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Old 08-08-2013, 07:54 AM   #61
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Re: Naruto 642

So basically the sage created all ninjutsu so anything made of ninjutsu or even genjutsu will not work on him except what was already there before he came to being and that was nature energy.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:07 AM   #62
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Re: Naruto 642

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
It would be extremely poor writing on kishis part to have a frog sage snake sage and no slug sage in what is known as the three way deadlock. Obviously Tsunade has a sage mode. She just hasnt used it yet. As a medical nin her main focus was always support not combat but based on her heritage kage rank and sanin title im sure she has sage mode as well
I think that Tsunades creation rebirth technique may be related to sage mode. Considering that Sakura has low chakra reserves she would have to store chakra until she has sufficient amount of chakra to use sage mode. I just realised how easy it is for Sasuke to learn Sage mode as well. Since Sasuke has used cursed seals which came from Juugo he should already know the feel of natural energy. This with Juugos flesh he received after KB almost killed him should allow him to use Sage mode.

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Old 08-08-2013, 09:18 AM   #63
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Re: Naruto 642

Boy, have I missed these endless arguments last month :P
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:32 AM   #64
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Re: Naruto 642

Slug sage mode would be retarded at this point, but since Kishi doesn't really give a shit about consistent power levels, and the fact that Sakura will probably need another moment of relevance before the series ends he might just give it to her.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:47 AM   #65
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Re: Naruto 642

The Third has been annihilated, hasn't he? That's a shame.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:17 AM   #66
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Re: Naruto 642

The only necessarily plausible excuse I can think of happens to be the Law of Conservation of Energy in the Universe.

Now, to start off, chakra blatantly does not obey this law. Yeah you can make the argument that turning physical energy into chakra is merely a transformation and not a creation but what the fuck is "spiritual energy" supposed to goddamn be in terms of physics? And then you have cases where chakra is transformed into matter and then you have a case of mass-energy conversions going fuckin screwy. On some level, the molding of chakra violates the everloving shit out of that law, and that's ok because ninja magic and suspension of disbelief.

The point I'm seeing as a possible explanation (that I guarantee you isn't Kishi's line of thinking) is that natural energy is that energy in the universe that the Law applies to. As in it cannot be created, and it cannot be destroyed.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:46 AM   #67
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Re: Naruto 642

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous
One that actually makes sense. Sorry, but your analogy completely backfires considering uncut diamonds do NOT have the same properties of diamonds in a diamond saw, being the most obvious one that the latter diamons are fabricated by the compression of graphite, which allows them to be tougher than natural diamonds, thus being able to cut them.
You're talking about modern techniques. Bruting is the process whereby two diamonds are set into spinning axles turning in opposite directions, grinding against each other to shape each diamond into a round shape. I don't believe my analogy backfires, at the very least you can agree that at the top of the mohs hardness scale, only a diamond can scratch another diamond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous
And having the same properties does NOT answer the question. How is Senjutsu having the same properties as Nature Chakra a counter? After all, casting a Katon against another Katon doesn't automatically translate to a victory as it does in this case. So, I ask again, why does Senjutsu counter Natura Chakra? Neither you or KYF have answered this question properly.
Casting a Katon against another Katon would result in them colliding with each other to no effect. Each Katon would essentially be acting as a defense against the other. That's not what happened here. Naruto struck Obito's body undefended.

I believe if Obito were to use a technique to defend himself they would cancel each other out, like two Katons.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:14 PM   #68
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Re: Naruto 642

Normally kyf I try to see your pointt before I rush to judgement but that whole chacra nature defence in your -inato argument is wrong

If I intend to showcase my driving skills I at least need to have access to a car and if I intend on driving then I sure as hell better have one. So if Minato planned on combining Rasengan with nature energy he sure as hell wasnt planning on adding someome elses nature... He was going to use his own elememt that hasnt.been revealed.

