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Old 10-04-2012, 04:00 AM   #16
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Interesting theory Kyf and I can see where you're coming from. Kamui and Koto do seem unique and either can be or has being, influenced by Hashirama's dna.
Kamui has never been shown, or implied, to be affected by Hashirama's DNA or chakra.

Quote:
with kamui, Obito awakened in, whilst he was merged with Hashi's parts.
It's been implied that Obito somehow used Kamui to escape being completely crushed by the rocks in the cave-in, and that was before the Zetsu graft. He hasn't shown any use of it since that time during this flashback.

Edit: to a statement in the OP about Obito viewing Kakashi stabbing Rin via his remaining sharingan, that would be false. Obito saw it through the empty socket left by giving up his other eye.

Last edited by kael03; 10-04-2012 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:14 AM   #17
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Kamui has never been shown, or implied, to be affected by Hashirama's DNA or chakra.



It's been implied that Obito somehow used Kamui to escape being completely crushed by the rocks in the cave-in, and that was before the Zetsu graft. He hasn't shown any use of it since that time during this flashback.

Edit: to a statement in the OP about Obito viewing Kakashi stabbing Rin via his remaining sharingan, that would be false. Obito saw it through the empty socket left by giving up his other eye.
1. True, you are 100% correct. I wrote in the OP that this was pure speculation. However, there HAS to be a reason why Obito uses his Ms so frequently without suffering any side effects, and my thinking is that, Hashi's cells have something to do with it.

2. Good point and I actually missed that, thanks for that. That puts a huge hole in my theory, damn you. Lol.

3. Ok, I can accept that as well. Either way, Obito saw through the eye he gave Kakashi and it is my belief, that this was a ONE TIME event, due to Rin being killed by Kakashi.

Good critique man. Guess its back to the drawing board
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:21 AM   #18
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
1. True, you are 100% correct. I wrote in the OP that this was pure speculation. However, there HAS to be a reason why Obito uses his Ms so frequently without suffering any side effects, and my thinking is that, Hashi's cells have something to do with it.
Kakashi has used his version of Kamui numerous times and hasn't shown any side effects associated with the MS (going blind) that isn't due to him not being Uchiha (the tiredness that follows use of his sharingan in either form). He has no involvement with anything related to Hashirama.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:45 AM   #19
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Kakashi has used his version of Kamui numerous times and hasn't shown any side effects associated with the MS (going blind) that isn't due to him not being Uchiha (the tiredness that follows use of his sharingan in either form). He has no involvement with anything related to Hashirama.
Why Kakashi hasn't suffered any side effects, remains in conjecture. Him not being an Uchiha should obviously have something to do with it, don't you think? I mean, if it affects ALL Uchiha's according to Itachi, then don't you find it odd that only 2 people are contrary to this rule? Namely, an non Uchiha, Kakashi and Obito who has Hashi's dna.

Furthermore, Kakashi has used kamui about 6 times now, I think and his eyes started bleeding. Obito warps 6 times per episode, lol and yet, no bleeding whatsoever. Why is that? Don't you think Hashi has a lil something to do with it?
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:46 AM   #20
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Interesting theory Kyf and I can see where you're coming from. Kamui and Koto do seem unique and either can be or has being, influenced by Hashirama's dna. With koto, you can reduce the gap with his dna and with kamui, Obito awakened in, whilst he was merged with Hashi's parts.

@Dragonbpy: you just won't listen will you? You must be that thick and pathetic that even when ppl are trying to debate nicely, some cunt always has to spoil things. Once again, your target is Kyf and now me. But say what you say about my 'leader', at least he arouses debate and interest on this forum. But you, what do you do? You don't even say anything vaguely amusing or interesting and your jokes are so lamentable. So why do you do it? I realise you want Apacolypz to laugh and approval of your jokes, which he duly does, but this is getting silly.

Today try something new. Today say something original or give us an eureka moment or something. Say something relevant you fucking non entity. Cmon, you can do it. Aint you bored yet attacking the same targets? Moron

To everyone else, I'm sorry for this lil flaming rant but what am I to do when someone keeps on provoking you for no reason? Its different if he was laughing at the theory and saying it was stupid. That's fine, I can accept that because its there to be scrutinised or ridiculed. But attacking me and not my theory is the wrong move mate.

