Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States - Page 2

Numinous · 11-12-2012, 05:36 PM

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde

It's not cold-hearted at all. However relating traffic jams to natural disasters as such is a bit inept. In a perfect world, I know of several civil engineers that have met with local and state gov't officials in both LA and MS about the measures that you hinted at as far as possible preventive measures for hurricanes go. The big problem there is insurance and costs. A small (land-wise) country like Japan is able to afford those measures because of their dense population. States like AL, LA, and MS are not that heavily populated, not even on the coast.

Considering 150 billions went to patch up the effects of Katrina, I seriously doubt the architectonic shifts needed to reduce future damage would amount such a number. I'd be happy if, at least, they stopped making wood houses on an hurricane-prone zone, it's just common sense that a stone & metal house might be pricier but isn't as expensive as building the same house every big hurricane.

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These factors were a huge part of my response, which in summing it up... somewhere between the Korean and Vietnam wars, the U.S. stopped relying so heavily on agriculture as an export, which is what made ag such a viable commodity towards the GDP before then. I'm guessing that just like manufacturing, cheaper labor is where the farms went. Tourism has been on the decline prior to 9/11 for obvious reasons as well as economic reasons (restaurants and local commerce fall under tourism in the tax code).

So US should just give up on those things because they're not what they used to be? By the contrary, if the government invests in order for those sectors to flourish, they'll produce as much revenue as an investment solely on industry. This shouldn't be "or industry or agriculture/tourism/etc", it should be "industry and agriculture/tourism/etc".

And, by the way, I didn't know tourism included restaurants and local commerce in tax revenue in the US. In my country they don't.

Vanity · 11-12-2012, 11:29 PM

Holy shit, fucking Southerners.

emachina · 11-13-2012, 06:46 AM

Obama is to republicans what Bush was to democrats. The shit is damn near identical, a incumbent that the other side hates vs. a rich guy from Massachusetts. The rich guy from Mass loses in a very close election. Dems threatened to secede and signed petitions back in 2004 also. It was just as dumb now with republicans as it was then with democrats.

All this shit aside, what is really pissing me off is Marco Rubio is attending a fund raising event this weekend for a 2016 candidacy. Motherfucker it hasn't even been a month, give us a break from the campaigning! I say we overthrow our government, replace with a 99% same government, the only difference is the President is determined by a MMA fight the first Tuesday of November. No campaigning, no broken promises, the biggest bad ass wins.

jekyl_hyde · 11-13-2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numinous

Considering 150 billions went to patch up the effects of Katrina, I seriously doubt the architectonic shifts needed to reduce future damage would amount such a number. I'd be happy if, at least, they stopped making wood houses on an hurricane-prone zone, it's just common sense that a stone & metal house might be pricier but isn't as expensive as building the same house every big hurricane.

My response is rather harsh to those that live in areas like that. I think/believe that if an individual/family live in a high risk area for a natural disaster, they should expect that said event could occur, and thusly, not expect a hand-out from the gov't. I do think though that the insurance companies should still offer insurance, but I don't blame the insurance companies for jacking up their prices. It's the whole risk-reward thing. At least here in the U.S., we now live in the Entitlement Age. Love him or hate him (not a big fan of him), but Bill O'Reilly said it perfectly on election night, "The American population no longer asks the question proposed by former Pres. JFK, 'Don't ask what your country can do for you. Ask what can you do for your country.'. The American populace is looking at which candidate can give or do the most for them."

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So US should just give up on those things because they're not what they used to be? By the contrary, if the government invests in order for those sectors to flourish, they'll produce as much revenue as an investment solely on industry. This shouldn't be "or industry or agriculture/tourism/etc", it should be "industry and agriculture/tourism/etc".

In a perfect world, that would be the case... but we don't live in perfection. I'm actually expecting a further decrease, because back home, I went to church with a lot of farmers that raised pigs for a big national distributor (Farmland) and they raised cattle on the side as well. From what my dad told me, their costs are expected to almost triple within the next year or two (result of natural disasters and tougher regulations). For about a year, restaurants have eaten the costs, but with this expected costs, they're saying that we could be looking at the price of what would be considered normal daily meats for meals tripling at the grocery store and butcher shop. Imagine a flat iron steak costing $40 US at the local store, not in a restaurant.

