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Old 09-27-2013, 11:13 AM   #76
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Re: Naruto 648

Are we still on the "all might and powerful" Senju. Let's be honest, outside of Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara, and Izuna, the only two ninja to get remotely close to those power thresholds have been Sasuke and Naruto. There have been other more viable and capable shinobi (i.e. Itachi, Kakashi, Orochimaru, Jiraiya, and Minato), but for "pure" power, none will rival these six.

So as far as the Uchiha and Senju are concerned, as wholes, I would put them at par with the Nara clan and Hyuugas. Because lets be honest, for whatever reason, Kishi didn't want to delve into the Uzumakis, and based on what knowledge we do have of them, as a clan, they apparently seemed to be the most formidable, so much, that they were annihilated. Did they have sole people who were of the power level of Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara, or Izuna? More than likely not.

@Num

I gotta side with KYF on one isntance. I don't remember where Kishi stated that Nagato was both Senju and Uzumaki, just Uzumaki. I could be wrong, but evidence will prove one way or the other.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:24 AM   #77
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Re: Naruto 648

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
Are we still on the "all might and powerful" Senju. Let's be honest, outside of Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara, and Izuna, the only two ninja to get remotely close to those power thresholds have been Sasuke and Naruto. There have been other more viable and capable shinobi (i.e. Itachi, Kakashi, Orochimaru, Jiraiya, and Minato), but for "pure" power, none will rival these six.

So as far as the Uchiha and Senju are concerned, as wholes, I would put them at par with the Nara clan and Hyuugas. Because lets be honest, for whatever reason, Kishi didn't want to delve into the Uzumakis, and based on what knowledge we do have of them, as a clan, they apparently seemed to be the most formidable, so much, that they were annihilated. Did they have sole people who were of the power level of Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara, or Izuna? More than likely not.

@Num

I gotta side with KYF on one isntance. I don't remember where Kishi stated that Nagato was both Senju and Uzumaki, just Uzumaki. I could be wrong, but evidence will prove one way or the other.
Num is ignoring the FACT that kihsi made Uzumaki=senju through an ass pull...
Uzumaki's were just supposed to be related to the senju... However, it turned out that they were related through the younger son of the sage, thus both being the same bloodline (senju) were just the same clan/bloodline/power in two different clans...
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:47 AM   #78
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
He did not say that, where is that said? Kishi made nagato an Uzumaki who is a close blood relative, which happens to be the youger son of the sage, a.k.a the SENJU bloodline...
How many times do dimwits like you need the same explanation on basic genealogy? The Younger Son's lineage isn't only Senju, is Senju AND Uzumaki, and them being blood relatives means that they have a common ancestor, not that they're the same clan.

Quote:
Showing that Uzumaki through nagato are actually senju... Just using a dofferent name, but is the same bloodline...Which is why they have the same abilities too..
So you don't have the same characteristics from your ape ancestors that orangutans, gorillas and chimpanzees also share? The very fact they have a common ancestor that was stated by the manga to have such abilities explains their similarity while being separate clans.

Also, just because Nagato happens to be Uzumaki and Senju doesn't mean all Uzumaki are Senju, that would be a blatant fallacy of composition.

Quote:
And you forgot that the Elder son of the sage=Uchiha and younger son of the sage=senju...
No, they were Ootsutsuki because Hagoromo was Ootsutsuki and there's absolutely no evidence they defected from their father's clan. The nature of the descendants does not alter the nature of the ancestors.

Quote:
Not Uzumaki SO the parallel I presented is the same thing while you ignore the FACT that naruto has to be a SENJU to actually make the parallel accurate...
Except not, you're confusing the cause with the effect. The strife between brothers began with the Elder and Younger Sons, meaning the parallel spawns from that. The Senju and Uchiha simply continued the strife, but the simple fact that the Uzumaki, also descended from the Younger Son, did not participate in it already makes the parallel at clan level inaccurate. So, if you're arguing for parallel accuracy, stick with the Elder and Younger son, which Naruto already fits since he's an Uzumaki.

Quote:
Which Kishi has doen through the ass pull of making Uzumaki=Senju... Just using a different name...
And your bright mind didn't even bother with Japanese nomenclature or the fact that Kishimoto named the clans differently because they're different clans.

Quote:
Because your comparing real world lineage of HORSES and DONKEYS, not even people LOL,
Oh, sorry for thinking things like lineage and reproduction were unique to humans. What was I thinking, it's common knowledge that donkeys and horses simply sprout from the earth already grown up!

