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Old 08-26-2013, 11:57 PM   #196
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Re: Naruto 643

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post

You know what? KYF and MrBig, since you're enjoying so much analyzing the others' psyche, why don't you just bugger each other with your cereal box Psychology jargon
Lol and when you accused me of cynicism (which didnt make sense may I add) it was not "cereal box" psychology but logic from the great mind of Numinous.

Numinous literally capable of falsifying countless Doctors and medical articles because he > knows < that narcissism and perfectionism are mutually exclusive. Surely no one can ever tell him his wrong. He accuses people of armchair psychology while he does the same.

The difference between me and you is that I haven't just made things up, I backed up my claims with reputable sources, you just say shit cause it seems right to you.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:46 AM   #197
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Re: Naruto 643

Oh, poor MrBig, his reading comprehension really doesn't go much far.

I'll be honest and admit my mistake on the terms part. I tend to assume that certain terms in Portuguese translate as expected in English and sometimes I get duped when I could simply avoid it. In Portuguese, perfectionism and narcissism are distinct terms for obsessive behaviour, while in English they can be used in the same term and I apologize for not informing myself enough.

Now, what you MrBig were either too lazy to read after the google search of both terms or too relunctant to read because you wanted to porve your point in desperation is that most of the links you provided made a distinction between neurotic perfectionism (perfectionism in Portuguese) and narcissistic perfectionism (narcisism in Portuguese). That's why I said YOUR psychology was out of a cereal box, because you're the one knowing nothing of the subject, not the links.

Now look at what I said previously:

Quote:
If you actually knew me instead of assuming things about me, you'd know that I write as an hobby and that many times I get stuck in writing blocks because I can't figure a way out to my doubts. You can ask anyone here, they know this as happened to me for a few times and that I delayed chapters in the fanfiction thread because of it.
And what one of your links say (because it'd be redundant to quote them all):

Quote:
Neurotic Perfectionism versus Narcissistic Perfectionism

Jacobson's distinction between shame and guilt and Kohut's distinction between neurotic and narcissistic disorders suggest that a differentiation between two forms of perfectionism would be useful.

Perfectionism in neurosis is a reaction to the demands of a harsh superego acquired as a result of learning and/or as a result of repressed hostility. As such, perfectionism is a defense against intrapsychic conflict (related to feelings of guilt around issues of morals and ideals) and an attempt to retain the love of differentiated objects in the individual's "representational world" (Sandler & Rosenblatt, 1962). The failure to live up to the superego's demands results in lowered self-esteem.

In contrast, perfectionism in the narcissistic personality is less related to morals and ideals. Rather it is an attempt by the individual to live up to a grandiose self-image in order to avoid humiliation and shame and the loss of the admiration of poorly differentiated selfobjects. The function of the perfectionism is to restore or maintain precarious self and object representations and not to defend against intrapsychic conflict (as in neurosis). This can be viewed as a "prestage of the defense" (Stolorow & Lachmann, 1980), i.e., a remnant of a developmental arrest at, or regression to, a stage where a perfectionistic view of self and selfobjects is necessary in order to develop a cohesive and stable sense of self. As such, the disturbance in self-esteem is the cause of the perfectionism and not the price.

The concrete outcome of a perfect performance in the narcissistic personality can be conceptualized as a "transitional selfobject" (Kohut, 1971) which, to paraphrase Atwood and Stolorow (1981, p. 204), gives the individual reassurance that while the sense of self may vanish on a temporary basis, it will not be permanently annihilated. The concrete nature of the performance provides a feeling of conviction and validity to the image of the grandiose self.
And, unlike what you erroneously claimed, I do not feel shame or have narcissistic rage over may failures, I feel guilt for not delivering what I intended and sulk for a while. But of course, that would require you to know me, something you never attempted to do before pointing your finger at dirty old me.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:10 AM   #198
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Re: Naruto 643

Naruto Forums....the only place to talk about everything though not Naruto lmao....We should just rename this forum to the New People's Court. Can't complain though...I actually learned something from all of this.....Go to other forums to discuss Naruto chapters..... lol just kidding...
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:26 AM   #199
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Re: Naruto 643

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Originally Posted by apacolypz View Post
Naruto Forums....the only place to talk about everything though not Naruto lmao....We should just rename this forum to the New People's Court. Can't complain though...I actually learned something from all of this.....Go to other forums to discuss Naruto chapters..... lol just kidding...
Nah, can't be the NPC... Judge Milian is hawt for her age.