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And, by the way, I didn't know tourism included restaurants and local commerce in tax revenue in the US. In my country they don't.

I don't remember when it started, but it involved lobbyists. What was happening, was that in certain places, the local restaurants were severely out-gaining the chain restaurants at a ratio of about 15-1. I think it was NY or NJ that enacted the law at the state level first, and it started gaining ground in other states, and was written into the tax code in the 70's. Basically, anything that would cause a person to drive to another town to buy something, falls under tourism. So yes, even in your cow-towns in MT and some in TX have a tourism tax on gasoline.

T9F · 11-13-2012, 01:22 PM

Better idea: all the people who sign the petition can move to the moon with Newt Gingrich.

Numinous · 11-13-2012, 04:03 PM

@ j_H: You keep saying "in the perfect world", I think you're missing the full extent of the point I'm trying to drive across. What I said pertains to the hypothetical situation the US stops its current economical behavior and adopts a new, revolutionary one, so it's obvious the trends you talked about will continue and the things I say aren't executable if you only take into account what the US has been and still is.

Also, I can't really speak of welfare on the US since I'm not in the know on that area, but the commentaries against it I've found from Republicans are simply atrocious and anti-democratic. Like saying "I shouldn't pay for others' healthcare/food stamps/etc." when talking about taxes which by design are to pay services for all to use, it simply baffles me how some people are so willing to pull the rug under other people due to foolish pride.

@T9F: It's doubly funny considering there's an international treaty that makes the Moon exempt of any territorial claim. Newt Gingrich obviously didn't know that when he said the Moon charade.

Playa · 11-13-2012, 06:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Vanity

Holy shit, fucking Southerners.

I love you too Van...

jekyl_hyde · 11-13-2012, 08:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Numinous

@ j_H: You keep saying "in the perfect world", I think you're missing the full extent of the point I'm trying to drive across. What I said pertains to the hypothetical situation the US stops its current economical behavior and adopts a new, revolutionary one, so it's obvious the trends you talked about will continue and the things I say aren't executable if you only take into account what the US has been and still is.

Also, I can't really speak of welfare on the US since I'm not in the know on that area, but the commentaries against it I've found from Republicans are simply atrocious and anti-democratic. Like saying "I shouldn't pay for others' healthcare/food stamps/etc." when talking about taxes which by design are to pay services for all to use, it simply baffles me how some people are so willing to pull the rug under other people due to foolish pride.

I keep saying "in a perfect world", because both sides of the political aisle in the U.S. are screwing over the layman. I, along with just about every red-blooded American believes there needs to be some form of healthcare reform in the U.S. I just strongly believe that Obama's version isn't the way of going about it. There are nurses already being laid off at doctors' clinics. Several doctors at smaller hospitals are quitting. Numerous employers are already scaling back on employer-covered insurance policies. His version of the reform is furthering the cause/reasoning as to why reform was needed in the first place. The only people who are going to come out on top in the end is the health insurance companies.

There are several people who are against contributing to a program that helps even those that need it. Most people, like myself, don't want to contribute to a program that is severely abused by crooks and thiefs. I'm all for helping out a single parent, or a low-income family that literally scrapes by to pay the bills, by contributing to a food stamps program. That was me and my family several months ago. It got to the point of either falling behind by two months on all of our bills, or putting food on the table. My wife and I applied for food stamps, we were on the program for about 6 months, and we're off the program now. We don't need it anymore.

But back to the perfect world issue, everywhere in the world there are crooks. Crooks in the upper echelon of society, all the way to the bottom shelf so to speak. After all of our discussions, I'm sure you know where my political tendencies lie, but I'm one of the apparent minority that understands balance is needed in the real world. I'm all for off-shore drilling for oil, but I understand the concerns over certain eco-systems... because I love food.

stubborn_d0nkey · 11-14-2012, 06:27 AM

Silly people, talking about the economy when it all the Texans want are (more) guns.

Numinous · 11-14-2012, 08:48 AM

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde

I keep saying "in a perfect world", because both sides of the political aisle in the U.S. are screwing over the layman. I, along with just about every red-blooded American believes there needs to be some form of healthcare reform in the U.S. I just strongly believe that Obama's version isn't the way of going about it. There are nurses already being laid off at doctors' clinics. Several doctors at smaller hospitals are quitting. Numerous employers are already scaling back on employer-covered insurance policies. His version of the reform is furthering the cause/reasoning as to why reform was needed in the first place. The only people who are going to come out on top in the end is the health insurance companies.