Dude don't get so emotional over people either calling you out directly or poking fun at you...Yesterday I made a duplicate post...I had comment after comment about how blind I was in making the dbl post..sure I could of attempted to chew them out..but hey man its just a forum. Ain't like you know anybody here personally so don't take everything personal. We all thank and laugh at silly comments. Hell I am at work majority of the time and simply enjoy a good laugh...I don't have anything against you..... though if I want to laugh or thank someone...don't think I am doing to out right piss you off...Not everyone has a agenda here.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:00 AM   #21
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Furthermore, Kakashi has used kamui about 6 times now, I think and his eyes started bleeding.
Been more times than that. He's used it 4 times in just this fight, which may explain the bleeding, since it puts a significant strain on him. He used it three times on Diedara. He used it twice against Sasuke, to absorb an arrow from Susano'o. He used it during his fight with Pain to absorb the nail being launched with Shinra Tensei.

Unless you were just counting this fight, then it's been 4. He tried to warp the Gedo Mazo's head away, the kunai, the rasengan, and then Naruto.

Quote:
Obito warps 6 times per episode, lol and yet, no bleeding whatsoever. Why is that? Don't you think Hashi has a lil something to do with it?
Simple, and it has nothing to do with Hashirama. Kakashi is not an Uchiha, so the strain of using the sharingan/MS is much more significant on him. Obito is an Uchiha, so use of the sharingan in either form isn't nearly as debilitating. Using Amaterasu causes the eye to bleed, as well, and it takes a significant toll on the user.

Kakashi was originally limited to 3 uses a day, and was almost in a coma. 4 puts a major strain on his eye and causes the bleeding.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:49 AM   #22
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Been more times than that. He's used it 4 times in just this fight, which may explain the bleeding, since it puts a significant strain on him. He used it three times on Diedara. He used it twice against Sasuke, to absorb an arrow from Susano'o. He used it during his fight with Pain to absorb the nail being launched with Shinra Tensei.

Unless you were just counting this fight, then it's been 4. He tried to warp the Gedo Mazo's head away, the kunai, the rasengan, and then Naruto.



Simple, and it has nothing to do with Hashirama. Kakashi is not an Uchiha, so the strain of using the sharingan/MS is much more significant on him. Obito is an Uchiha, so use of the sharingan in either form isn't nearly as debilitating. Using Amaterasu causes the eye to bleed, as well, and it takes a significant toll on the user.

Kakashi was originally limited to 3 uses a day, and was almost in a coma. 4 puts a major strain on his eye and causes the bleeding.
1. I didn't literally mean 6 times but Kakashi has used it no more than 10 times and his eye is bleeding.

2. Its actually not simple. Earlier, you said Kakashi hasn't shown any signs of the MS side effects, but the fact that for the FIRST time his eye was bleeding after using kamui, is him displaying a side effect of Ms. Yes, it could be overuse but in this one encounter alone, Obito has used kamui a dozen times if not more and his eye aint bleeding.

Obito using kamui constantly imo, can only be explained by the following.
1. Its a sharingan jutsu so no eye bleed
2. He has Hashi cells incorporated in his body in a much higher form than Danzo sticking on Hashi's parts.
3. Kamui/Obito is special
4. Kishi ass pull.

Lol, I can almost guess which option you'll agree with.

@apacolypz: I hear you man and I like banter and jokes. Its no problem for me, who wants to read a boring forum anyway. I'm on SI and the way we talk to each other there, makes this forum look like its being run by Mary Poppins. So I'm ok if ppl wana laugh at my post but its HOW you do it, that's my beef. This Kyf reference is like a red rag to me because I hate the way Kyf is always attacked and if others say something that sounds stupid to the person, they call him Kyf. Why oh why, especially when I've told you, don't do it?

Lol, what else I'm I suppose to do mate, laugh it off?