The reason why I used them was to make it excruciatingly clear how absurd your reasoning is.

Quote:
compared to magical ninja powers gained from a tree that was passed on to the sage, tot he younger son, to create two separate clans with the same bloodline in each... How can you not realize the irrelevance of such a source of info as horses and donkeys...
Again, sorry, but I thought that, even with all the magical juju, humans in the Narutoverse still used their penises and vaginas to reproduce, thus phenomenon that affect real animal reproduction were also valid for Narutoverse humans. I mean, it's not like Kishimoto depicted a pregnant woman and a baby, am I right?

Quote:
Yea, keep telling yourself that, but using a source of info like HORSE and DONKEYS Lineage to try and explain magical ninja powers
First, I am NOT trying to explain magical ninja powers, you moron, I'm explaining clan ancestry, which donkeys and horses are perfectly apt.

Second, an analogy isn't a source of info, it's a comparison for clarity's sake. So nope, your idiotic claim of false attribution is simply nonsensical in this case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
@Num

I gotta side with KYF on one isntance. I don't remember where Kishi stated that Nagato was both Senju and Uzumaki, just Uzumaki. I could be wrong, but evidence will prove one way or the other.
Zetsu stated that Nagato was of Senju lineage at the end of Obito's flashback. Considering Kishimoto claimed Nagato for both clans, it's only natural that he does descend from both.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:10 PM   #79
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Doesn't he need to make living sacrifices or some shit for edo to work?

Seems like to me Tobirama is not the type of dude to do that.
He could sacrifice enemy fodder for that. Villages are always sending ninjas at each other for various intelligence gathering or scouting missions. Capture a few of those bastards alive and lock them up for a "rainy day".

Quote:
Originally Posted by apacolypz View Post
He does need a living sacrifice which honestly goes against Tobirama's character. Why did he even invent such a jutsu knowing it would cause so much misery. I mean using it against your foe is one thing but you are breaking morals-principles that a respected Kage would not.
I wouldn't be too sure of that. We are talking about ninjas here. Sacrificing people isn't that big of a taboo. They brutally murder each other all the time, and actually get praise for it. Minato became a legend for single handedly fighting 1000 ninjas during the last war. Danzo would straight up walk across the corpse of his own subordinates if he felt like it. Besides, Tobirama is already a verified douche. Nothing new there. He put the uchiha on a lease, and didn't even seem phased when he was told they got massacred.

Quote:
Askmeanything
Also I could never see Tobirama raising his dead brother to have him powerhouse on some fools. He has way too much respect for Hashirama though I understand your point.
I'd say it depends on the situation. If it were for selfish reasons then definitely not. Though if the Leaf village were in some serious trouble, I could see him doing it. Hashirama seems like the kind of guy that wouldn't mind. You certainly don't hear him complaining about it right now right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post

Tobirama has never shown the ability to actually use edo tensai... Only confirmed to create it... And even if he could use edo tensai, from what we have heard about it, It would be such weak versions that they would be like genin level, thus not offer much help against people that are not at least the same strength as tobirama, thus average kage level..
If you have never seen him use it, how the fuck do you know how strong it is? I'm gonna pull a line from your playbook now and say "Oh you think your kishi huh?".

Quote:
And I am sorry, but tobirama with 100 genin level edo's+himself who could not even defeat 20 fodder shinobi to live... Much less escape using the FTG...>EMS Madara still...
Again, you don't know how strong those 20 were. All the manga says is that they were an elite team, therefore NOT fodder.

As for the rest of that post, keep fapping to minato and the uchihas.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:42 PM   #80
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Re: Naruto 648

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
How many times do dimwits like you need the same explanation on basic genealogy? The Younger Son's lineage isn't only Senju, is Senju AND Uzumaki, and them being blood relatives means that they have a common ancestor, not that they're the same clan.
Yea yea, all your genealogy<<<the manga canon that states that Uzumaki=senju through an ass pull... You still do not get it...

Quote:
So you don't have the same characteristics from your ape ancestors that orangutans, gorillas and chimpanzees also share? The very fact they have a common ancestor that was stated by the manga to have such abilities explains their similarity while being separate clans.
It was the younger son of the sage, A.k.A. The senju bloodline... Thus, by Uzumaki being part of that bloodline and even confirmed by the manga here:


Uzumaki are actually Senju by bloodline, they are just a clan that branched off from the main clan of the senju for some reason, but still have the exact same abilities proving they are just like the senju... which was explained by the confimration that they actually are SENJU...

