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Old 03-01-2013, 03:12 PM   #61
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Re: Bleach 528

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
This is shown when Urahara approached and asked "How does it feel to take the form of a shinigami that you abandoned 20 years ago?"

So, to sum it up. Timeline = 20 years before the series (5 years before Ichigo is born (not all couples have kids immediately after getting married)) Isshin loses his powers through unknown means (assumed to be Final Getsuga Tensho, not confirmed) after meeting/being saved by Masaki.

-Leaves 7th division, since we don't know when Komamura took the spot after Love was exiled.
First... thanks for finding that page kael. I remembered Urahara had said something of that nature, just couldn't remember how long it was, and where to find it.

So if Kubo is going to follow his databook, Isshin was either the 7th Division Captain or part of the Zero squad (Unless Kubo does a fuck up and has him in the 10th division).
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:33 PM   #62
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Re: Bleach 528

Those who think he is part of zero squad, what merits earn him a spot?? No offense if he's your favorite but this chapter shows he's weak... Though i will have to agree if being the first to fuck a quincy place him there.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:45 PM   #63
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Re: Bleach 528

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Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
Those who think he is part of zero squad, what merits earn him a spot?? No offense if he's your favorite but this chapter shows he's weak... Though i will have to agree if being the first to fuck a quincy place him there.
How about the fact that he flicked Aizen with a finger and sent the dude flying? To say this chapter shows that he is weak could be jumping to a conclusion.

We've already seen that Isshin knows about the Final Getsuga Tenshou and what it does to the user. Nothing has been implied yet, but looking at the evidence that kael produced... he was Zero squad, 7th division captain, or Kubo just fucked everything up like Kishi did with the Obito flashback (which is a viable possibility). We know Isshin was a captain/captain level.

It doesn't take much to do the math.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:21 PM   #64
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Re: Bleach 528

You can just look at the muscular body build that Isshin has and tell that he's physically strong, so his finger flick against Aizen doesn't mean much. All in all, he did just a little better against Aizen then Urahara or Yourichi, which seems to imply he isn't strong enough to be in Zero Squad, since those guys would have to be at least 3 times stronger then your average captain if you believe their hype that the 5 of them are stronger then the Gotei 13.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:29 PM   #65
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Re: Bleach 528

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
You can just look at the muscular body build that Isshin has and tell that he's physically strong, so his finger flick against Aizen doesn't mean much. All in all, he did just a little better against Aizen then Urahara or Yourichi, which seems to imply he isn't strong enough to be in Zero Squad, since those guys would have to be at least 3 times stronger then your average captain if you believe their hype that the 5 of them are stronger then the Gotei 13.
So you're telling me the guy who sends the person who is trying to become "God" flying with just the flick of a finger is about to do so because he is built???? C'mon man... you gotta come up with something better than that. I know it's Friday night and you may be knocking a few back... but seriously?

Like I said, based on the evidence that kael produced... there are three options:
1. Zero squad
2. 7th division captain
3. Kubo fucked things up

It's that simple. I mean Ichigo is going to be the end all for this manga, why not have him come from the lineage of one of the strongest shinigamis (which will probably show to be one of the strongest noble families in the upcoming chapters as well). We know Isshin was a shinigami 20 years ago (captain level mind you), but he wasn't around in the pendulum arc.

My money is on him being Zero squad.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:44 PM   #66
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Re: Bleach 528

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
So you're telling me the guy who sends the person who is trying to become "God" flying with just the flick of a finger is about to do so because he is built???? C'mon man... you gotta come up with something better than that. I know it's Friday night and you may be knocking a few back... but seriously?

Like I said, based on the evidence that kael produced... there are three options:
1. Zero squad
2. 7th division captain
3. Kubo fucked things up

It's that simple. I mean Ichigo is going to be the end all for this manga, why not have him come from the lineage of one of the strongest shinigamis (which will probably show to be one of the strongest noble families in the upcoming chapters as well). We know Isshin was a shinigami 20 years ago (captain level mind you), but he wasn't around in the pendulum arc.

My money is on him being Zero squad.
Ironically enough I don't even drink :P

And yes I'm saying Isshin did it with pure physical strength. The guy is built like a freaking tank. It's not like that attack really did any damage. It just simply knocking him around a bit. LOL, just look at how a scrawny little guy like Ulquiorra was tossing Ichigo through pillars of stone, like it's nothing. Gin did the same shit also, as well as numerous other people have sent people flying without actually harming them. Not a big feat really.


My money is on Isshin merely being a captain.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:57 PM   #67
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Re: Bleach 528

J_H, you should already know that basing your merit just on flicking aizen alone is not enough. If you take into account Aizen was at his limit of shinigami due to numerous battle beforehand too and also what happen next with urohara coming into the mix makes it impossible to gave him all the credits alone. Furthermore, why is Aizen set as the bar for entry to zero squad.

