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Old 10-24-2012, 05:27 PM   #46
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Re: Naruto 607

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Originally Posted by Aman Shahur View Post
minato is rin father...........i say it first..........thank for me when this come true.............
This just seals the deal of you being a troll
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:06 PM   #47
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Re: Naruto 607

Yahiko was the man of the chapter. I am fucking proud of him.

Now then... Time to defend me some Masashi.

The whole flashback was okay. Had one major thing that irritated me, but it's far from anything major.

The thing that irritated me was that Obito didn't ask Kakashi anything, but then again, people who snap like Obito did don't think much, especially in such a moment. It can't be even called stupid.

The thing that people don't get about Obito is that the guy is simply mad. He is pretty much what anyone would call crazy. That alone lets anything he has done to be not-a-weird-thing-to-do.

So he saw his childhood love get killed by his best friend. Not fucked up enough? Survived being torn almost in half. He is kinda nuts. And don't tell me crazy people are just raving lunatics. There are a lot of nut jobs who are more calculated then I am.

Nothing in the flashback poked my eyes beside Madara wanting peace and love because I am kinda fed with that shit, but I guess Kishimoto is going with wanting to make villains more complicated then RAAGH ME KILL YOU and that's okay (even though I think his best villains were just that - Sasori, Deidara, Kakuzu, Hidan, Kisame - I consider them the best antagonists of the manga beside Orochimaru of course, but Kishi fucked Oro too much for me to take him seriously anymore). Not to mention, I knew this before this flashback so.

It seems Gai is badly wounded. I am hoping to see me some 8 gates and his death, nothing would satisfy me more in this fight.

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Originally Posted by Reesaroni View Post
Let's see

Explanation on Rins death/betrayal/whatever - nope
Explanation on controlling the Mizukage? - nope
Explantation on Akatski founding - plotholed
Wood dragon - check

What the fuck???
Who's shaking your cage? You'll get your explanation of Rin's death from Kakashi, not from Obito's flashback most certainly. Just think about it a bit and it will seem logical, trust me.

Bloody Mist is something that Kishimoto missed, but even so I am satisfied. If this flashback needed to be prolonged 3 or more chapters just on something that can be concluded by a reader, I wouldn't praise it too much either.

What's a plothole there? You can make any scenario yourself, as a reader, that works perfectly. Kishimoto didn't have to draw and write every little thing to you, you aren't 12. Nagato came to see Obito one day and talk to him after they lost too many friends of whatever, then convinced Yahiko that this guy is legit. Yahiko eventually agrees and Obito makes him found Akatsuki. Bla bla.

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Originally Posted by emachina View Post
WE KNOW MORE ABOUT KABUTO'S MOM! How is that fucking possible? Like him or not, Kabuto was a side kick, a side villain, always a second banana. And yet, I know more about this secondary character's secondary mother than I do Rin! Who apparently is the cause of the the fucking drama in the world right now! How in the name of all that is good and just in the world can filler anime villains have better depth, backstory, and information than the catalyst of the major villains of this manga? And for that matter, how can the talking ostrich have better character development? It's unpossible!
You don't actually need anything about Rin to make her the motive. Did you read/watch something where the plot is like this : someone was killed and the main character goes on a "quest" to find the killer and finds out that it was someone related to him and whatnot? Well, there are tons of such stories out there, and this is just like that.

Now, I would have appreciated more about Rin, but not in this flashback. In Kakashi Gaiden, probably, but not now that the fighting is going on.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:25 PM   #48
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Re: Naruto 607

With the exception of continued Shisui trolling, KYF has a point....near as we can tell, Obito WASN'T wearing the spiral zetsu suit during the Konoha attack, how in the blue fuck was he able to take on Minato? And the spiral suit was the best explanation for the sudden height increase....what the shit.

The hair thing doesn't bother me as much....simple transformation jutsu, or hell, mayb Rogain for men.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:25 PM   #49
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Re: Naruto 607

You know i been thinking.

I don't think it is necause Rin died he snapped i think it was the fact everything he clinged to was destroyed in one fell swoop.

The guy he looked up to and entrusted his ninja way killed the person he saw as the embodiment of his ninja way.

The strength and determination/ the honor and pride was Kakashi. The justice, kind hearted fight for whats right was Rin.

The ninja system took that away.

Kakashi killing Rin(for whatever reason) pushed him over and made him hate the current state of the world. If he never met Madara and somehow found his way back to Konoha, the results of that day would have been different. Rin would be alive or at least he would have closure, knowing WHY she died.