Hell the.second was just a water jutsu user at first untill we see him use ftg and the fuda jutsu wjich appearantlu reached amegakure so konan could hear anout it and make her ultimate jutsu

Sorry wrong thread.. If we still have a mod can you please move this post
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:24 PM   #69
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Re: Naruto 642

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
@ KYF: You clearly are too dumb to understand where I'm getting at. It's not about me somehow picking on you, it's about you pretending to have an answer you and the rest of us clearly don't have.
LMAO, Since when did I pretend that "Because sage moves uses nature energy, the power that Juubito uses... remember that the Juubi's power is pure nature energy in the form of chakra, thus only the same power will work on him...

ALong with some other secret I would imagine..."

Is the answer... And not just some speculation... You are just so pathetic and ass hurt you follow me around another site to try and find things to criticize me for and now even try to criticize me for things I have not even done... Your fucking pathetic Numious, seriously... Get a Hobby or something because you seriously come off as hiding in my bushes at night, creepy...

Quote:
It's like someone asking "Why can't I put water on top of acid?" and you saying "Because they're chemicals!". Well, no shit, sherlock, that much everyone and their mothers actually reached. Nobody here is as brain dead as you seemingly think to forget about the Juubi's Nature Chakra status, but the manga simply lacks proper explanation of such process. So I ask again: Why does Senjutsu counter Nature Chakra?
Exactly as I speculated I would Imagine. Due to the fact sage chakra is exactly the same power Juubito is using plus some other secret which I have come up with as this
and not just basic chakra which the Juubi and it's power first created, thus should have the ability to un-create chakra, thus nullify any ninjutsu.
But, because sage ninjutsu is full of nature energy which it cannot (un-create) to nullify because it is beyond it's power and is the same it uses, it cannot and is the only kind of poewr that will work on him.


There, I filled in the secret part... Now quit crying like a baby... There was nothing wrong with my OP, you just wanted there to be so you bitch and cry. Not even the person who's question I answered had a problem with it, only you and your creepy insecure "everything is wrong with you so I must not be that bad" argument you create...

Quote:
Please answer that question with canonical facts instead of not answering at all and shifting the blame onto me.
Your an idiot, lol... You try to hide behind your book smarts yet clearly have the intellect of a tree toad that does not get enough oxygen...
claiming I am shifting the blame, Lol.. You mean the blame of you crying that there is something wrong with my answer that only you can see with you BIAS eyes...
And then using some hindsight bias to try and justify your crying about my answer...

come on... How old are you? You I really hope you are like 13 or something otherwise their is no justification for such immature idiocy, beyond you just being an immature idiot!
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:24 PM   #70
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Re: Naruto 642

Quote:
I just realised how easy it is for Sasuke to learn Sage mode as well. Since Sasuke has used cursed seals which came from Juugo he should already know the feel of natural energy. This with Juugos flesh he received after KB almost killed him should allow him to use Sage mode.
I for crying out loud that is absolutely retarded. Juugo is not a sage first of all so sasuke didn't get sage energy skills from him nor do curse seals have anything to do with sage energy. If sage energy gathering was that easy to learn there would be several people on the battlefield but nope its not that easy. As the earlier chapters described it best, you need to first learn how to become attuned to gathering and managing that chakra though usage of that oil. Then when you learn how to balance it while gathering it you are ready to gather it naturally on your own. The only problem with doing it that way is you have to either stay perfectly still to gather properly or have another animal that is familiar with sage energy merge with you to provide you nature energy which you manage yourself. That is why kabuto need the snakes with him at all times to maintain sage mode where is naruto learned to use shadow clones to gather energy then release thus giving him instant supplies of sage chakra. Sasuke knows none of these things nor does he understand the full mechanics of it. So far the only people in the series that we know of that truly have had this training is naruto, jiraiya, orochimaru, and kabuto. The rest have yet to get that training thus they can't instantly become sages. Sorry sasutards but no sage mode for your sausage boy.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:31 PM   #71
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Re: Naruto 642