In all honesty guys, Num and kael do come across as Judge Judy sometimes.

But in all seriousness, to MrBig and TitB... by your standards, you've sunken down to Num and kael's level. That's where one would say, "Pot, meet kettle." Just be real guys. Num and kael are who they are. They don't run from it. And people respect them for that.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:33 AM   #200
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Re: Naruto 643

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Oh, poor MrBig, his reading comprehension really doesn't go much far.

I'll be honest and admit my mistake on the terms part. I tend to assume that certain terms in Portuguese translate as expected in English and sometimes I get duped when I could simply avoid it. In Portuguese, perfectionism and narcissism are distinct terms for obsessive behaviour, while in English they can be used in the same term and I apologize for not informing myself enough.
Oh for god sakes. In a desperate attempt to save face, he claims he was "lost in translation".

Narcissism and perfectionism are psychological medical terms. They translate the same (have the same definition) in German, french, english, and every other language for that matter.

The same way the definition of a brain tumor in English is the same in Portuguese.

The definitions of psychological terms such as narcissism are detailed by an international board made up of thousands of psychologists around the world under the UN umbrella.

If for some reason, Portugal/Brazil don't follow the international definition and guidelines of these terms I would like to see SOURCES, explicitly confirming this. And not some more of your made up claims that you feel are "right" simply because they fit your argument.

Quote:
That's why I said YOUR psychology was out of a cereal box, because you're the one knowing nothing of the subject, not the links.
the claims I've made were backed up by my sources. The claims you made were backed by thin air. Yet im the one "that knows nothing of the subject".

try again.


Quote:
And, unlike what you erroneously claimed, I do not feel shame or have narcissistic rage over may failures, I feel guilt for not delivering what I intended and sulk for a while.
in the source you quoted:

Quote:
In contrast, perfectionism in the narcissistic personality is less related to morals and ideals. Rather it is an attempt by the individual to live up to a grandiose self-image in order to avoid humiliation and shame and the loss of the admiration of poorly differentiated selfobjects.
1. Your constant tirade of insults of people who disagree with you whether its manga or any other argument makes it evident that "morals" is not what you're trying to protect.

2. You reject any criticism and come up with weak excuses to dismiss those that criticize you. ("you don't have a seniority here!" or better yet "you're a white knight!!")

Shit you've even tried to spin this argument in claiming I was projecting problems on to you. You're desperate attempts to twist crtisim as not a fault of your character but you're opponent is a clear sign of narcissm per the definition.

3. Avoiding the humiliation and shame of being completely incorrect by the definition of psychological terms you come up with a bullshit "lost in translation" excuse to save face. (which again back fired).

Quote:
But of course, that would require you to know me, something you never attempted to do before pointing your finger at dirty old me.
I've said this multiple times, and I'll say it again. You've said nothing in any of the replies to me to unjustify anything I've accused you of.

You claim "I didn't attempt to know you". Well what do you think I've been doing this entire argument. How you've treated me, and others that weren't in agreement with you, is how I feel, a great way to understand who you are.

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Old 08-27-2013, 12:10 PM   #201
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Re: Naruto 643

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
I've said this multiple times, and I'll say it again. You've said nothing in any of the replies to me to unjustify anything I've accused you of.
Well, this the core of what is wrong with your whole argumentation: you already formed the conclusion before gathering all of the information, thus you'll ignore the information that contradicts your conclusion or, worse, twist it in order to feed your conclusion.

You seem to operate under the misguided notion that all criticism must be accepted as true, that I should simply abide to your words no matter their degree of accuracy. But criticism requires validity in order to be accepted and, well, you lacked validity from the get go, much less now, that you have become the very thing you were criticizing: someone who is constantly bickering and flaming in various walls of text with nothing of substance to say.

I'm already used to your attitude of "guilty until proven innocent", decreeing morals and expecting people to blindly follow them. After all, being an atheist in a catholic majority led to various situations where I had to defend myself from misguided or even gruesome critics, as I'm doing now, but considering you're already under the assumption that I'm a narcissist, of course you'll exaggerate my defense to ridiculous levels.