Quote:
Also, just because Nagato happens to be Uzumaki and Senju doesn't mean all Uzumaki are Senju, that would be a blatant fallacy of composition.
Boy I saw this coming a Mile away... Which is why I used the other examples of...
1). the parallel of naruto and sasuke to Hashirama SENJU and Uchiha Madara, part of the SENJU vs uchiha that has gone on since the younger and elder son of the sage themselves..
And unless Uzumaki=Senju, making naruto a senju, the parallel would not be accurate at all...
2).the FACT that the manga confirms that the Uzumaki and senju are related through the Younger son/Senju bloodline... Thus They ALL (uzumaki) have to be Senju belonging to the bloodline...
3). Senju and Uzumaki both have the exact same abilites/power..
: Vitality/life force is what the Uzumaki and senju are known for...
: As well as Large physical energy for large chakra pool is something senju as well as naruto is known for...
: healing/restoring is something Karin and hashirama are known for...
: sensing is something karin and tobirama are known for as well...
Showing that both the SENJU and Uzumaki have the exact same abilities further confirming that both are one in the same wiht just two separate names...
4). it is confirmed that Uchiha+Senju is how you awaken and use the RG... Thus, Nagato who could use the RG would need to be SENJU to even use the eyes... Which he could...

Thus there are 5 examples altogether of Uzumaki being Senju as well as 2 confirmations of Uzumaki being senju so this cannot be a fallacy of composition without arguing a that something true for ONLY a PART is also true for it's whole...
Try again Sven...

Quote:
No, they were Ootsutsuki because Hagoromo was Ootsutsuki and there's absolutely no evidence they defected from their father's clan. The nature of the descendants does not alter the nature of the ancestors.
LAMO, now your going to argue they are not uzumaki/senju or uchiha... WTF, keep deluding yourself...
Apparently you forgot that the sage split his power between his two sons along with his bloodline, thus You have two ootsutsuki's plus Yin and yang power of the Juubi in the mix to create two completely different clans...

Ootsutsuki bloodline+YIN half of the Juubi's power=Uchiha...
Ootsutsuki bloodline+Yang half of the Juubi=Senju which the Uzumaki belong too as a branch clan to the Senju...

Quote:
Except not, you're confusing the cause with the effect. The strife between brothers began with the Elder and Younger Sons, meaning the parallel spawns from that. The Senju and Uchiha simply continued the strife, but the simple fact that the Uzumaki, also descended from the Younger Son, did not participate in it already makes the parallel at clan level inaccurate. So, if you're arguing for parallel accuracy, stick with the Elder and Younger son, which Naruto already fits since he's an Uzumaki.
Again the delusions fly high!!! The Elder son of the sage is confirmed as the UCHIHA CLAN while the Younger son of the sage is confirmed as the SENJU CLAN which is what the Uzumaki belong to as well as from the SENJU bloodline with the exact same power as the SENJU clan...

Apparently you are willing to delude yourself that the elder and younger son of the sage were not the Original Uchiha and senju form whcih the clans and bloodline came from... just to try and win such a trivial argument that kishi has already confirmed proving you wrong...

Quote:
Oh, sorry for thinking things like lineage and reproduction were unique to humans. What was I thinking, it's common knowledge that donkeys and horses simply sprout from the earth already grown up!

The reason why I used them was to make it excruciatingly clear how absurd your reasoning is.
Yes, appeal to sarcasm now because you have nothing else while ignoring that kishi has already confirmed that Uzumaki=Senju coming from the exact same bloodline, having the exact same power/abilities, just having a different clan name...
And you still have not shown me where it was said that nagato is an Uzumaki and senju... Where is this said Numious??


Quote:
Again, sorry, but I thought that, even with all the magical juju, humans in the Narutoverse still used their penises and vaginas to reproduce, thus phenomenon that affect real animal reproduction were also valid for Narutoverse humans. I mean, it's not like Kishimoto depicted a pregnant woman and a baby, am I right?
You still used donkeys and horses, not even people... And to try and explain how the certain clan magical ninja with god tree power are not what kishi already confirmed them to be...

Quote:
First, I am NOT trying to explain magical ninja powers, you moron, I'm explaining clan ancestry, which donkeys and horses are perfectly apt.
Second, an analogy isn't a source of info, it's a comparison for clarity's sake. So nope, your idiotic claim of false attribution is simply nonsensical in this case.
Yea yea, keep telling yourself that... using an irrelevant source of info like the genealogy of horses and donkeys (which you did use) to try and explain what kishi has already confirmed, is wrong...