Anyway, my question was because its stated that all the members of the Royal Guard, were people acknowledged by the Soul King to have made significant contributions to the history of Soul Society. Thus wondering if i miss something there in regards to Isshin cause i skipped pages when reading bleach.

Edit: Read Kael posts. I understood he was dismissing the possibility of Isshin being the 10th Captain but not crediting the possibility of him being in the zero squad.

Last edited by Gamabunta; 03-01-2013 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:19 PM   #68
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Re: Bleach 528

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Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
J_H, you should already know that basing your merit just on flicking aizen alone is not enough. If you take into account Aizen was at his limit of shinigami due to numerous battle beforehand too and also what happen next with urohara coming into the mix makes it impossible to gave him all the credits alone. Furthermore, why is Aizen set as the bar for entry to zero squad.

Anyway, my question was because its stated that all the members of the Royal Guard, were people acknowledged by the Soul King to have made significant contributions to the history of Soul Society. Thus wondering if i miss something there in regards to Isshin cause i skipped pages when reading bleach.

Edit: Read Kael posts. I understood he was dismissing the possibility of Isshin being the 10th Captain but not crediting the possibility of him being in the zero squad.
As I've already posted, based on the evidence kael brought forth, there are basically two options as to which position Isshin held as a shinigami: a) 7th division captain or b) Zero squad. There is a third option, but it opens a can of worms, that's basically Kubo saying "fuck it".

Also, based on the evidence kael provided (once again, thanks for finding that page) shows that Urahara knew that Isshin was a shinigami 20 years ago during the conclusion of the Aizen arc. But Isshin was nowhere to be seen during the Pendulum arc. That's 80 years with no Isshin. We also know Isshin wasn't a substitute shinigami, because there have only been two, Ginjo and Ichigo. Where was Isshin during that time, because he wasn't with Masaki (she's human)? But we know that Aizen knew of Isshin to be a shinigami, as well as of Masaki being a quincy (heavily inferred during Aizen's last fight with Ichigo).

And then you bring up the quality of what entitles a shinigami to be a part of Zero squad. Until we see the other two Zero squad members power/quality that they brought forth for shinigami, that's poor writing by Kubo (1st guy was probably the best healer, 1st girl replenished reiatsu {really... c'mon}, 2nd guy created zanpaktou {the 1st viable person to fit this measure in all honesty}), we know that Isshin is a healer (doctor) and has developed the maneuver in which the shinigami and zanpaktou become one entity (based on the ones seen so far, this would be the 2nd best imo, because I would consider it an improvement/continuation/piggyback off of the zanpaktou creator).

Granted there are a lot of unknowns, and I'm not saying this is the definitive answer. What I'm saying is, right now, you can't discount it... you can't deny it. Keep an open mind. I'm just hoping that Kubo doesn't go shit on his product like Kishi did with Naruto.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:02 AM   #69
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Re: Bleach 528

Kael does not provide evidence that Isshin belongs to zero squad. All he states is that hes not from 10th div and possibly be in anywhere else including cheerleading squad if one exist.

But im asking what Isshin does that bring you to conclude he belongs to cheerlearding squad (i mean zero squad) or else kubo fucked up?

So far i got nothing except he sent aizen flying, is there something i miss like Ishhin wearing a short skirt and does acrobatic splits to merit the thoughts that he could be from the cheerleading squad?

Edit: No punt intended only curious why the random claim he could be from zero squad. He could just be an ordinary captain for all we know unless something i miss.

Last edited by Gamabunta; 03-02-2013 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:11 AM   #70
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Re: Bleach 528

I don't believe isshin is from zero squad since they aren't captains and he stated he was a captain to masaki along with still wearing a portion of his haori around his arm.

Le edit: btw, J_H this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
1st girl replenished reiatsu {really... c'mon},
is wrong. Hikifune's contribution that led her to be promoted to the Zero Squad wasn't the reiatsu replenishing feasts, it was creating Artificial Souls.

Another "btw", I linked that damn page like 5 or 6 times to get apacalyps to understand his timeline was incredibly wrong.

Last edited by kael03; 03-02-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:29 AM   #71
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Re: Bleach 528

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Hikifune's contribution that led her to be promoted to the Zero Squad wasn't the reiatsu replenishing feasts, it was creating Artificial Souls.
Thanks for the correction (completely forgot about that one, but what she did for Renji and Ichigo was just replenish their reiatsu). And learn how to be thanked for once in your life. There is a difference between intent and impact.