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanericuser View Post
I for crying out loud that is absolutely retarded. Juugo is not a sage first of all so sasuke didn't get sage energy skills from him nor do curse seals have anything to do with sage energy. If sage energy gathering was that easy to learn there would be several people on the battlefield but nope its not that easy. As the earlier chapters described it best, you need to first learn how to become attuned to gathering and managing that chakra though usage of that oil. Then when you learn how to balance it while gathering it you are ready to gather it naturally on your own. The only problem with doing it that way is you have to either stay perfectly still to gather properly or have another animal that is familiar with sage energy merge with you to provide you nature energy which you manage yourself. That is why kabuto need the snakes with him at all times to maintain sage mode where is naruto learned to use shadow clones to gather energy then release thus giving him instant supplies of sage chakra. Sasuke knows none of these things nor does he understand the full mechanics of it. So far the only people in the series that we know of that truly have had this training is naruto, jiraiya, orochimaru, and kabuto. The rest have yet to get that training thus they can't instantly become sages. Sorry sasutards but no sage mode for your sausage boy.
Uuum, yes, Juugo is a sage!!! He uses sennin trasnformation, also know as curse seal, thus transforms into a sage... This was confirmed like 50 chapters ago, where have you been?


And the idea of sasuke gathering nature energy on his own is a bit unplausible. However, if Juugo were to combine himself with sasuke the ame way he did his flesh form before to give sasuke his CS/sage powers back. Then sasuke could use sage chakra to hit Juubito too...

Or, the more plausible IMO, is Oro becoming a dragon sage using the hashiram aclone body he has, realizing he is not enough to beat juubito, or take sasuke's body yet still want to achieve his goal.
Then Oro combines himself with sasuke into one being, with sasuke in control like before thus allowing sasuke to become a dragon sage and awaken the RG from the nature of the sage chakra that is so very close to the juubi's and hashirama's judging by appearance at least...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 08-08-2013, 12:32 PM   #72
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Re: Naruto 642

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
One that actually makes sense. Sorry, but your analogy completely backfires considering uncut diamonds do NOT have the same properties of diamonds in a diamond saw, being the most obvious one that the latter diamonds are fabricated by the compression of graphite, which allows them to be tougher than natural diamonds, thus being able to cut them.

And having the same properties does NOT answer the question. How is Senjutsu having the same properties as Nature Chakra a counter? After all, casting a Katon against another Katon doesn't automatically translate to a victory as it does in this case. So, I ask again, why does Senjutsu counter Natura Chakra? Neither you or KYF have answered this question properly.
I just want to point out Num, that your statement concerning diamonds could also be applied to this situation. Senjutsu is after all the combining of Nature chakra with the other 2 chakra types (mental and physical energy) people naturally have, to create a far more powerful chakra, that could be considered superior to "raw" nature chakra.

It could also be comparable to the nature of Haki and Logia users from One Piece. Normally logia users are completely intangible, but if their adversaries are capable of infusing their attacks with Haki they become tangible again, allowing the attacks to hit them normally.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:52 PM   #73
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Re: Naruto 642

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Uuum, yes, Juugo is a sage!!! He uses sennin trasnformation, also know as curse seal, thus transforms into a sage... This was confirmed like 50 chapters ago, where have you been?
Its a transformation but that doesn't mean he is a sage. His ability is a body manipulation ability that enhances existing features. A sage mode is enhanced in a very different way. In addition juugo as we have seen in the past relies on his own chakra instead of sage energy gathering. His curse seals he helped create optimize a person's existing abilities enhancing them to their maximum potential. Sasuke while he had the curse seal didn't have sage chakra nor did he ever gather it. His seal like all the others allowed him to use his full potential early instead of waiting for his body to naturally reach that level. Sage energy on the other hand allows outside energy from all living things to enter the body enhancing it with abilities uncommon of what it had before. While they may seem vaguely similar they are very very different.

