minato uchiha

Ok my point is this. BEFORE Itachi and Tobi met, Itachi had awakened his ms, was Anbu trained and was about to wipe out his clan. So what possibly mentoring or training could Tobi have given him?

Do you see my point? Itachi was already powerful before he made a DEAL with Tobi and what he said to Sasuke, was so Sasuke wouldn't trust or work for Tobi.

Vengeance

Based on what? There's no direct timeline to any of this. From what we know Itachi most likely gained MS by helping Sushui commit suicide which happened a couple days before the massacre in question. For all you know Itachi met Tobi first then helped Susui commit suicide. Simply put you don't fucking know.

Something as simple as information on how to gain MS. Like I said you don't fucking know.

No I don't. What is your point anyway?

What are you even babbling about? What is the relevance of any of this? Itachi was a kid when he met Obito while Obito was a full grown man with years of experience with the MS dojutsu. What makes you think Obito had nothing to offer Itachi?

Again based on what? Also you said this already stop repeating yourself.

Information is a powerful thing. Also what's your point? You seem to be rambling.

No I don't.

Huuu?? Itachi was a boy when he met Obito & from what I remember Sushui was the most powerful Uchiha during that time not Itachi. Sushui also lost to Danzou which well says allot about how powerful Itachi actually was. Don't confuse the hype Itachi was strong but not unbeatable.


PS: What is more likely, a child who only recently grew into power single handedly destroys the most powerful clan in the known shinobi world or that he was helped by an older shinobi that can become intangible basically making him indestructible?

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minato uchiha

What you said makes NO SENSE whatsoever. This is what we know. Itachi according to his own memories, met Tobi AFTER Shisui had given him his eye. By that time, Itachi had already awakened his Ms, remember ehat he did to the 3 Uchiha policemen? Itachi had ALREADY being an Anbu and trusted with the top secret mission of wiping out his clan.

So what rubbish are you claiming here? Tobi was NOT his mentor, trainer or anything of the sort. He had nothing to do with Itachi's impressive abilities. Instead of questioning what I said, which is canon btw, why don't you provide some evidence other than 'for all we know..'

And where did I say Itachi was the most powerful Uchiha at the time?
Obviously he HAD to have being powerful for a 12 to be trusted by the Hokage, Danzou etc. Obviously he HAD to be very powerful at 12 for Tobi to make a deal with him and stick to it.

Vengeance

Again based on what? There's no direct timeline to back up what you're saying. How is that hard to understand?

Which happened days before the massacre in question. Again no timeline is given for when Itachi actually met Obito.

Being Anbu has nothing to do with destroying his clan. Also relevance to any of this?

According to Itachi himself a masked man assuming the identity of Madara who is now implied to be Obito actually was his mentor/trainer.

Based on what? Itachi himself suggest otherwise.

Because I'm not making the claim of a definitive timeline you are. So the burden of proof lies with you to prove that timeline to be correct. You're saying that Itachi had MS before meeting Obito & I'm asking you to prove it. O wait you can't.

The Hokage had nothing to do with the massacre it was all Danzou.

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minato uchiha

Your question 1 and 2, contradict each other and once again, make no sense. You say there's no definitive timeline yet you name one which is WRONG. The massacre happened the day Shisui's body was found.

3. Who said it did? Being an Anbu squad leader by 12 having already mastered his sharingan at 8, PROVES, Itachi was already an accomplished and powerful shinobi before his alleged 'mentoring' by Tobi. Didn't you get that?

4. Lool if you're gonna insist on being naive and not understand why Itachi said that to Sasuke, that's up to you.

5. Lol, so what exactly did Tobi do for Itachi? How did he train the 12 year old who was already powerful by the time they met? Tell me...

6. I can actually. Itachi first showed his MS the day after Shisui committed suicide. Yet you're gonna say(comically) that Tobi met and trained Itachi months before this incident right? Lol oh wait wait, you'll say, 'who knows, it could have being years not months' right?

7. This is the most laughably claim of all. It doesn't even warrant an answer. You SHOULD know better!

Vengeance

Wow you're a fucking idiot. I made no contradiction. Comment one relates to you putting on a timeline on when Itachi meet Obito when there isn't one while comment two is about when Itachi first used MS. Which is like a day after Sushui committed suicide which was right before the massacre in question. So tell me when exactly did Itachi have time to venture out into the wildness, find Obito, & get him to agree to a plan to take out the Uchiha when the death of Sushui, gaining MS, & the massacre happened within a matter of days from one another?

Sasuke was already a powerful shinobi by the time he left with Orochimaru. Does that change the fact that Sasuke got stronger as a direct result of Orochimaru's teachings/training/mentoring? Like I said Itachi being Anbu isn't relevant to anything.

Yet you're ignoring the fact that it was even said to begin with.

Like I said before dumbass you don't know exactly how & when they met. The timeline for that simply doesn't exist. However since Itachi clearly referred to the masked shinobi as a mentor of sorts we have to take it as that until shown otherwise.


I never said such a thing. What I said was Itachi gained MS from Sushui's death which happened days before the massacre. Yet you're trying to add in a timeline for when Itachi met Obito when it simply isn't there. You have yet to show me one reason why I should assume that Itachi met Obito after gaining MS. When in reality based on the timeline we do have the opposite is clearly implied.