Sasuke had his life before hand, cheeeful wanting acceptemce from his father and approval from Itachi.
But once he saw itach kill his clan he becane a different creature.

Naruto has always been alone, he is going through a differet transformation.
He turned it around instead of "forget you all", he said "look at me I will be noticed a the best one day!".

Anyway,

If i look at it more as symbolism instead of , " my chiodhood crush is dead" it makes a bit more sense.
Plus he was a kid when he saw this go down, with no GOOD support system.

Obito, "I saw my best friend kill my love interest."

Madara, " yeah but did anybody see you?"

Instead of.

Madara, "really? I'm sorry u had to see that. I am sure there is a reason, let's find out together."

Sasuke is two steps from being Obito, only one thing stopping him.

He wants to know the reasons. He doesnt just say fuck it i hate the world. He wans to know why, kill the one responsible or group them get to rebuilding his clan.

Still think the moon's eye plan is a big fat lie Madara put out there.
He just wants to be the ten tail Jink.

One more thing it seems when Yahiko died that pushed Nagato to find tobdara. But i wouldn't be suprised if he had something to do with that.
Yahiko was like, "you must be stupid we don't need to be measing around with you. Come on guys be fire these two say something even more nonsensical! Madara....lol... Idiot."

Konan was ther before Akataski became what it is. I see now that when he says he started the organization he means the terrorist version. Not the one Yahiko was leading.

Nagato still wanted what Yahiko wanted he just was corrupted, he didnt want any part of the Moon's eye plan. Which brings me to think both Itachi and Nagato were stronger than Obito, hell maybe he feared all of the members, except bomberman.


1. Didn't attack Konoha or approach Sasuke til after Itachi was dead.
2. Didn't take obvious control of Akataski unil AFTER Nagato was dead. He could have steped in and ran it right after Yahiko was killed, but didn't.
3. He didn't take known control of the group until everyone but Zetsu and Kisame were dead or MIA.

Last edited by jericho Uzimaki; 10-24-2012 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:51 PM   #50
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Re: Naruto 607

It could be that, or Kishi is just a shitty writer.

Occam's Razor says it's the latter.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:37 PM   #51
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Re: Naruto 607

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Originally Posted by Aman Shahur View Post
minato is rin father...........i say it first..........thank for me when this come true.............
Is it possible to ban him from this forum yet, because we have some very intelligent people on this forum but reading & watching this guys posts makes me feel just stupid !!!
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:48 AM   #52
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Re: Naruto 607

You can't ban someone on account of being a shitty troll and all-around stupid. There's a wonderful thing called the ignore list, though.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:58 AM   #53
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Re: Naruto 607

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Originally Posted by ACt View Post
Sakura should have died like Rin. Kishi totally missed that parallel in development. Sasuke and Naruto needed to be able to get over her death to highlight the generations change from Obito and Kakashi's, who couldn't get over Rin's death.

I mean... it's so simple story telling I just don't know why Kishi never could pull it off. It's clear he's had no use or knowledge what to do with Sakura at all in Part II.
Maybe you've just predicted that miserable bitch's death.

Sasuke should just Tsukuyomi rape/kill her in front of Naruto, all in Genjutsu.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:59 AM   #54
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Re: Naruto 607

With all Madara taught Obito, him becoming good enough, to not get killed by Minato, is not that difficult to comprehend. He was never as strong as Minato, he got his ass kicked in that brief encounter. If anything, Obito has never used his powers like he did when slaughtering the Mist shinobi. That is the point of debate. We know he had the power.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:55 AM   #55
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Re: Naruto 607

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Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
With all Madara taught Obito, him becoming good enough, to not get killed by Minato, is not that difficult to comprehend.
It is when you look at the entire timeline. At most 13 months passed from the time Obito was crushed to the Kyuubi attack (Kakashi was 13 when the mission started, his birthday is in September, Kyuubi attack occurred in October of the next year (Naruto's birthday is October 10) which was 12 years prior to the start of the series when Kakashi was 26). In that time, Obito not only became strong enough to capture Kurama, but put Minato on his toes at the same time. Also, in that time, he grew 8 inches. Now, growth spurts can be an explanation, but a person doesn't grow 8 inches in the span of a year. At most, during the height of an adolescent's growth period, a male grows at a rate of 4 inches a year.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:20 AM   #56
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Re: Naruto 607

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
It is when you look at the entire timeline. At most 13 months passed from the time Obito was crushed to the Kyuubi attack (Kakashi was 13 when the mission started, his birthday is in September, Kyuubi attack occurred in October of the next year (Naruto's birthday is October 10) which was 12 years prior to the start of the series when Kakashi was 26). In that time, Obito not only became strong enough to capture Kurama, but put Minato on his toes at the same time.
Obito went from a totally useless fuck before he died to a raging beast when he slaughtered the mist shinobi. Now we don't know how many shinobi were present before he arrived on the scene, but once he snapped, he slaughtered them rather effortlessly, using his Mokuton abilities and usage of Kamui.