Oh and by the way he is referring to kabuto's transformation idiot. Look in the picture and you can see kabuto in sage mode.

As far as orochimaru combining with sasuke, that won't happen either since orochimaru has just taken a zetsu body for a host nor can he simply jump from one body to the next at a whim. It takes time for him to jump from one body to another which is why he can't automatically just merge with sasuke.

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Old 08-08-2013, 01:06 PM   #74
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Re: Naruto 642

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Originally Posted by jeanericuser View Post
Its a transformation but that doesn't mean he is a sage. His ability is a body manipulation ability that enhances existing features. A sage mode is enhanced in a very different way. In addition juugo as we have seen in the past relies on his own chakra instead of sage energy gathering. His curse seals he helped create optimize a person's existing abilities enhancing them to their maximum potential. Sasuke while he had the curse seal didn't have sage chakra nor did he ever gather it. His seal like all the others allowed him to use his full potential early instead of waiting for his body to naturally reach that level. Sage energy on the other hand allows outside energy from all living things to enter the body enhancing it with abilities uncommon of what it had before. While they may seem vaguely similar they are very very different.

Oh and by the way he is referring to kabuto's transformation idiot. Look in the picture and you can see kabuto in sage mode.

As far as orochimaru combining with sasuke, that won't happen either since orochimaru has just taken a zetsu body for a host nor can he simply jump from one body to the next at a whim. It takes time for him to jump from one body to another which is why he can't automatically just merge with sasuke.
How can you transform into a sage, but not become a sage??? You have just blown my mind...

FIRST:
Juugo's KKG abilities comes from ryuchidou training in senjutsu. Juugo even confirmed himslef that the curse seal power is just another name for the original. Sennin power that allows the user to transform into a sage.

How is Juugo not a Ryuchidou snake or dragon sage?

SECOND:
sasuke when he was using curse seal power was a sage, using the SAGE chakra that Oro implanted in his body with the bite which was confirmed when he stated he poured his sage chakra into Anko's curse seal as well, thus was the power that was being drawn on the whole time making sage copies...
And When sasuke drew on that sage chakra fully, it mixed with his creating a lower level sage chakra, but sage chakra none the less which made sasuke a sage too like Juugo...

What else could increase the users chakra times 10 by just adding something to chakra other then Nature energy or already created sage chakra?

THIRD:
I never said that oro was going to pur his spirit into sasuke like Before. NO! I am talking about Oro physically merging with sasuke since it has already been confirmed that the secret of the Uchiha's body is their body easily accepts the cells of the Senju which Oro is using... to unite the young and elder son's of the sage's powers as they were...

SO oro should easily be able to do so if he chooses to, that is.
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No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 08-08-2013, 01:47 PM   #75
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Re: Naruto 642

Quote:
Juugo's KKG abilities comes from ryuchidou training in senjutsu. Juugo even confirmed himslef that the curse seal power is just another name for the original. Sennin power that allows the user to transform into a sage.

How is Juugo not a Ryuchidou snake or dragon sage?
I think I found where you are getting that info from. You are reading wikipedia stuff aren't you? Here is what kabuto thinks when you compare the curse seal to sage mode. http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/579/11
Juugo was not trained at there. His body actually has a some what natural ability to gather it but the problem is unlike real sages which transform properly into real sages, Juugo and his clan transform into abominations that can't use the real power of sage mode. They can only optimize their existing body unlike real sages which can upgrade. In essense the best way to compare this is Dragonball Z super saiyan 2. When trunks and goku first tried to go super saiyan 2 for the first time they did it poorly which resulted in them transforming into an oversized brute that was just a pumped up version of super saiyan. When gohan on the other hand transformed into super saiyan 2 he did it properly with a true transformation. Juugo may be able to gather sage energy but compared to the other he is not in any way a real sage. If sasuke were to try and use juugo's cells he would just have the same effect. You need the real training at the real place otherwise the version of sage mode you end up with is just a piss poor copy.
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