Quote:
Zetsu stated that Nagato was of Senju lineage at the end of Obito's flashback. Considering Kishimoto claimed Nagato for both clans, it's only natural that he does descend from both.
Wrong, kishi confirmed that nagato as an Uzumaki belongs to the SENJU BLOODLINE...
And that is not a claim of both clans, merely confirming that Uzumaki=senju through the relation to the younger son of the sage...

Where is it SAID that nagato belongs to BOTH clan of the Uzumaki and Senju... All you did was show evidence to support my argument... Good god the mental gymnastics are legendary...

Kishi confirms Uzumaki=SENJU through both coming form the younger son of the sage/SENJU bloodline and you still argue it...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

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Old 09-27-2013, 12:49 PM   #81
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Re: Naruto 648

@Num

Thanks for clearing that up. Had completely forgotten that little tidbit. Although next time, it would be nice that when you're linking to a website, to avoid mangareader and mangahere. As far as I know, those are the only two that are... censored in the U.S.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:51 PM   #82
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Re: Naruto 648

Quote:
Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
If you have never seen him use it, how the fuck do you know how strong it is? I'm gonna pull a line from your playbook now and say "Oh you think your kishi huh?".
Have you forgotten that tobirama confirmed that Oro perfected ET, making the efficiency so high they are brought back at pretty much full strength... And Tobirama merely created the jutsu, but could not perfect it, thus IF he could bring back dead shinobi as edo's they would be very weak... Nothing like their original selves...

Quote:
Again, you don't know how strong those 20 were. All the manga says is that they were an elite team, therefore NOT fodder.
Lol, Anbu black ops are elite too yet they are fodder! And the FACT that kishi did not even NAME a single one of them, just the squad which was named after the then current criminal KINAKU... Not Mention of even a certain shinobi within the 20 of known high level... Nothing...

So yes, they were freaking fodder and you know it... Showing tobirama is really not that great with such a pathetic feats as dying against 20 fodders...

Quote:
As for the rest of that post, keep fapping to minato and the uchihas.
LMAO, funny you ignored the non Uchiha's and Minato in that like the raikage, deva realm and even hiruzen... No... You keep FAPPING over the most OVERRATED character to date to the point you would argue he could fight against the 6 paths of pain while trying avoiding the obvious conclusion that tobirama is nothing special bu his abilities and feats thus try to rationalize my post as Fapping to characters that were only HALF the argument...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 09-27-2013, 03:06 PM   #83
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Re: Naruto 648

Yeah I would still put tobirama over minato or itachi.
Sasuske might be stronger, but tobirama battle experience will make up for any difference and then some.

Last edited by MrBIG; 09-27-2013 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:46 PM   #84
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
He did not say that, where is that said? Kishi made nagato an Uzumaki who is a close blood relative, which happens to be the youger son of the sage, a.k.a the SENJU bloodline... And this was confirmed by kishi stating that nagto belonged to the SENJU/younger son of the sage's bloodline...

Showing that Uzumaki through nagato are actually senju... Just using a dofferent name, but is the same bloodline...Which is why they have the same abilities too..



And you forgot that the Elder son of the sage=Uchiha and younger son of the sage=senju... Not Uzumaki SO the parallel I presented is the same thing while you ignore the FACT that naruto has to be a SENJU to actually make the parallel accurate...
Which Kishi has doen through the ass pull of making Uzumaki=Senju... Just using a different name...



Because your comparing real world lineage of HORSES and DONKEYS, not even people LOL, compared to magical ninja powers gained from a tree that was passed on to the sage, tot he younger son, to create two separate clans with the same bloodline in each... How can you not realize the irrelevance of such a source of info as horses and donkeys...


Yea, keep telling yourself that, but using a source of info like HORSE and DONKEYS Lineage to try and explain magical ninja powers gained form a tree passed down from the sage to his younger son, who passed on the power to a single clan of the senju who became two separate clans for some reason, but are both the same bloodline...

Yea, I repeated myself, maybe then it will compute with yout although I doubt...



Tobirama has never shown the ability to actually use edo tensai... Only confirmed to create it... And even if he could use edo tensai, from what we have heard about it, It would be such weak versions that they would be like genin level, thus not offer much help against people that are not at least the same strength as tobirama, thus average kage level...