Obito's use of Kamui allows him to traverse large distances instantly. That can be attributed to Kamui. It's just an ability he has and can use it. Though him being that adept at it so soon is questionable. BUT, when you consider all that Madara taught him, it is not so far-fetched, considering Madara himself is a master of OP ass-pulls... and this when we still haven't seen all he has to offer.

Let's revert to the fight. Obito controlled Kurama with the Sharingan. How he managed that is something I don't have the answer to. It seems implausible and that is where I'm guessing that Madara's teachings have something to do with it. He might have inherited Madara's power or some abilities. We don't know. Though that seems to be the only logical answer.

As for fighting Minato, he really did nothing much. Using Kamui to travel long distances is something is different since it's something only he can do. Minato only exchanged a few blows with Obito (tried rather) before he figured out how to defeat him. Once the Rasengan attack landed, Obito fled the scene. It's only thanks to his intangibility that he survived. Otherwise there was nothing special about that fight. Minato would have been able to summon himself to this dimension even if he had gotten sucked into that dimension, so the result would have been the same.
Quote:
Also, in that time, he grew 8 inches. Now, growth spurts can be an explanation, but a person doesn't grow 8 inches in the span of a year. At most, during the height of an adolescent's growth period, a male grows at a rate of 4 inches a year.
That is something I still don't understand, but I still think that Madara had something to do with that. His growth spurt seems ridiculous considering he is taller than Minato while Kakashi hasn't grown all that much...
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:06 AM   #57
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Re: Naruto 607

Its proberbly the hasi Dna increasing his growth rate
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:07 AM   #58
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Re: Naruto 607

Wood Dragon, totally unecessary. What shown in one of the naruto games where 1st and Madara fought, was a good enough technique.

So thats what was behind naruto(the story). We waited over 10 years to find out this flashback is the cause/ the engine of the story? I mean, thats all? That flashback is meant to be the answer to all the mysterie that brought about this story we used to love?

Even when you guys used to whine about how bad naruto had become I still made myself like it, mainly because of the mystery of tobi and the desire to see things that happened before the begining of the series. Once Tobi's mask was off and Obito was revealed, 3quart of my interest in this series desapeared, now this crappy reasons for his actions and lazy plots and explanations e.g.

How did Tobi survive rocks = i dont know, guessits a miracle.
Why was Tobi taller = Zetsu suit(if someone else was Tobi all this crap explanations wouldnt be necessary)
How did Rin die and why = Kakashi chidoried her. Why? i dont know, dint bother finding out.
Why dint Obito ask why or kill kakashi = I dont care anymore!
How was Nagato given rinnegan = I put it without him or his family knowing or noticing.
etc.

Also why give hashirama such unecessarily haxed powers, when his victory can easily be explained by an immunity over the sharingan due to his special cells n chakra since him being made powerful now changes nothing apart from create plot hole in his battle against the 3rd and the concept of future generations stronger than the previious.
but offcourse, its to make Madara more of a threat, but its shown to be unnecesarry because if even yamato had the rinnegan he would be threat. So madara having Rinegan and wood element makes the whole hashirama hype totally unecessary.

Are you guys sure MASASHI KISHIMOTO is still the one writing this story and not some retconing douche who didn't bother to read the first 300 chapters before taking over.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:19 AM   #59
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Re: Naruto 607

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Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
Obito went from a totally useless fuck before he died to a raging beast when he slaughtered the mist shinobi. Now we don't know how many shinobi were present before he arrived on the scene, but once he snapped, he slaughtered them rather effortlessly, using his Mokuton abilities and usage of Kamui.

Obito's use of Kamui allows him to traverse large distances instantly. That can be attributed to Kamui. It's just an ability he has and can use it. Though him being that adept at it so soon is questionable. BUT, when you consider all that Madara taught him, it is not so far-fetched, considering Madara himself is a master of OP ass-pulls... and this when we still haven't seen all he has to offer.