But, like I said, I'm used to moral dogs like you, so I'll reiterate a previous point: like a random priest has no relevancy to me to dictate whether I'll be destined to eternal bliss or endless torment, you have no relevancy to say what I can or can't do. I know you went like an illiterate buffoon saying that what I said about relevancy was somehow a sign of my inflated ego (which is hilariously erroneous), but things like relevancy, dignity, comradery and other traits lead to the mos vital trait that someone who wants people to follow their advice requires: respect. You simply jumping in to start a flame war earned no respect for you, so I'm not obliged to follow any of your words (specially being misguided as they are).

Earn my respect, like Mal, Miburo, ACt, kael, AOTK, platinumrug, Dagoro, Vengeance, j_H, emachina, AMA, SD and others did, and I will consider any advice you want to give me. Being obnoxiously aggressive towards me (and, even worse, being an hypocrite on both becoming the thing you criticize and pretending to be chastising both me and KYF and simply ignore the shit KYF says and only targeting me) sure as hell isn't the way to earn said respect.

Just to comment on a specific part of your post, kudos on knowing that Brazilians speak Portuguese (because I can't say the same for some forum goers here), but major failure on not knowing that many terms do slightly change between languages and even in the same language, like "hormone" [hormona (f) in Portugal, hormônio (m) in Brazil], "cancer" (cancro in Portugal, câncer in Brazil), "AIDS" (SIDA in Portugal, AIDS in Brazil) or "DNA" (ADN in Portugal, DNA in Brazil). If there isn't an international convention that constricts the terms (like SI measures or chemical symbols), terms can suffer some variation.

But, really, I'm just tired of putting up with this shit (like everyone else, like they already expressed) and, considering Shounen Jump chapters are most probably coming tomorrow, I'll do the practical thing and ignore both you and TITB, because you both have nothing of worth to say outside of constant flaming just because you want to be right for the sake of being right (not knowledge or decency) and it'd be excruciating to pass another week like this. So yeah, bye bye.

PS: You can do your little cheer of "Durr, he gave up, I won, derp!" like you're dying to do. Can't say I'm not merciful.




So, who wants to discuss Naruto like we were doing before?
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Last edited by Numinous; 08-27-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:20 PM   #202
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Re: Naruto 643

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
So, who wants to discuss Naruto like we were doing before?
Seriously, do you think Kishi wraps this up before the end of the year, or does he draw it out even longer?
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:25 PM   #203
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Re: Naruto 643

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
And for those wondering why the hell things are the way they are:

KYF is pretty much stating that his ignorance about Einsteinian physics > the knowledge of various scientists in astrophysics because they can't prove it, despite its effects be well known and documented and being predicted since 1916. Sorry, how can anyone not feel outraged by this blatant insult to our collective intelligence? You either need a stomach of iron or being morally dead to simply ignore such a thing.
It is still just a theory for gravity to PUSH, not empirical fact you poor deluded hehaw. And trying to support a naruto theory with a physics theory is just ridiculous... ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ON...

all you are doing is tap dancing around the fact you cannot prove the theory while trying to paint me as some arrogant fool who thinks he knows everything about physics, while not knowing anything at all.

I know enough to realize that if a theory cannot be proven, it should not be taken as FACT, JUST A THEORY... and no matter how much the math adds up and predicts gravity able to push in the right conditions. Like every other theory, it can still turn out to be wrong like any other theory.
By your logic, we should take all theories as fact, whether their is evidence to prove them or not...

That is why your arguments are so shitty! You try to prove certainty where there is NONE! How many time do I have to say this to you before it sinks IN..

Quote:
NO!

And this all started when people said that both Shinra Tensei and Banshou Tennin were gravity and KYF stupidly said it was electromagnetism just because the manga used the simile for readers to understand it better.
Straw man again. I said it was Kishi's Fucked up Electromagnetism... you know, the kind where gold is just so easy much easier to attract using magnetism then the other elements to the point ONLY gold is taken out of the ground... Yea, that magnetism...

