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Old 10-31-2006, 03:36 PM   #1
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Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

AI will be used someday to help us out with our everyday need no doubt. heres some news i have found out from recent articles/my knowledge of the issue. U dont have to answer the questions (I HAVE WARNED U THIS IS A LONG POST SO PLZ DO NOT GIVE ME NEG REP CUZ ITS LONG ) EDITED NOW LONGER-

OK HEREZ THE DEBATE- Will AI be of any major concern or use in the future
BELOW IS JUST INFO I HAVE GATHERED
No queston in the near future as a product of being human, and
naturally flawed, it is assumed that the future holds intelligent "AI" which can help us with our everyday needs. Heres something to think about (this is not my question yet), We are already using "simple" forms of AI to help out in times of crisis, such as war, were the we'll be using a robot to search through a deadly site rather than using a human, and
potentially endangering one. AI, no question, especially in America is also used for missiles, jets, and for other instruments of war.
So to say that one day there will not be "intelligent" AI in the forms of humans someday in the NEAR future can be absurd.
1. Can and will anthroplogists/scientists/ANYONE be concerned about Artifical Humans and there impact on the environment? they will be a result of "human
enginuity".

The problems with human error and assumption-Hueristics and Bias- (I know this has to do more with pschology) We as humans take a literal comfort in our surroundings, to much so to not be aware of the global risks, such as major diseases, affecting our area, or where we live. For example Americans, although we are now taking steps to prepare for the avian flu if it spread here, in general, from what I know, have a feeling like thats not going to happen to us.
How does a society reach this comfort level as if
nothing will happen to them?


we assume probability based on the number of occurences an event has occurred. Like say for example, The average rate for death on
a plane is less than 6 percent (as of 2005 numbers) Now that would leave atleast a 94% chance that something doesnt happen. Normally, from a scientific point of view, this is logically a good ratio, and therefore you'll travel on the plane. It can also be said that
94% is lower than any other death from modes of transportation, thus it is safe to travel on a plane. Herein lies the Hueristics and bias, we naturally assume on good percentages, this is a result of human calculation, which can lead to potentially devastating error.Now ties the bond that creating intelligent "AI" can be potentially dangerous. Out of human error we could mistakingly create something dangerous. Something that could lead to global contreversy. I know this sounds like a story out of a movie but it is something that is very probable over the near future. If you disagree then go to the www.singinst.org/friendly site and read the articles on AI.

More on the issue think about this:
The postindustrial society will be fueled not by oil but by a new commodity called artificial intelligence (AI). We might regard it as a commodity because it has value and can be traded. Indeed, as will be made clear, the knowledge imbedded in AI software and hardware architectures will become even more salient as a foundation of wealth than the raw materials that fueled the first Industrial Revolution. It is an unusual commodity, because it has no material form. It can be a flow of information with no more physical reality than electrical vibrations in a wire.

If artificial intelligence is the fuel of the second industrial revolution, then we might ask what it is. One of the difficulties in addressing this issue is the amount of confusion and disagreement regarding the definition of the field. Other fields do not seem to have this problem. Books on biology do not generally begin with the question, What is biology, anyway? Predicting the future is always problematic, but it will be helpful if we attempt to define what it is we are predicting the future of.

One view is that AI is an attempt to answer a central question that has been debated by scientists, philosophers, and theologians for thousands of years. How does the human brain-three pounds of "ordinary" matter-give rise to thoughts, feelings, and consciousness? While certainly very complex, our brains are clearly governed by the same physical laws as our machines.

Viewed in this way, the human brain may be regarded as a very capable machine. Conversely, given sufficient capacity and the right techniques, our machines may ultimately be able to replicate human intelligence. Some philosophers and even a few AI scientists are offended by this characterization of the human mind as a machine, albeit an immensely complicated one. Others find the view inspiring: it means that we will ultimately be able to understand our minds and how they work.

One does not need to accept fully the notion that the human mind is "just" a machine to appreciate both the potential for machines to master many of our intellectual capabilities and the practical implications of doing so.

The Usual Definition

3. Do you think major controversy might be created over the develoment of intelligent AI?
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:27 PM   #2
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

OMG lyke rep-down'D 4 p0st beeing 2 long lolz!

Nah, just kidding, wasn't even that long. Besides, only a completely idiotic, whiny douche bag who'll probably end up being the singer in some emo band one day would bitch about someone's post being too long. ; )

Anyway, I doubt Artificial humans would run on gasoline or anything too enviormentally damaging. So not too worried about that.

As for the human error thing, yeah, there's probably a risk. That just means you've got to take extra precautions like emergency shutdowns and the like. No worries. Besides, reward would be greater than the risk, especially if they can make those hot-maid model andriods that you see in that Ghost in the Shell anime.
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Old 10-31-2006, 06:25 PM   #3
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

That post wasn't long at all. I'm disapointed.