Let's revert to the fight. Obito controlled Kurama with the Sharingan. How he managed that is something I don't have the answer to. It seems implausible and that is where I'm guessing that Madara's teachings have something to do with it. He might have inherited Madara's power or some abilities. We don't know. Though that seems to be the only logical answer.

As for fighting Minato, he really did nothing much. Using Kamui to travel long distances is something is different since it's something only he can do. Minato only exchanged a few blows with Obito (tried rather) before he figured out how to defeat him. Once the Rasengan attack landed, Obito fled the scene. It's only thanks to his intangibility that he survived. Otherwise there was nothing special about that fight. Minato would have been able to summon himself to this dimension even if he had gotten sucked into that dimension, so the result would have been the same.
...how exactly are you arguing against me? You basically admitted everything you originally stated was far more difficult to comprehend than you originally thought. In ~13 months Obito went from a fuck up that had just awakened his Sharingan, to taking complete control of Kurama AND fighting with the deadliest ninja in Konoha (at the same time, no less). There are no logical explanations for that amount of development. Even with Kamui's assistance, there's no way he could be able to fight on even footing, even for the short duration it was, with a guy that was given a "Flee on sight" order by every other nation.

By the way, this:

Quote:
Minato would have been able to summon himself to this dimension even if he had gotten sucked into that dimension, so the result would have been the same.
is pure speculation/fanning on your part. You have no reason to believe Minato could teleport out of the dimension Kamui uses. We don't know anything about that dimension. As far as we know, the only ones with access to it are Kakashi and Obito, and Obito is the only one that has been shown capable of bringing anything warped into it out.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:48 AM   #60
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Re: Naruto 607

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
...how exactly are you arguing against me? You basically admitted everything you originally stated was far more difficult to comprehend than you originally thought. In ~13 months Obito went from a fuck up that had just awakened his Sharingan, to taking complete control of Kurama AND fighting with the deadliest ninja in Konoha (at the same time, no less). There are no logical explanations for that amount of development.
Seriously, this was never even an argument. I said it wasn't incomprehensible. I never said it's completely logical, just that it's possible since so many questions and doubts have been left unanswered.
Quote:
Even with Kamui's assistance, there's no way he could be able to fight on even footing, even for the short duration it was, with a guy that was given a "Flee on sight" order by every other nation.
Except, Kamui is what saved Obito's ass. If he didn't have that, he wouldn't hold a candle to Minato considering he never used anything else during that fight. Minato outsmarted him at every step and wrested Kyubi's control from him. The moment Minato landed an attack on him, he knew he'd lost the battle and fled to save his skin. Minato had still tagged him so he could have followed him to kill him, but Kyubi was the greater threat.

You missed the entire context of my opinion. Obito 'tried' to fight Minato, but the moment Minato landed an attack, he fled. That is not standing toe to toe with Minato.

Considering, we know nothing about Obito's abilities, it's illogical on your part to decide that he should have been no match for Minato. He is Madara's legacy in a sense. Who knows what Madara taught him? It's evident that there's no semblance of logic or pragmatism when it comes to Madara and his abilities himself (or the Uchiha in general who've been OPd beyond belief). Kishi has just applied the same to Obito.

I never said that it made sense or was logical. It's just that it's not unbelievable. They're not the same. And I say this because I've long since stopped applying normal logic after being repeatedly fed scrap of garbage in this manga.
Quote:
is pure speculation/fanning on your part. You have no reason to believe Minato could teleport out of the dimension Kamui uses. We don't know anything about that dimension. As far as we know, the only ones with access to it are Kakashi and Obito, and Obito is the only one that has been shown capable of bringing anything warped into it out.
Speculation runs both ways, my friend. If I don't have the reason to believe that Minato could summon himself, then you have no reason to doubt Obito's strength either since you didn't know the complete list of his abilities. How he acquired them or whether it even made sense for him to have those abilities is definitely questionable and you're right on that stance.

Minato's jutsu is a summoning. Which means that he travels across dimensions to move from Point A to Point B. Irrespective of where he is, he should be able to move back to the real dimension from Kamui's alternative dimension since he has the summoning kunai that acts as a beacon here, and he already can summon himself at will.

Again, I don't go by absolute proof here, just my application of logic with regards to the applicability of the jutsu. Nothing more.
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