And I am sorry, but tobirama with 100 genin level edo's+himself who could not even defeat 20 fodder shinobi to live... Much less escape using the FTG...>EMS Madara still...
Madara genjutsu rapes tobirama, forcing him to undo the ET and then kills him... easy as pie...

And the many people who can beat tobirama even if he can use his very weak versions of ET, but likely not more then one or two edo's... Besides EMS Madara...
: Minato uses his superior physical speed/reflexes plus many levels of hirashin to get to the edo, touch the eod's, break the contract so they no longer obey tobirama then Blitz tobirama in the confusion with FTG level 2...
: Itachi uses amaterasu to immobilize the edo's becuase as we saw with nagato, the burning of the blakc flames was doing more damage then the instant healing oculd keep up with thus eventually, the flames would render the edo's uses without the use of Shinrei tensai to blow the flames off of them...
At that point, itachi uses a simple genjutsu rape coupled with taijutsu move and the fight is over... Ain't no low level water jutsu, low level ET or low level hirashin going to stop him..
Then after tobirama is dead, itachi uses totsuka sword to seal away the edos...
: EMS sasuke could do just as well... Use amaterasu to immobilize the weak edos then use amaterasu on tobirama who is way to slow to avoid it... Although sasuke will need some assistance ot get rid of the edo's for good... Likely Juugo will absorb them like he can do living people...
: 4th raikage would beat tobirama faster then anyone lol... Would go V1 and blitz right past the edo's to strike tobirama down because he like his brother is no faster then madara physically who could not even compete against V1 raikage... and Madara had the SG to track and react to his movements too..
Although the raikage will need assistance sealing away the edos...
Deva real on his own could easily beat tobirama... Use a single bansho tenin to draw tobirama into a chakra rod to the chest, killing him... Then just blow then just have Human realm come soul seal the edo's to get rod of them...
: even Hiruzen could beat tobirama by using the shiki fuujin coupled with kage bushin to defeat the edos and tobirama in a single move... although it would kill hiruzen, too, just more evidence that tobirama is no greater then hiruzen... who is about average kage level..

CONCLUSION:
Tobirama is just not that strong, even as an edo he is just not that special... And I know next to a one armed Minato who can do nothing, but think about doing things to his former student yet does not have the heart to kill him... As well as sasuke not really trying very hard...
Edo tobirama seems strong, but he just is not that strong...

Living...
: Almost died against Kin and gin with the 2nd raikage's help fighting...
: Managed to land a mortal blow on Izuna, but he was using no MS jutsu at all... Looked like an ambush...
: Then died against 20 fodder cloud shinobi lol...
: Has zabuza level water jutsu, no actual use fo ET, but talk of being able to use a very weak version compared to oro and kabuto's as well as hirashin version 1, but only with direct physical contact, not Kunai tags for movements and can only teleport one thing at a time too...

Edo...
: Got one shoted by v1 imperfect Juubito... The level of attack Minato and his clone brushed off while busy focusing on the new jutsu...
: Was attacking v2 Juubito with hiraishin because Juubito was just standing their letting him, and still could not land an attack without the assistance of a one armed minato...

How is tobirama even considered more then average kage level like tsunade, hiruzen, ect... With such dismal feats and abilities?
After reading this you're effectively stupid. Raichu sat behind Minato in speed, but he can outspeed the Dude that Minato copied in the first place?

Itachi defeating any Senju besides Tsundae? Really? And you believe this shiit?

Tobirama off'd Izuna but would have a problem with Itachi, or Sasuke? 1 on 1? I'm a Sasuke Fan and I know he'd get his ass handed to him. Without Juugo, Karin, or even Suigetsu at times vs. something like Hachibi, Sasuke perished twice... basically stfu. It ain't like I'm happy about the shit but its fakt, stop trying to elevate Sasuke (at least right now, prior to this battle), or even Itachi is a fucking insult of common sense. Remember though Izuna didn't have Totsuka Swords, or Yata Mirrors he had EMS, a level above Itachi, so stop fanning that Dude as if he matters in this level and he doesn't... wanna know why, BECAUSE HIS BRO SASUKE SURPASSED HIM ALREADY WITH EXCEPTION OF A COUPLE OF TOOLS/WEAPONS, AND SASUKE WOULD CURRENTLY DIE TO TOBIRAMA. THIS DUDE AND MINATO HAS TOUCH AND PUT DAMAGE ON OBITO THE SAGE, NOBODY ELSE BESIDES NARUTO CAN SAY THE SAME. STOP FANNING BEFORE ITS TIME.