To be perfectly honest, both the lobbyists and Republicans are to blame for how the healthcare reform has become. The first bunch made sure insurance companies would still relevant and the latter were dimwits that cared much more about complaining than actually doing something about it. If Obama was allowed to emulate the Scandinavian or German models of healthcare, nobody would fucking complain except the insurance companies that would become an expensive luxury, not a necessity. Heck, even if he emulated the Portuguese model, it'd be leaps beyond that travesty you guys have for healthcare.

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There are several people who are against contributing to a program that helps even those that need it. Most people, like myself, don't want to contribute to a program that is severely abused by crooks and thiefs. I'm all for helping out a single parent, or a low-income family that literally scrapes by to pay the bills, by contributing to a food stamps program. That was me and my family several months ago. It got to the point of either falling behind by two months on all of our bills, or putting food on the table. My wife and I applied for food stamps, we were on the program for about 6 months, and we're off the program now. We don't need it anymore.

Talking from experience, yes, pensions are abused by some people as anything is, but it's such a small minority that is way blown out of proportion by the anti-taxes douchebags it's not even funny. And, no matter the poor excuses, denying to pay taxes that help people, may they need them or not, is simply anti-democratic, bordering the fascist. The majority of people on welfare need it and shouldn't be screwed over by a thieving minority. And let's not forget people already pay taxes for firemen, police, water supply, road & sewers maintenance and many others services, and there are also moochers in those sectors, but I bet they won't stop paying those taxes unless they want their house burned into a crisp or something similar.

And like you alluded to, they might need it in the future, wouldn't they want a safety net they already contributed to in the past instead of leaving under the bridge?

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But back to the perfect world issue, everywhere in the world there are crooks. Crooks in the upper echelon of society, all the way to the bottom shelf so to speak. After all of our discussions, I'm sure you know where my political tendencies lie, but I'm one of the apparent minority that understands balance is needed in the real world. I'm all for off-shore drilling for oil, but I understand the concerns over certain eco-systems... because I love food.

I think anyone with a brain is for balance, but where people diverge in opinion is in how that balance should be met. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be a right-wing moderate, both in social and financial issues, while I'm on the same moderate spot, but on the left-wing. You give the example of off-shore drilling, although I'm for the US to get some autonomy on its fuel needs, I'm much more for the US starting a serious investment on renewable sources of energy. Portugal made audacious bets on hydraulic, solar and wind energies (and our reliance on fossil fuels is pretty much for home supply of gas, cars and akin vehicles and we have 0% of nuclear energy) and for the last 5 years we're actually able to export energy. Sure, the pinwheels on top of almost every mountain range look silly, but they work and have been proven to have very minimal interference on wild life.

Edit: It seems that the number of petitioning states went beyond thirty.

jekyl_hyde · 11-14-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numinous

To be perfectly honest, both the lobbyists and Republicans are to blame for how the healthcare reform has become.

Interesting little tidbit for ya... the insurance companies donated 30x more to Democratic candidates than Republican candidates this past election. So that argument has no validity what-so-ever. Hence why Lewis Black said it so famously, "Our political party system is a bowl of sh!t sitting in the mirror staring at itself. One is a party of no ideas, and the other a party of bad ideas."

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Talking from experience, yes, pensions are abused by some people as anything is, but it's such a small minority that is way blown out of proportion by the anti-taxes douchebags it's not even funny. And, no matter the poor excuses, denying to pay taxes that help people, may they need them or not, is simply anti-democratic, bordering the fascist. The majority of people on welfare need it and shouldn't be screwed over by a thieving minority. And let's not forget people already pay taxes for firemen, police, water supply, road & sewers maintenance and many others services, and there are also moochers in those sectors, but I bet they won't stop paying those taxes unless they want their house burned into a crisp or something similar.

Minimizing and eliminating taxes are two different things. I want taxes minimized. And as far as your statement about people abusing the system being a minority, is laughable. The number of people on welfare doubled under Bill Clinton. This was the man who is famous for bringing jobs to the U.S. (which isn't the complete truth by the way).