Take what Kael03 is doing to me now. He is literally tearing my theory to shreds and I'm trying to salvage as much of it as I can. I haven't being rude to him, I appreciate what he is saying. But if he done it in a rude obnoxious way, its all guns blazing. You get me?

Last edited by minato uchiha; 10-04-2012 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:04 AM   #23
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
1. I didn't literally mean 6 times but Kakashi has used it no more than 10 times and his eye is bleeding.

2. Its actually not simple. Earlier, you said Kakashi hasn't shown any signs of the MS side effects, but the fact that for the FIRST time his eye was bleeding after using kamui, is him displaying a side effect of Ms. Yes, it could be overuse but in this one encounter alone, Obito has used kamui a dozen times if not more and his eye aint bleeding.

Obito using kamui constantly imo, can only be explained by the following.
1. Its a sharingan jutsu so no eye bleed
2. He has Hashi cells incorporated in his body in a much higher form than Danzo sticking on Hashi's parts.
3. Kamui/Obito is special
4. Kishi ass pull.

Lol, I can almost guess which option you'll agree with.

@apacolypz: I hear you man and I like banter and jokes. Its no problem for me, who wants to read a boring forum anyway. I'm on SI and the way we talk to each other there, makes this forum look like its being run by Mary Poppins. So I'm ok if ppl wana laugh at my post but its HOW you do it, that's my beef. This Kyf reference is like a red rag to me because I hate the way Kyf is always attacked and if others say something that sounds stupid to the person, they call him Kyf. Why oh why, especially when I've told you, don't do it?

Lol, what else I'm I suppose to do mate, laugh it off?

Take what Kael03 is doing to me now. He is literally tearing my theory to shreds and I'm trying to salvage as much of it as I can. I haven't being rude to him, I appreciate what he is saying. But if he done it in a rude obnoxious way, its all guns blazing. You get me?

Man let me tell you something...same thing in life...everything never operates as it should...you will meet one nice person out of the five.....and in regards to people calling you KYF or what not....man simply ignore them or really literally ignore them...If something is funny, let it be...don't get your cucumber pickled over the most minuscule thing...also don't let people rile you up...this site is set up like more of a debate blog at times....i get you..some just want to argue and feel like they won....ignore them....i have gotten into it with people on here but I think about the most important thing...I don't know them or they know me....its all irrelevant. obviously you are not KYF...obviously you don't feel like an idiot. It is one thing to be insulted and not given the chance of day..or to be made fun of and respond appropriately...but it is not like everyone here is attacking you or calling you KFY Bowser Jr. Man you're good..just don't try to defend yourself so hard but in the process be a hypocrite when responding to others.. Like about two weeks ago someone said something about you...I responded spot on spot on and you attempted to insult me....(when really, I did nothing wrong but find humor in their post....) Just be cool man...

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Old 10-04-2012, 07:33 AM   #24
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Ok man, I read your post and you make a lot of sense. I'll take heed and learn to chill out more. Thanks for that
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:14 AM   #25
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok man, I read your post and you make a lot of sense. I'll take heed and learn to chill out more. Thanks for that
Man no probs....I totally get it..and hopefully things will be better or handled better.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:09 PM   #26
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Kamui has never been shown, or implied, to be affected by Hashirama's DNA or chakra.
This is completely false kal... Just last chapter zetsu made the reference of obito awakening a whole new eye power of the uchiha and senju... Hashirama senju that is, the body he is wearing and has half of too...




See!!! Poo free zetsu mentioned that obito could use his power and the hashirama body (hashirama's power) to awaken a whole new power which is kamui... the Whole new MS jutsu from then...
SO yes there was an implication...

You are going on what madara said about obito phasing through the earth to get to his hide out, but that is unlikely... He was almost dead and did not have the power to use the MS so madara likely saw the whole thing and took obito to use him... The one person we know could phase through the earth at the time is zetsu... the person and clones who were said to of got obito in the first place... So we can chalk that up to madara not explaining in detail about how obito was saved...


Quote:
It's been implied that Obito somehow used Kamui to escape being completely crushed by the rocks in the cave-in, and that was before the Zetsu graft. He hasn't shown any use of it since that time during this flashback.
I just covered this, I will post again..