Also stop overrating the Uzimaki's off of bullshit, spit out they're feats please, I beg you. I'll help you Mito contained Kyuubs, and Kushina, and then comes Naruto and nothing else to talk about. Stop all the hype bullshit, give me some names of these Uber Uzimaki's please? I'm just waiting, let me know. Where are all of these Uber Uzimaki's... awaiting.... (an easy answer... author propaganda that you bought into, to make characters moar relevant).
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:03 PM   #85
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Re: Naruto 648

Small correction, neo. Izuna didn't have EMS, he only had the mangekyo. Madara had the EMS from taking Izuna's eyes.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:19 PM   #86
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Small correction, neo. Izuna didn't have EMS, he only had the mangekyo. Madara had the EMS from taking Izuna's eyes.
TY, but with Tobirama knowing seemingly moar about Uchiha's than Sasuke, still, Itachi ain't beating him. People are just overrating Itachi, first off he took no joy in offing anyone and went out of his way to avoid it. Additionally his 'Bad Guy' status has been outted since Obito stated to Danzou, I haven't seen you since the Uchiha Massacre, both were there, I hear a 3 man team taking out the Uchiha's not just Itachi, stop that farce. Could he have, sure, did he, no. And no that ain't directed at you Kael, but those whom feel like riding Itachi toward a Senju, stop it Until someone shows feats or abilities equal to Senju, or Madara, I'm not hearing the 'write up' of Kishi, whom ever wants can ride that shit to hell, it doesn't fit whats factually in front of us on panel. Damn any MS Uchiha vs. Tobirama, or Harashirma... they can barely control the 9Tail Bijuu whom is a pet to them, stop it Skip!
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:20 PM   #87
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Re: Naruto 648

There's no real proof of the uzumaki clan being of the same blood as the senju. But I think it's quite clear that kishi is going to find a way to link naruto directly to the senju clan. All the foreshadowing and comparative bullshit that has been going on really seems to lead that away. I wouldn't be surprised if one of narutos mothers parents were senju or some shit.


The parallel between Sasuske / madara and narutos / hashimara is too great to dismiss the idea that naruto is at least part senju.

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Old 09-27-2013, 11:20 PM   #88
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Re: Naruto 648

Kushina stated in her history lesson that the Senju and Uzumaki are distantly related (not close blood as KYF is trying to say). That gives Naruto his link to the Younger son and his link to that aspect of this whole conflict between "Senju and uchiha". Going by this, its obvious that not all Uzumaki have Senju lineage. Nagato was mentioned as having it in a throwaway statement to show how he was able to control the Gedo Mazo, while Obito couldn't.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:34 AM   #89
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Re: Naruto 648

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Yea yea, all your genealogy<<<the manga canon that states that Uzumaki=senju through an ass pull... You still do not get it...
Sorry, but your poor reading comprehension isn't manga canon. Manga canon never stated that Uzumaki=Senju.

Quote:
It was the younger son of the sage, A.k.A. The senju bloodline... Thus, by Uzumaki being part of that bloodline and even confirmed by the manga here:

[Cut silly MS paint job]
What part of Senju and Uzumaki being relatives and Nagato being Senju does not mean Uzumaki=Senju didn't get into your thick skull?

Oh and nice job making a MS Paint job on a panel that I linked in my previous post, thus knowing that it exists. What a moron.

Quote:
Uzumaki are actually Senju by bloodline, they are just a clan that branched off from the main clan of the senju for some reason, but still have the exact same abilities proving they are just like the senju... which was explained by the confimration that they actually are SENJU...
This whole quote reeks of confirmation bias. I've already said that the common ancestry with the Younger Son, who was stated to have the abilities of both Senju and Uzumaki, explains their similarity and even gave the example of apes but nope, you didn't give a single fuck to a much more coherent answer and simply went with your conclusion and tried to twist the data in order to fit in.

Please provide the panels where it is stated that Uzumaki branched off the Senju and that Uzumaki=Senju. Because all I know is that Kishi stated that Senju and Uzumaki are distant relatives and that Nagato was claimed to be Uzumaki and Senju.