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And like you alluded to, they might need it in the future, wouldn't they want a safety net they already contributed to in the past instead of leaving under the bridge?

You would think so, but there are many who are searching for other means already. I've heard of several small business owners starting their own insurance firms (which is how many were started out in the first place, friends insuring friends).

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I think anyone with a brain is for balance, but where people diverge in opinion is in how that balance should be met. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be a right-wing moderate, both in social and financial issues, while I'm on the same moderate spot, but on the left-wing. You give the example of off-shore drilling, although I'm for the US to get some autonomy on its fuel needs, I'm much more for the US starting a serious investment on renewable sources of energy. Portugal made audacious bets on hydraulic, solar and wind energies (and our reliance on fossil fuels is pretty much for home supply of gas, cars and akin vehicles and we have 0% of nuclear energy) and for the last 5 years we're actually able to export energy. Sure, the pinwheels on top of almost every mountain range look silly, but they work and have been proven to have very minimal interference on wild life.

Edit: It seems that the number of petitioning states went beyond thirty.

I wouldn't even say I'm a moderate. I have conservative tendencies, but I understand the need for balance. As of two years ago, there was a big push by several Republicans to explore nuclear energy. It's the cleanest form of energy that is efficient (wind isn't) and cheapest. The big oil companies (both foreign and domestic) fought it off alongside several Democrats citing environmental concerns. All I know is that I wouldn't mind having a utility bill being under $50.00, with the a/c or heat running all month long, non-stop.

What it boils down to is that both parties are at fault. Politicians on both sides aren't "fighting" for the constituents, but for their pockets. That's why I've been under the notion that not a single incumbent should be re-elected unless he/she fulfilled all of their campaign promises. That's why I don't think people should vote for a candidate, but for a stance. In the U.S., there is always going to be "yellow dog" Democrats and "die hard" Republicans.

Numinous · 11-14-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde

Interesting little tidbit for ya... the insurance companies donated 30x more to Democratic candidates than Republican candidates this past election. So that argument has no validity what-so-ever. Hence why Lewis Black said it so famously, "Our political party system is a bowl of sh!t sitting in the mirror staring at itself. One is a party of no ideas, and the other a party of bad ideas."

My point has no validity? You came with "Obama's version of healthcare" when the end result wasn't even what Obama at least promised: an healthcare plan similar to those of North Europe. So what if Democrats received more bribes than Republicans? I'm not saying they're not to blame because they crumbled before the lobbyists, but at least they had a plan for healthcare, all I heard from the Republicans was a whinefest and no solution with head, torso and limbs. So blaming the diatribes of the current healthcare plan on the Democrats is horribly misguided.

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Minimizing and eliminating taxes are two different things. I want taxes minimized.

How much do you pay in each individual tax? Just asking because I need to know whether your complaint to lower taxes has validity.

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And as far as your statement about people abusing the system being a minority, is laughable.

My first thought on this was "fuck this guy". I'm serious. Sure, I don't live in the US, but overall behavior in the US can't be the Bizarro's World version of where I live considering we both live in 1st world regions that belong to bigger political unions. Here, sure there are moochers that suck on unemployment pensions as much as they can without looking for a job, but it's a minority that I doubt it even breaks the 5% of all those who live of welfare. I see people crowding both the Social Security and Employment Institute centers looking for a job or a pension to put food on their tables. Granted both poverty and unemployment are higher here, but c'mon, to say the moochers outnumber the needy considering a poverty rate of 15% is delusional.

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The number of people on welfare doubled under Bill Clinton. This was the man who is famous for bringing jobs to the U.S. (which isn't the complete truth by the way).

And just now you flunked on your research. Bill Clinton revised welfare in 1996 and you know what are the percentages of welfare before and after the revision? The recipiency rate lowered from a mean of 17% to a mean of 15% and a dependency rate went from 5.5% to 3.7%. Gee, if I didn't know better, I'd say the opposite happened! And, by what I read of the Act Bill Clinton signed, it was meant to exclude people from being candidates for welfare, like certain single mothers, so saying it doubled due to the Act seems a paradox.