You are going on what madara said about obito phasing through the earth to get to his hide out, but that is unlikely... He was almost dead and did not have the power to use the MS so madara likely saw the whole thing and took obito to use him... The one person we know could phase through the earth at the time is zetsu... the person and clones who were said to of got obito in the first place... So we can chalk that up to madara not explaining in detail about how obito was saved...


What madara actually said is that obito seemed like he slipped away from the other rocks even though we saw them cover him... But, zetsu was the one who rescued him so it is likely they are the ones who slip him through the earth to safety... not his MS ability that could not possibly of activated with a two tomoe SG with half a crushed, plain uchiha body...



Quote:
Edit: to a statement in the OP about Obito viewing Kakashi stabbing Rin via his remaining sharingan, that would be false. Obito saw it through the empty socket left by giving up his other eye.
No, obito saw rin being stabbed by means of his transplanted eye in kakashi... due to the telepathic ability of hashirama's power he can use now... It just appeared where the eye used to be, but it was his eye that saw it... it is just telepathy which zetsu tobi just talked about in the chapter...
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And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

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Old 10-04-2012, 12:39 PM   #27
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

both of obito's eyes still likely share a connection. i think kakashi's MS also activated when Obito's was activated (the shared vision could be a hint) but it was only during after the timeskip, when kakashi continuously trained and improved his chakra capacity, that he was able to pull it off. kamui was shown to consume a lot of chakra, and kakashi as a kid even if he had the kamui probably won't be able to use it anyway.

Obito can use it continuously because he's attached to a hashirama clone that could retard the degradation of his sharingan, and would also act as a decent chakra source IMHO.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:06 PM   #28
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

KYF that's a weak link. You can't just jump the gun and called that new power kamui. Furthermore speculation should'nt even be made from a flashback cause this are things that have already been shown when tobi explain the Izanagi.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #29
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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KYF that's a weak link. You can't just jump the gun and called that new power kamui. Furthermore speculation should'nt even be made from a flashback cause this are things that have already been shown when tobi explain the Izanagi.
Are you serious??? A weak link!?!?!

What do you think "a new power" could possibly be other then Kamui???

If uchiha awaken tsukuyomi, amaterasu and then sasanoo after mastering both of those... then what else could zetsu of been referring to???

ANd Izanagi is a technique that can be used by only the uchiha, not required to have senju as well... Otherwise how else could Izanagi have evolved into an kinjutsu of the uchiha if they cannot actually use it on their own lol...
The Izanagi you are speaking of is the sage's, the Original Izanagi... Which uses the power of Yin/uchiha and Yang/senju... which also creates the RG, Kotamatsukami probably as well as kamui... (lower forms of the RG apparently)...


Why call my link weak?? Uchiha YIN element users awaken amaterasu, tsukuyomi and sasanoo... senju/Uzumaki awaken physical energy and life energy that offer power vitality for long lives and instant regeneration, powerful chakra, bijuu control and somehow telepathy...

Obito's SG and Kamui-
: MS doujutsu that is not amaterasu not amaterasu...
: It does not lose eye sight when it is used... thus instant regeneration...
: It has a telepathic link between the eye's which has only been seen in the RG... but hashirama's power offers the zetsu telepathic links too...

That is three traits of obito's SG/MS that shows it is a hybrid power doujutsu of the uchiha's YIN power and the senju/Uzumaki's YANG power as well..
It has traits of the YANG power of the senju/uzumaki which means it must use that power in it's creation and use...

What exactly is your counter argument against this exactly??? merely claiming a weak link is not much as opposed to showing why it is a weak link is something else though... Show me...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:51 PM   #30
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
KYF that's a weak link. You can't just jump the gun and called that new power kamui. Furthermore speculation should'nt even be made from a flashback cause this are things that have already been shown when tobi explain the Izanagi.
Hear the dude out. I'm not saying he (KYF) is correct, but following the circumstances of the recent chapters of this arc, KYF could be on to something. His logic fits within the parameters that Kishi has set up (even though the parameters are flawed).
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