Quote:
(I won't even bother with the rest of the post, it's just KYF being KYF.
)

Yea, it is me proving you wrong as usual, I agree!!! You had no confirmation it was just Obito, you never even thought it was obito just using HINDSIGHT BIAS again to try and act like you predicted something you obviously did not, ect.

Quote:
You know what? KYF and MrBig, since you're enjoying so much analyzing the others' psyche, why don't you just bugger each other with your cereal box Psychology jargon and leave the rest of us enjoy the forum as it is? If I want some psychoanalysis, I'll talk to someone who actually presents a degree on it as I've done in the past instead of a couple of obnoxious pansies, thank you very much.
TRANSLATION: I am going to cry when someone points out my short coming which I should not have being Me, oh so perfect, thus ask for a friends opinion instead because they will not be honest due to BIAS.

Ending with a giant, BIG, B-O-O-H-O-O!
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:30 PM   #204
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Re: Naruto 643

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
So, who wants to discuss Naruto like we were doing before I started crying like a immature baby about someone calling me on my bullshit?
[/SIZE]
fixed it for ya buddy... But that is what friends are for...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:51 PM   #205
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Re: Naruto 643

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
Seriously, do you think Kishi wraps this up before the end of the year, or does he draw it out even longer?
I wouldn't be surprised if he ended this war around October just for that extra cheesy flavor of coinciding with Naruto's birthday.

Oh, and KYF: stop being so ignorant of science and start using a single post instead of spamming like a 'tard.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:57 PM   #206
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Re: Naruto 643

And Here I thought....
Reading the Manga was fun......
Reading the Posts here is more funn.....
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:10 PM   #207
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Re: Naruto 643

Sometimes I think you don't believe in anything you actually write. What was a hilarious over-reaction at the beginning has turned something more sad and pathetic every reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Well, this the core of what is wrong with your whole argumentation: you already formed the conclusion before gathering all of the information, thus you'll ignore the information that contradicts your conclusion or, worse, twist it in order to feed your conclusion.
I haven't accused you of anything until you started replying to me. My conclusion of who you are came from this conversation. Again if this is not who you ACTUALLY are, you sure do a swell job acting the part.

Quote:
You seem to operate under the misguided notion that all criticism must be accepted as true, that I should simply abide to your words no matter their degree of accuracy. But criticism requires validity in order to be accepted and, well, you lacked validity from the get go
You write a lot but don't get much across. Instead of pointlessly typing down blocks of texts get to the point. How exactly are my points invalid? (lets try to figure it out within the rest of your post together!)

Quote:
much less now, that you have become the very thing you were criticizing: someone who is constantly bickering and flaming in various walls of text with nothing of substance to say.
My points are invalid because i've fallen prey to the same drivel you have started with KYF? Yes this conversation has gotten a lot less civil with time but If you look at each of my reply I've never directly insulted you or attack you with no base. I won't call you a retard/moron/stupid or any variation of thereof.

Yes, I've accused you of being narcissist but that was securely based once again on WHAT you've said in your reply.

my criticisms still stands.

Quote:
I'm already used to your attitude of "guilty until proven innocent"
Again I didn't accuse you of anything at first, it's only with time and after your replies that I criticized you more and more based on things you've said to me.

Quote:
decreeing morals and expecting people to blindly follow them.
Asking you to win arguments based on their own merit instead of feverishly just insulting people to get points across is some kind of upper moral standard to you?

Quote:
After all, being an atheist in a catholic majority led to various situations where I had to defend myself from misguided or even gruesome critics, as I'm doing now, but considering you're already under the assumption that I'm a narcissist, of course you'll exaggerate my defense to ridiculous levels.
More irrelevant blocks of texts. Implying atheist persecution in heavily religious environments is anything like what's happening here. I made the point that civil discourse leads to intelligent conversation. Avoiding continuous flame wars of biblical proportions.

So again, what the hell are you on about. What are you trying to prove with this? Where is the argument AGAINST the statements i've made?

Quote:

But, like I said, I'm used to moral dogs like you, so I'll reiterate a previous point: like a random priest has no relevancy to me to dictate whether I'll be destined to eternal bliss or endless torment, you have no relevancy to say what I can or can't do.
Terrible analogy. Yes I can't tell you what to do, but I CAN criticize you for what you choose to do.