Quote:
Boy I saw this coming a Mile away... Which is why I used the other examples of...
1). the parallel of naruto and sasuke to Hashirama SENJU and Uchiha Madara, part of the SENJU vs uchiha that has gone on since the younger and elder son of the sage themselves..
And unless Uzumaki=Senju, making naruto a senju, the parallel would not be accurate at all...
So you justify your conclusion with your conclusion? Well, ain't that a pretty circular reasoning you got there!
Quote:
2).the FACT that the manga confirms that the Uzumaki and senju are related through the Younger son/Senju bloodline... Thus They ALL (uzumaki) have to be Senju belonging to the bloodline...
So you're a chimpanzee because humans are related to them through a common ancestor? I dislike the fact that I have to make analogies in the interspecies level, but you don't seem to acknowledge how flawed your reasoning is if I don't make it absurdly clear.

Quote:
3). Senju and Uzumaki both have the exact same abilites/power..
: Vitality/life force is what the Uzumaki and senju are known for...
: As well as Large physical energy for large chakra pool is something senju as well as naruto is known for...
: healing/restoring is something Karin and hashirama are known for...
: sensing is something karin and tobirama are known for as well...
Showing that both the SENJU and Uzumaki have the exact same abilities further confirming that both are one in the same wiht just two separate names...
Again, their common ancestor was STATED to have such abilities, so they can be separate clans and have such abilities since they have that common ancestor.

Quote:
4). it is confirmed that Uchiha+Senju is how you awaken and use the RG... Thus, Nagato who could use the RG would need to be SENJU to even use the eyes... Which he could...
Again, Nagato being Senju doesn't make all Uzumaki Senju, that's a fallacy of composition.

So yeah, all your 4 examples (not 5, you illiterate bum) are simply spawned from your lack of reading comprehension.

Quote:
LAMO, now your going to argue they are not uzumaki/senju or uchiha... WTF, keep deluding yourself...
Apparently you forgot that the sage split his power between his two sons along with his bloodline, thus You have two ootsutsuki's plus Yin and yang power of the Juubi in the mix to create two completely different clans...

Ootsutsuki bloodline+YIN half of the Juubi's power=Uchiha...
Ootsutsuki bloodline+Yang half of the Juubi=Senju which the Uzumaki belong too as a branch clan to the Senju...
Nice try, but your fan theories aren't canon. All this yin/yang bullshit about the Elder and Younger sons is not mentioned at all in the manga, so I'll treat it as it is, unsubstantiated speculation.

Also, yet another genealogy failure by you. Let's say your granddaughter marries a guy and they have a kid with a different surname then yours, do you suddenly have that surname? No? It's the exact same with the Sons and the Uchiha/Senju/Uzumaki: just because the three clans spawned from them does NOT make them part of those clans. Their clan was already revealed, it's the Ootsutsuki clan.


Quote:
Again the delusions fly high!!! The Elder son of the sage is confirmed as the UCHIHA CLAN
Panel proof please. All that was said is that the Uchiha clan came from him.

Quote:
while the Younger son of the sage is confirmed as the SENJU CLAN
Again, panel proof please. What was said is that the Senju AND Uzumaki came from him.

Quote:
And you still have not shown me where it was said that nagato is an Uzumaki and senju... Where is this said Numious??
It was said that he was Uzumaki in one instance and that he was Senju in another. Considering that it both clans already showed signs of union (Tsunade and Nawaki) and NOTHING was said about Uzumaki=Senju, the most logical conclusion is that Nagato was too from both clans.

Quote:
You still used donkeys and horses, not even people... And to try and explain how the certain clan magical ninja with god tree power are not what kishi already confirmed them to be...
What's with you and trying to deny very apt analogies with completely arbitrary excuses? If donkeys and horses are capable of having bloodlines and interbreeding and Narutoverse characters are capable of sexual reproduction, what's the issue? What's your major malfunction, numbnuts?

Quote:
Yea yea, keep telling yourself that... using an irrelevant source of info like the genealogy of horses and donkeys (which you did use) to try and explain what kishi has already confirmed, is wrong...
Now you're trying to say analogies are sources of info. There aren't enough facepalms in the world for this kind of arrogance and/or stupidity.

Quote:
Wrong, kishi confirmed that nagato as an Uzumaki belongs to the SENJU BLOODLINE...
Oh, please, do provide me the panel where it says that Nagato as an Uzumaki and not as himself belongs to the Senju bloodline. Really, I want to see that on black over white.



j-H: sorry, I always forget to put it on mangapanda. It's just that mangareader loads faster for me, that's why I have it bookmarked.
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:26 PM   #90
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Yeah I would still put tobirama over minato or itachi.
Sasuske might be stronger, but tobirama battle experience will make up for any difference and then some.
the guy with zabuza water jutsu, cannot even use edo tensai without actual proof of it and a hirahsin that requires tobi to directly touch the enemy and died against 20 fodders is above MInato and itachi...