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You would think so, but there are many who are searching for other means already. I've heard of several small business owners starting their own insurance firms (which is how many were started out in the first place, friends insuring friends).

Yes, because relying on insurance firms that charge you for quite a bit is sooo much better than having a federal safety net that depends on taxes that are already paid. Are those people really that allergic to empathy?

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I wouldn't even say I'm a moderate. I have conservative tendencies, but I understand the need for balance.

Well, I said moderate because you're not as nutty as what I'd say an American conservative is. But if you consider yourself conservative, sure, you certainly are in an European context.

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As of two years ago, there was a big push by several Republicans to explore nuclear energy. It's the cleanest form of energy that is efficient (wind isn't) and cheapest.

Stop right there. Whoever told you that wind energy isn't efficient was lying with all the teeth they had in their mouths. Sure the initial cost vs profit rate is negative during many months and the production does fluctuate, but it's very efficient and here's the kicker: in days of high winds, wind power can produce 2/3 of the total energy of a country as both Portugal and Spain have verified. That's 4 times what wind energy represents in those countries.

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The big oil companies (both foreign and domestic) fought it off alongside several Democrats citing environmental concerns. All I know is that I wouldn't mind having a utility bill being under $50.00, with the a/c or heat running all month long, non-stop.

Oh the irony, 15% of my electricity bill comes from wind power and I never paid more than 40 Euros for it.

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What it boils down to is that both parties are at fault. Politicians on both sides aren't "fighting" for the constituents, but for their pockets. That's why I've been under the notion that not a single incumbent should be re-elected unless he/she fulfilled all of their campaign promises. That's why I don't think people should vote for a candidate, but for a stance. In the U.S., there is always going to be "yellow dog" Democrats and "die hard" Republicans.

Read the "longest thread ever" on the spam zone. Many people, including me, already discussed ways to shift the paradigm of USA's bipartisan bickering.

jekyl_hyde · 11-14-2012, 03:44 PM

@Num

As far as the healthcare issue goes, there has been the Ryan Plan, the Paul plan, and other various plans that have been shot down by liberals and the MSM. There are other plans, some that I prefer to others. I would seriously take tidbits from all and use them as one plan, but that requires too much common sense from our politicians.

On the energy issue, wind can be a viable source for smaller countries, but for a countries that are large, the cost isn't proficient to the possible dividends, especially considering what is considered "prime real estate" for the farms. At one point the largest wind farm (in the U.S.) was going to be constructed about 50 miles NNE of Joplin, MO, the "heart" of Tornado Alley. The last proposed plan for continental nuclear energy for the U.S. required roughly seven nuclear power plants on the national scale. One at each major regional station and three in between those. When also considering the numerous natural rivers in the U.S. that could be used as natural cooling stations for the plants, it makes too much sense. It would also alleviate some of the possible flooding for those river banks.

On the taxes issue, it all depends on which state you live in. U.S. citizens are required to pay an income tax, which is supposed to fund the majority of all federal programs. At the state and local levels; tourism, sales, and property taxes are supposed to be used to fund the programs at those levels. What is upsetting, is that here in MD, this past year, state and local politicians took over $350 million out of the education fund. MD is a Democrat heavy state. This info was provided by the State treasurer (also a Dem) at his website (due to question 7, voting for a casino in Baltimore, MD) campaigning against that particular event. I haven't looked at the CAMFR, but not a single politician disputed that claim. If I were to stay a resident in Baltimore Co., there will be an increase on the tourism tax, and based on what these politicians did here, basically stealing from the education fund.... can you blame anyone for not trusting these goofballs. It pisses me off when politicians on both sides scream and cry education, and then steal from it.

P.s.
Also, what is the sq. footage of your residence? Right now, my family is living in 2200 sq.ft. (roughly 600 sq. ft is the garage), 3 level town-home.

kluang · 11-15-2012, 07:07 AM

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...erica/dmQl1bXL

Numinous · 11-15-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde

@Num
As far as the healthcare issue goes, there has been the Ryan Plan, the Paul plan, and other various plans that have been shot down by liberals and the MSM. There are other plans, some that I prefer to others. I would seriously take tidbits from all and use them as one plan, but that requires too much common sense from our politicians.