Quote:
I know you went like an illiterate buffoon saying that what I said about relevancy was somehow a sign of my inflated ego (which is hilariously erroneous), but things like relevancy, dignity, comradery and other traits lead to the mos vital trait that someone who wants people to follow their advice requires: respect. You simply jumping in to start a flame war earned no respect for you, so I'm not obliged to follow any of your words (specially being misguided as they are).
1. It doesn't matter If I have your respect or not is irrelevant to my argumentative points.
you either disprove them or accept them as truth.

2. another block of text saying nothing that furthers the discussion. If you don't want to change, no one can force you to. This is a given, why even point that out and how does this disprove anything I've accused you with?

3. I'm starting to think you don't actually know how to properly layout your statements and argumentative points. Seems like you type whatever.

Quote:
Earn my respect, like Mal, Miburo, ACt, kael, AOTK, platinumrug, Dagoro, Vengeance, j_H, emachina, AMA, SD and others did, and I will consider any advice you want to give me.
I don't NEED your respect.
Yes, Im glad you have friends that you like.
If you don't accept my advice/criticism, that is up to you.
I'm still waiting for you to disprove anything I've said.

Quote:
Being obnoxiously aggressive towards me
I can't believe you don't see the irony in this.
obnoxiously aggressive?????? does that remind you of anyone? You and KYF maybe?

Insulting people continuously when in disagreement about manga theories isn't obnoxiously aggressive?

Quote:
(and, even worse, being an hypocrite on both becoming the thing you criticize and pretending to be chastising both me and KYF and simply ignore the shit KYF says and only targeting me) sure as hell isn't the way to earn said respect.
again with the "LOOK AT WHAT HE'S DOING!"

So i'll repeat just the same: I called you both out in my original post.

Quote:
Just to comment on a specific part of your post, kudos on knowing that Brazilians speak Portuguese (because I can't say the same for some forum goers here), but major failure on not knowing that many terms do slightly change between languages and even in the same language, like "hormone" [hormona (f) in Portugal, hormônio (m) in Brazil], "cancer" (cancro in Portugal, câncer in Brazil), "AIDS" (SIDA in Portugal, AIDS in Brazil) or "DNA" (ADN in Portugal, DNA in Brazil). If there isn't an international convention that constricts the terms (like SI measures or chemical symbols), terms can suffer some variation.
Are you seriously arguing on spelling conventions?
WATER in English is spelled "EAU" in french they both however have the SAME scientific definition.

The same way narcissism may be pronounced differently and/or spelt differently depending on the language and local variations of said language.

The scientific MEDICAL definition developed by the international board of psychology remains the same. Same with AIDS, DNA or whatever else.

Quote:
yeah, bye bye.
bye.

Quote:
PS: You can do your little cheer of "Durr, he gave up, I won, derp!" like you're dying to do. Can't say I'm not merciful.
^what was the point of this?
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:09 PM   #208
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Re: Naruto 643

Here is a curious thought that has been rattling around in my brain lately. The seal on naruto is designed to suppress kyubi chakra. Is that same chakra itself physically used up as a result or is it merely stored instead thus increasing the kyubi's overall chakra supply? I have been lately wondering if naruto might actually be even stronger in sage mode without the kyubi instead of with it. Without the kyubi his full chakra could be mixed directly with sage chakra thus increasing his chakra resources making him even more powerful than he was before. This is theory at this point but I have been debating the prospect for a while now.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:58 PM   #209
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Re: Naruto 643

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Originally Posted by jeanericuser View Post
Here is a curious thought that has been rattling around in my brain lately. The seal on naruto is designed to suppress kyubi chakra. Is that same chakra itself physically used up as a result or is it merely stored instead thus increasing the kyubi's overall chakra supply? I have been lately wondering if naruto might actually be even stronger in sage mode without the kyubi instead of with it. Without the kyubi his full chakra could be mixed directly with sage chakra thus increasing his chakra resources making him even more powerful than he was before. This is theory at this point but I have been debating the prospect for a while now.
There's one problem with your prognosis... how long has it been since Kishi has been thorough with anything in this storyline?
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:49 PM   #210
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Re: Naruto 643

So is Kishi's explanation for the senjutsu beating the ten tails' natural energy just going to be Naruto's "I dunno"? That's some bullshit right there.
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