Naruto all s/he wants, the problem is when people try to justify some of Kishimoto's... less stellar moments with (very) weak arguments, and people here just counter them with more solid arguments. You don't need to go apologetics on Kishi's writing, sometimes is just better to acknowledge its flaws and either like it, dislike it or simply ignore it.

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minato uchiha

1) Thanks for providing an example. First, my sentence begins with 'it almost seem's..' which clearly shows that I am not stating a fact but rather, an opinion which in my mind, is more or less credible. Now you bring up this argument from ignorance rhetric which you are so fond of using. So let's examine if it is indeed an argument from ignorance or an assumption based on facts.

The rinnegan has held mythlogical status until Jiraiya confirmed it to be true. Even though the Sage was thought of as a myth, his treasures were held by the Kumo and other people had heard of his legend. The Uchiha Tablet has secrets etched on it that we are only giving snippets of. It is said that only the rinnegan can truly decipher it and the manga never indidcated that Nagato was aware of its existence. Madara too, it seem's never read the tablet unless he sneaked up into Konoha after awakening his rinnegan. this is still a possibility and the 'Madara' that met Itachi, had sneaked into the shrine to do that very same thing.

Now why did I bore you with all this, well its quite simple. Prophecies, has a motif throughout this manga. Characters like Minato, Jirayai, Elder Sage etc have all made prophetic statements that have come true. The Sage himself told the tailed beast about what would happen to them in the distant future and that one day they would be re-united. So if I WONDER based on all the prophetic theme's in Naruto and question that the apparrent randomness of Madara giving his most prized possession, his eyes, to a stranger like Nagato, must have some underlying meaning or prohecy behind it, it is NOT an argument from ignorance. It is an assumption based on facts and common sense.

Must everything be spelt out to us the reader before we believe it? So its is wrong to make assumptions and predict what one thinks has being happening because you guys will use that tired on bs logic of argument from ignorance?

Let me ask you a question Num. Do you think Madara just randomly chose an Uzamaki called Nagato to have his eyes or do you think Nagato was special in some way, hence why he chose him?

2) Ok well we dont have similar motives then. Me, I post my thoughts on this forum to see if I'm right or not. If people think I'm wrong, I actually appreciate when they articulate why I'm talking shit. If you noticed, I only ever get aggressive and start flaming when people approach me in rude manner or simply dismiss my post without stating why it is bs. You, I respect you because you tell me why I'm talking shit and I don't think you can accuse me of insisting I am right all the time.

You can try and convince people to agree with you, but don't take it personal when they don't. Me, it means nothing whether you agree with me or not. I just want an interesting debate so that maybe we get a heads up on what Kishi is going to go next with his story.

3) Its like this, some of us like Kishi's writing and others don't. On this forum in particular, the 'regulars' are constantly moaning about the lack of depth of his writing and plot holes etc. The second others who are ok with the storyline, says otherwise, you guys get upset and dismiss that person for lacking knowledge or being easily pleased. You don't realise this because like many others on this forum, you cannot see the wood for the trees.

@Gam: Helloooo, I put 'lol' after I bashed these people. You call that lil line bashing? What else did I say? Get yourself a dictionary, then re read the last few discussion threads and see how much I have 'bashed' these people.

@Stubborn Donkey: still eating hay I see. Why make a comment when you haven't even bothered to read what this whole debate/argument is about in the first place?

stubborn_d0nkey

Lol, why should I bother to read what this whole debate/argument is about if it makes no difference to what I commented?

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minato uchiha

Why make a comment on something when you have no interest in finding out what the gensis is and what it is actually about?

stubborn_d0nkey

Now you are just grasping.

The topic of my comment was about the same thing as I quoted. Why should something different affect my comment(ing)?

P.S. "No interest", lul, wtf? Wouldn't you call that making shit up since there was nothing for you to (reasonably) base that on?

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minato uchiha

What is wrong with you man? You said you have 'no need..' and I said 'you have no interest..' and in the context that it was said, that sounds different to you?

Forget it, you was right, I was wrong, please lets end it. Reading your bs has bored me enough.