First, US is the only country that isn't my own that I follow the news religiously and only now I'm hearing of these plans. When Obamacare was a big thing, what I saw was Republicans scream "DEATH PANELS!! SOCIALISM!! THE COUNTRY WILL BE DESTROYED BY IT!" and other nonsensical counterarguments to it. I did not for once saw those Republican plans being properly discussed by the media.

And now that I've read them... dude, they're horrible! Ryan's plan could very well be renamed "Off-with-their-heads plan".

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On the energy issue, wind can be a viable source for smaller countries, but for a countries that are large, the cost isn't proficient to the possible dividends, especially considering what is considered "prime real estate" for the farms. At one point the largest wind farm (in the U.S.) was going to be constructed about 50 miles NNE of Joplin, MO, the "heart" of Tornado Alley.

What. You clearly are misinformed, since China is aiming to have wind energy to represent 12% of total energy 2015 and both Harvard and Tsinghua said that it can reach 100% (yes, 100%) by 2030 so wind power clearly can power a big country, it's just that small countries will obviously notice the effects much earlier.

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The last proposed plan for continental nuclear energy for the U.S. required roughly seven nuclear power plants on the national scale. One at each major regional station and three in between those. When also considering the numerous natural rivers in the U.S. that could be used as natural cooling stations for the plants, it makes too much sense. It would also alleviate some of the possible flooding for those river banks.

So those rivers are completely void of wild life? Because even the warming of the waters can disturb or downright destroy habitats, so using rivers as cooling systems is an horrible practice when a cooling tower could be built and simply use canalized water or a body of water specifically designed for that purpose.

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On the taxes issue, it all depends on which state you live in. U.S. citizens are required to pay an income tax, which is supposed to fund the majority of all federal programs. At the state and local levels; tourism, sales, and property taxes are supposed to be used to fund the programs at those levels.

I asked for what percentages you pay in taxes, not what taxes you paid since every tax you named we also have it here.

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What is upsetting, is that here in MD, this past year, state and local politicians took over $350 million out of the education fund. MD is a Democrat heavy state. This info was provided by the State treasurer (also a Dem) at his website (due to question 7, voting for a casino in Baltimore, MD) campaigning against that particular event. I haven't looked at the CAMFR, but not a single politician disputed that claim. If I were to stay a resident in Baltimore Co., there will be an increase on the tourism tax, and based on what these politicians did here, basically stealing from the education fund.... can you blame anyone for not trusting these goofballs. It pisses me off when politicians on both sides scream and cry education, and then steal from it.

... and corruption affects both wings of politics. Congratulations, you said what everybody knows. You want it to go away? Push for alternative ways to both govern and elect, push for your representatives to do the same Iceland did and let the Interpol hounds search out the shenanigans.

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P.s.
Also, what is the sq. footage of your residence? Right now, my family is living in 2200 sq.ft. (roughly 600 sq. ft is the garage), 3 level town-home.

Oh the imperial system, making me think it's a damn big house only to realize a square feet is roughly 0.09 square meters. So your house is roughly 204 square meters. Mine isn't that far off, it has 192 square meters divided by two levels.

11-12-2012, 11:29 PM	#17
Vanity Succumb Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 976 Thanks: 3,432 Thanked 5,983 Times in 2,238 Posts	Re: Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States Holy shit, fucking Southerners. __________________ My nerves are bad to-night. Yes, bad. Stay with me. Speak to me. Why do you never speak? Speak. What are you thinking of? What thinking? What? I never know what you are thinking. Think.

11-13-2012, 06:46 AM	#18
emachina Jounin Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 809 Thanks: 427 Thanked 596 Times in 197 Posts	Re: Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States Obama is to republicans what Bush was to democrats. The shit is damn near identical, a incumbent that the other side hates vs. a rich guy from Massachusetts. The rich guy from Mass loses in a very close election. Dems threatened to secede and signed petitions back in 2004 also. It was just as dumb now with republicans as it was then with democrats. All this shit aside, what is really pissing me off is Marco Rubio is attending a fund raising event this weekend for a 2016 candidacy. Motherfucker it hasn't even been a month, give us a break from the campaigning! I say we overthrow our government, replace with a 99% same government, the only difference is the President is determined by a MMA fight the first Tuesday of November. No campaigning, no broken promises, the biggest bad ass wins. __________________ One Piece! Hell Yeah!