You're clearly an idiot.


Wow so Danzou didn't give the order to destroy the Uchiha behind Sarutobi's back even though the manga specifically states otherwise? Fucking retards.

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Vengeance

Obito: He approached me and made an offer. In return for allowing me to get revenge on the Uchiha he asked me not to harm the rest of the village. I said I would help annihilate my family. However, the 3rd Hokage had other plans. He tried to reach a truce with the Uchiha. But time pressed on and he failed.


Like I said the 3rd didn't want to destroy the Uchiha. Also based on this we can create a timeline since talks with the Uchiha to prevent war were still taking place. Meaning the final order to destroy the Uchiha was never given when Obito & Itachi first met. Sushui lost his eye in an effort to sway Danzou's decision on destroying the Uchiha. Meaning some time had past between Itachi & Obito's meeting & the actual massacre in question. Since Sushui died just days before the massacre Itachi couldn't have had MS when he first met Obito since he met him some time before Sushui's actual death. You can STFU now.

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minato uchiha

Change your name from Vengeance to Retardness. You say there's no timeline et you again state one in the pathetic excuse of a post you've just posted. Hello, dummy, learn to read english.

2. What a stupid fucking point you just made. Are you still in pre school or something? Itachi had MS before meeting Tobi so what exactly did Tobi teach him you fucking prick? Sasuke when he left Oro didn't even have Ms and hadn't even mastered his sharingan. Clearly he had MUCH MORE to learn. Just like you, your parents took you out of school way to early.

3. Again, since we have established your IQ level, please carry on being as naive and idiotic as always. Fucking moron.

4. Prick. Itachi was influenced by Shisui NOT Tobi. He told Naruto what Shisui taught him and he tried to kill Tobi yet in your dumb as shit world, that still means Tobi was Itachi's mentor. This so called debate is becoming tiresome. Are you that stupid?

5. Oh really. Lets see. Itachi shows his Ms the day after Shisui's body is found yet the imbecile called Vengeance, claims this proves Tobi met Itachi days before Shisui even died. Yep, you've got my vote. Lmao.

6. I'm clearly your superior.

7. Lool, so the 3rd had no idea the Uchiha's were to be massacred and I suppose he must have being outrages upon learning of it. More so when Itachi went to him and begged him to protect Sasuke, right?

What a waste of my precious time. You are beneath me intellectually. You have no sense, let alone a common one. Please fuck off and stop posting to me. Unless you can muster a decent argument, shut the fuck up you waste.

ninjalostboy95

Retardness? Come on dude, you just made yourself look retarded.

Vengeance

Hey moron I just showed proof that Itachi didn't have MS before meeting Obito since Itachi met Obito some time before Sushui's death. Since Itachi gained MS because of Sushui's(his closest friend) death he couldn't have had it when he first met Obito. How is that hard to understand you fucking moron?

Ignoring the rest of your post since you're a fucking retard.

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minato uchiha

Dummy, how did you prove that with that scan? How you idiot? In that lil convo, I suppose Tobi told the whole truth and nothing but the truth right? Prick. Itachi's OWN memories carry much more weight than you idiotic scan, and it doesn't tally with what Tobi says.

Ninjaboy: dont get involved man, its not needed

Vengeance

By simple logic you fool.

1. Some time in the past Obito met Itachi in a forest. Itachi talked about a plan to take out the Uchiha.

2. Plan is put on hold since Sarutobi doesn't want to kill Uchiha. Meaning time has passed since Itachi & Obito's original conversation.

3. Time passes & talks fail so plan is executed to kill Uchiha.

Now we look at Sushui's timeline

1. Sushui approaches Danzou in an attempt to sway his decision to wipe out the Uchiha.

2. Sushui now on the run from Anbu approaches Itachi & gives him his eye before committing suicide. Itachi gains MS from this event.

3. Within the span of a few days (max) Itachi is blaimed for Sushui's death & kills the Uchiha come nightfall.


Sense Sushui's death happened days before the actual massacre while Itachi's conversation with Obito happened some time before the final order was ever given logically speaking Obito & Itachi met BEFORE Sushui died. Meaning Itachi did not have MS on their first meeting.

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minato uchiha

Lool, what a retarded timeline you've conjoured up here. Contradicting yourself again I see.
The reality is this. Itachi first showed his Ms the day after Shisui died. Yet you are claiming, months before this, Itachi already met Tobi and had Ms.

Fucking imbecile. You have proved NOTHING. Try again

Vengeance

Actually you're contradicting yourself now & trying to say I said something I never did because you were just proven wrong.

What you said is & I quote
What I'm claiming is simple. Itachi gained MS because of Sushui's death which happened days before the massacre. Itachi met Obito before Sushui died. Meaning Itachi did not have MS when he met Obito. This is all I'm claiming. Stop trying to put words into my mouth in a weak attempt to make yourself look smart because it sadly isn't working.

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minato uchiha

Pathetic. This is what I'm saying. Itachi had Ms before meeting Tobi, and he met him after Shisui died.

Your a hypocrite because you said there is no timeline yet post after post, you try to establish one. Moron.