Ok... You have at that... There is no ability/FEAT to even imply such a thing..

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
After reading this you're effectively stupid. Raichu sat behind Minato in speed, but he can outspeed the Dude that Minato copied in the first place?
I can see stupid is out early... Apparently you forgot that the hirashin is limited by the user's REFLEXES to react and activate hirahsin to avoid an attack, thus tobirama with his average kage level at best speed/reflexes could not possibly avoid a V2 raikage attack when it took Minato's level of reflexes and a hirahsin level 2 to dodge... Twice...

And sicne mInato's reflexes>>tobirama's... how can you not understand WHY Tobirama cannot possibly beat someone he cannot even touch much less avoid being one shoted like he was against V1 imperfect Juubito...

Quote:
Itachi defeating any Senju besides Tsundae? Really? And you believe this shiit?
LMFAO!!! Can the guy who beat Oro in mere seconds, TWICE, deidara, and Nagato plus the defeat of kakashi not even trying to kill him, hebi sasuke again trying even less to hurt him as well as dragon sage kabuto who only gave itachi trouble due to itachi having to protect sasuke... Without sauske, itach would have owned him just as easily... The guy who is closest to the sage of six paths then even madara, but not as much as obito...

Yea, that guy, Itachi with still arguably the best feats in the manga, cannot beat the senju who died against 20 fodders and has some of the worse for a kage LMAO...

Crazy must be a way of life considering the firtr half of this post form you neo.

Quote:
Tobirama off'd Izuna but would have a problem with Itachi, or Sasuke? 1 on 1? I'm a Sasuke Fan and I know he'd get his ass handed to him. Without Juugo, Karin, or even Suigetsu at times vs. something like Hachibi, Sasuke perished twice... basically stfu. It ain't like I'm happy about the shit but its fakt, stop trying to elevate Sasuke (at least right now, prior to this battle), or even Itachi is a fucking insult of common sense.
LMFAO, Tobirama landed 1 blow on izuna who was not evne using ANY MS jutsu, thus tobirama beat a BASE Izuna with what was likely an ambush, thus tobirama doe snot have much of a feat there...

And not to mention that Izuna has NO FEATS!!! NONE! ANd you put him above itachi or even sasuke... Such BIAS and Ignorance I am left almost speechless...
And I do not care what the manga HYPES him to be, HYPE=nothing... If HYPE=fact then hiruzen would be the shinobi no kami and the strongest LMAO...

Quote:
Remember though Izuna didn't have Totsuka Swords, or Yata Mirrors he had EMS, a level above Itachi, so stop fanning that Dude as if he matters in this level and he doesn't... wanna know why, BECAUSE HIS BRO SASUKE SURPASSED HIM ALREADY WITH EXCEPTION OF A COUPLE OF TOOLS/WEAPONS, AND SASUKE WOULD CURRENTLY DIE TO TOBIRAMA. THIS DUDE AND MINATO HAS TOUCH AND PUT DAMAGE ON OBITO THE SAGE, NOBODY ELSE BESIDES NARUTO CAN SAY THE SAME. STOP FANNING BEFORE ITS TIME.
God you are so stupid it is not even funny... Izuna with EMS.. You do realize it does not matter if Izuna was a Juubi JIN with a sharinnegan... If the guy did not use his powers while fighting with the senju and tobirama had to ambush him then tobirama is just an opportunist, not strong... LMAO...

Quote:
Also stop overrating the Uzimaki's off of bullshit, spit out they're feats please, I beg you. I'll help you Mito contained Kyuubs, and Kushina, and then comes Naruto and nothing else to talk about. Stop all the hype bullshit, give me some names of these Uber Uzimaki's please? I'm just waiting, let me know. Where are all of these Uber Uzimaki's... awaiting.... (an easy answer... author propaganda that you bought into, to make characters moar relevant).
God your a fucking idiot!!! Arguing with you is like arguing with my grandpa... How old are you...

Lets see powerful Uzumaki...
: Naruto...
: Nagato...

Powerful Senju...
: Hashirama.... That is it, tobirama is a failure as a senju..

SO yea, WTF are you talking about as usual...
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