11-13-2012, 01:22 PM	#20
T9F OOOH CHAMPAGNE Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 293 Thanks: 1,482 Thanked 1,159 Times in 420 Posts	Re: Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States Better idea: all the people who sign the petition can move to the moon with Newt Gingrich.

11-13-2012, 04:03 PM	#21
Numinous Writing speed: snail Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Porto, Portugal Posts: 4,882 Thanks: 8,498 Thanked 11,599 Times in 4,000 Posts	Re: Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States @ j_H: You keep saying "in the perfect world", I think you're missing the full extent of the point I'm trying to drive across. What I said pertains to the hypothetical situation the US stops its current economical behavior and adopts a new, revolutionary one, so it's obvious the trends you talked about will continue and the things I say aren't executable if you only take into account what the US has been and still is. Also, I can't really speak of welfare on the US since I'm not in the know on that area, but the commentaries against it I've found from Republicans are simply atrocious and anti-democratic. Like saying "I shouldn't pay for others' healthcare/food stamps/etc." when talking about taxes which by design are to pay services for all to use, it simply baffles me how some people are so willing to pull the rug under other people due to foolish pride. @T9F: It's doubly funny considering there's an international treaty that makes the Moon exempt of any territorial claim. Newt Gingrich obviously didn't know that when he said the Moon charade. __________________ My writings: Waters of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2 Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1- 2 - 3 Björk Season My Top 25 Non-Romantic Songs Last edited by Numinous; 11-13-2012 at 06:31 PM.

11-14-2012, 03:44 PM	#28
jekyl_hyde Hunter-Nin Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,022 Thanks: 612 Thanked 1,047 Times in 399 Posts	Re: Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States @Num As far as the healthcare issue goes, there has been the Ryan Plan, the Paul plan, and other various plans that have been shot down by liberals and the MSM. There are other plans, some that I prefer to others. I would seriously take tidbits from all and use them as one plan, but that requires too much common sense from our politicians. On the energy issue, wind can be a viable source for smaller countries, but for a countries that are large, the cost isn't proficient to the possible dividends, especially considering what is considered "prime real estate" for the farms. At one point the largest wind farm (in the U.S.) was going to be constructed about 50 miles NNE of Joplin, MO, the "heart" of Tornado Alley. The last proposed plan for continental nuclear energy for the U.S. required roughly seven nuclear power plants on the national scale. One at each major regional station and three in between those. When also considering the numerous natural rivers in the U.S. that could be used as natural cooling stations for the plants, it makes too much sense. It would also alleviate some of the possible flooding for those river banks. On the taxes issue, it all depends on which state you live in. U.S. citizens are required to pay an income tax, which is supposed to fund the majority of all federal programs. At the state and local levels; tourism, sales, and property taxes are supposed to be used to fund the programs at those levels. What is upsetting, is that here in MD, this past year, state and local politicians took over $350 million out of the education fund. MD is a Democrat heavy state. This info was provided by the State treasurer (also a Dem) at his website (due to question 7, voting for a casino in Baltimore, MD) campaigning against that particular event. I haven't looked at the CAMFR, but not a single politician disputed that claim. If I were to stay a resident in Baltimore Co., there will be an increase on the tourism tax, and based on what these politicians did here, basically stealing from the education fund.... can you blame anyone for not trusting these goofballs. It pisses me off when politicians on both sides scream and cry education, and then steal from it. P.s. Also, what is the sq. footage of your residence? Right now, my family is living in 2200 sq.ft. (roughly 600 sq. ft is the garage), 3 level town-home. Last edited by jekyl_hyde; 11-14-2012 at 03:47 PM.

11-15-2012, 07:07 AM	#29
kluang One Punch Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,418 Thanks: 3,186 Thanked 4,658 Times in 2,099 Posts	Re: Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...erica/dmQl1bXL __________________ To err is human, to forgive, divine. Humans aren't machines... they have souls, feelings. They live, they die, they love, they hate... And yes, they even make mistakes..... When kluang finds you creepy and wrong then you are beyond horrible. He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Being Malaysian is about driving in a German car to an Indian restaurant for an Indonesian food, then travelling home, grabbing a Pakistani kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV. Because we have no originality. Last edited by kluang; 11-15-2012 at 07:12 AM.

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