@Gamabunta
Quote:
-10th division is confirmed as a "no". The captain before Toshiro was killed in combat about 110 years ago (confirmed in the manga). Databook confirmed that the spot was vacant until Toshiro got it.
-11th Division is confirmed as a "no". 110 years ago it was confirmed to be the 10th Kenpachi. Zaraki is the 11th Kenpachi (confirmed by the databooks). The 9th Kenpachi was killed some time before the Turn Back the Pendulum arc, dismissing Isshin since he was still a Shinigami as of 20 years before the series started.
-1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, and 13th are a "no". 1st, 4th, 8th, and 13th divisions have had the same captains for the past 1000 years. 12th has had Maryuri as Captain since Urahara left (he was left in charge of the research division, should anything have happened to Urahara, and with no lieutenant he took captain).

-3rd, 5th, and 9th have had Gin, Aizen, and Tosen since after 100 years ago. Those spots are eliminated.

-Leaves 7th division, since we don't know when Komamura took the spot after Love was exiled.
This section of kael's post pretty much sums up that there were only two viable options for where Isshin served, the 7th division or Zero squad. And then there is the 3rd option that Kubo just fucked everything up.

Isshin was a shinigami 20 years ago, but was not seen in the Pendulum arc, which was 100 years ago. Is it really that hard to fathom that Isshin could be Zero squad?

Like I said:
Quote:
Granted there are a lot of unknowns, and I'm not saying this is the definitive answer. What I'm saying is, right now, you can't discount it... you can't deny it. Keep an open mind. I'm just hoping that Kubo doesn't go shit on his product like Kishi did with Naruto.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:02 PM   #72
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Re: Bleach 528

Think it this way, with Aizen 'powered up' he was afraid of Yama, whom got owned by Juha Bach, whom would stand what kind of a chance from any of the Zero Squad from what we've seen? If Kenpachi could kill 3 in a subdued state, that means he was prolly operating on 20% of a Zero Squad member taking down those guys IMHO, or best guess. Do we think that Zero Squad Members could've gotten they're Bankai stolen? I don't either.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:30 PM   #73
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Re: Bleach 528

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Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
Think it this way, with Aizen 'powered up' he was afraid of Yama, whom got owned by Juha Bach, whom would stand what kind of a chance from any of the Zero Squad from what we've seen? If Kenpachi could kill 3 in a subdued state, that means he was prolly operating on 20% of a Zero Squad member taking down those guys IMHO, or best guess. Do we think that Zero Squad Members could've gotten they're Bankai stolen? I don't either.
I'm not even going to get started on Yama, WW, and Aizen (Aizen's subordinate did neutralize Yama in that arc afterall). But about your statement of the Zero squad losing their bankai... you do realize from this point forward Isshin, Kenpachi, Urahara, and the Zero squad are all going to be benchmarks for Ichigo.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:56 PM   #74
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Re: Bleach 528

@Jekly_Hyde

You're just cheerleading Isshin to be from zero squad merely on baseless hype and your favorite, "kael post showing Isshin is not from 10th division thus he could be from anywhere". And you side-step my question after failing to provide more than pointless Isshin flicked Aizen as a merit he could be from zero squad.
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:31 AM   #75
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Re: Bleach 528

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@Jekly_Hyde

You're just cheerleading Isshin to be from zero squad merely on baseless hype and your favorite, "kael post showing Isshin is not from 10th division thus he could be from anywhere". And you side-step my question after failing to provide more than pointless Isshin flicked Aizen as a merit he could be from zero squad.
You're showing that you have no idea what process of elimination is. kael's post reveals that the only two viable options for Isshin where what I've stated.

You also asked what was Isshin's contribution to become Zero squad. My answer was he developed a technique that allowed the shinigami and zanpaktou to essentially become one.

Isshin is not the protagonist of this story. Ichigo is. That's why Yama, Isshin, nor Urahara took down Aizen single-handedly themselves. It took Urahara placing a kido inside of Aizen and Ichigo pushing Aizen to that limit with his final Getsuga Tenshou. Yama never did jack-shit to Aizen, never. Hell, no one is SS did. The only people to show that they could go toe-to-toe with Aizen have been Urahara, Isshin, and Ichigo.

You keep asking me to prove that Isshin is Zero squad, you can't prove he isn't. Not until Kubo tells us. There has only been one manga that successfully crossed over to the western world that didn't have the father of the protagonist not be of higher/noble standing... and that's Dragonball.

And just so you know, a good writer doesn't give away the reveal until the right moment. It would have made zero sense to reveal that Isshin was from the Zero squad when he was fighting Aizen. The Zero squad hadn't been introduced (literally... and it would have been way out of place considering the events that followed). It would have been an orange in a bushel of apples.
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