Anyway, there are dangers in scientific advancement other than the advancement of AI: http://lifeboat.com/ex/faq. Robots won't become too smart and annihilate all humans if the Singularitiy Insititute's Friendly AI proposal is carried out. So it shouldn't be a massive problem.

As for the other dangers, one example would be the CERN particle accelerator. This big ass thing can zoom so far into an atom that it's astonishing, and will provide some major evidence to support or break current advancements in theoretical physics (string theory). However, to zoom in this much, a lot of compression takes place. This might cause mini-black holes to form (if gravity is stronger than we thought at small distances). Not good eh? Don't worry too much, because Hawking says that the black holes will disappear in a fraction of a second; the black holes won't do much damage (ie Hawking radiation). But what if he's wrong...? ANNIHILATION.

Chances are pretty low, though. A not-as accepted theory would have to be right, and a more-so accepted theory would have to be wrong.
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Old 11-01-2006, 07:49 PM   #4
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

What about the concept of Ai becoming too complex and almost human-like?

If that occures will it be flat out ignored because they are not in a shell that looks like a human...

Wasn't the root meaning of soul what truely defines whether something is living or not? And isn't consciousness what many see as something being alive?

So if they do have what seems like a consciousness... do then they have a soul?
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:21 AM   #5
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

thats very interesting, but u dont answer a question with a question.
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Old 11-02-2006, 03:30 PM   #6
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleq View Post
What about the concept of Ai becoming too complex and almost human-like?

If that occures will it be flat out ignored because they are not in a shell that looks like a human...

Wasn't the root meaning of soul what truely defines whether something is living or not? And isn't consciousness what many see as something being alive?

So if they do have what seems like a consciousness... do then they have a soul?
AI is just programming a program to program itself, you know? It doesn't necessarily have to be a replica of human intelligence. Any program, in fact, is somewhat a replica of human intelligence. And who's to measure complexity of a program in comparison to human thought? If we follow this line of logic, then a calculator is already more complex than the mathematical part of human thought, since it is much faster.

That's mainly the perks of AI anyway, the mathematical logic and computation. If we can program a computer to program itself, the computer can discover and develop better forms of mathematics faster and better than humans can. And with this powerful tool, we can achieve many many kinds of breakthroughs in science.
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Old 11-02-2006, 03:33 PM   #7
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

true. but remember the idea of logics came from the human first so the machines are limited in a way/
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:23 PM   #8
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

Actually, the brain has more processing power than a regular calculator. If the brain was limited to the circumstances of the calculator or a computer, the brain is faster than a super computer.

Additionally, the Hueristics and Bias that I saw in that site was complete crap. Well I should not say complete crap, it had very very nice ideas and neat references but I do not think the author actually understood what they were saying or how far they were generalizing. For the author (I am of course talking about your website), its almost like a philosophy. But there are various problems with this:

Although the brain is limited by experience as the author says, the brain also builds on experience so that it can learn. Thus there is a very large jump in logic for his argument, it simply makes no sense to keep just intelligence without experience in the brain. Additionally, one cannot rely on 100% proof. The author seems to imply that anything that can go wrong will go wrong, and uses this stock as an example:

You will have $10 increase 98% of the time.
$1000 decrease 2% of the time.

Notice that if you multiplied everything out, there would be a SIGNIFICANT decrease. There would be atleast a $1020 decrease regularly, this is a very bad deal. He seems to be saying that this is a black swan, but this is simply mathematics. The dice is also explained less than satisfactory for me. There are just too many faults in his use of statistics. He is using bad data to ingrain undesirable things in the reader.

Although the dice one was probably the best used of the bunch, and I can agree that it actually made a point. But it is better to say, that if someone takes statistics and such, these biases can be eliminated. So how far his idea extends is very questionable.

Don't get me wrong though, there was some good points made in this article. Its just that the idea he has is incomplete. We cannot have a defense against everything, we need to narrow the field so that something with more odds of happening can actually be prevented. Specialization is needed atleast a bit. There is no reason to fear everything, some things require more attention than others. Absolute defense is only nice in theory.

Anyway, haven't seen the AI part yet. But as far as I can see, they are taking necessary steps to prevent movie plots from happening.
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:00 PM   #9
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

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Originally Posted by sasuke_power View Post
thats very interesting, but u dont answer a question with a question.
I was answering "3. Do you think major controversy might be created over the develoment of intelligent AI?"

And no offense, but if I so choose I will answer a question with a question...
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Old 11-04-2006, 12:29 AM   #10
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Re: Concept of AI-CAUTION LONG POST!

watver. no need for flames to start. how to flare of dragon. the part with hueristic and bias, well that was written by a person I heard is real famous in the scientific community so there are many that hold what he says with a lot of value. I do see ur point though of it being philosophical crap. thats why this is a debate non the less
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