The Crusades and Christianity - Fandom Forums
Fandom Forums



Go Back   Fandom Forums > Indepth Interests > Debates Section

Debates Section Enjoy a good discussion? This is the place for you! Only knowledgeable discussions allowed!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-04-2007, 11:40 PM   #1
Tabris
Sexy Lady
 
Tabris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in a box, out side your house, with binoculars.
Posts: 778
Thanks: 5,570
Thanked 4,329 Times in 1,961 Posts
Tabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really nice
The Crusades and Christianity

i've heard many peope complain about how Christians acted in the Crusades.
before this begins i would like to say something.

they were the CATHOLIC Crusades.

Yes they were sanctioned by the catholic leader, the pope. but as "holy" as the pope may be considered he is still only human like you and me. just like any human when you have power, as the catholic church did, over people and state, you can easily become power abusive.

At that time the bible was being read to the masses in latin, but unless you went to university you could not understand what was being said.

peopel were lead through ceramonies and rituals that they thought would bring them closer to God. Most of these, like buying indulgences to get your family out of purgatory and giving large offerings for the forgiving of sin were no where int he bible and was thought up by some one in charge who wanted more money.

So the people did not understand the bible and just did what they were told, being led to believe that this is what God willed.

Now, if the catholic authorities would take so much out of the people, with the threat of "excomunication" in hand (basically condemning them to hell)
why would they not want more?

Soon the Crusades began, the peopel were once again led to belive it was "Gods will" and jsut fought like they were told, all the while never understanding or reading the bible for themselves.

Now, Christianity does not believe in having a mediater (a priese or otherwise) to tell us what God said or to talk to Gode for us.

We are encouraged to build our own relationship with God, so that we may read the Bible ourselves and understand what he wants for our lives, and believe me, since the old testament no one has been ordered by God to rid the earth of peoepl who didn't believe in him.

It was Jesus who hung out with the kind of poepel the crusaders woudl have been kiling. Jesus healed the sickly, so he had to hang out with them some time. he spoke w/ criminals, and harlots and tax collectors! people every one hated and saw as unclean to even go near in those days. Jesus loved those people, because who needs love more than those who have none?

If the Pope sanctioned killling the "non-beleivers" he obviously dind't know his Lord very well, or perhaps at all.

The Crusades took place in a time when the chruch was particularily corrupt.
Not all christians, catholics and all that, are people like that.

my point is, i'm tired of people saying God was the casue of all that suffering, when it was really human greed.


...sorry i think i ranted a fair bit....

NOte: i didn't go into detail about alot of stuff, like the specific details in the two religions. if need be i will explain them more fully later on, or if you are particularily curious PM me and i happilly ablige you ^_^

Last edited by Tabris; 06-04-2007 at 11:51 PM.
Tabris is offline  


Old 06-04-2007, 11:51 PM   #2
lilk04
Chuunin
 
lilk04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: U.S.A
Age: 23
Posts: 415
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
lilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud oflilk04 has much to be proud of
Re: The Crusades and Christianity

Thanks for creating this thread, it aslo aggitated me a bit that people commonly mis-iterpreted the Crusades. So, basically I agree wit you. :tup:
__________________

- I've already made the jump, now I'm just waiting to hit the ground -
- If you can't feel my love, then I'll bear your pain -
- Our Lady Peace -


Member of:
Co-Owner of Hokage Power aka The Mist Village's Hokage Power FC


Co-Owner of Sealed Chain FC

lilk04 is offline  
Old 06-04-2007, 11:54 PM   #3
Tabris
Sexy Lady
 
Tabris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in a box, out side your house, with binoculars.
Posts: 778
Thanks: 5,570
Thanked 4,329 Times in 1,961 Posts
Tabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really niceTabris is just really nice
Re: The Crusades and Christianity

yay! *hugs lilk*
now i am eager to hear from other people!
unfortunately i must leave now, got a exam tomorrow
thanks for creating such interesting conversation w/ me lilk, i hope to do this with you some time again ^_^
g'night
Tabris is offline  
Old 06-05-2007, 01:36 PM   #4
Miburo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Crusades and Christianity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabris View Post
they were the CATHOLIC Crusades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The Crusades were a series of military conflicts of a religious character waged by Christians during 1095–1291, most of which were sanctioned by the Pope in the name of Christendom.[1] The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred "Holy Land" from Muslim rule and were originally launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuq dynasty into Anatolia.[2][3]
Source
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Crawford
On November 27, 1095, Pope Urban II gave an important speech at the end of a church council in Clermont, France. In it he called upon the nobility of Western Europe, the Franks, to go to the East and assist their Christian brothers, the Byzantines, against the attacks of the Muslim Turks. He also apparently encouraged them to liberate Jerusalem, the most sacred and beloved city in Christendom, from the domination of Muslims who had ruled it since taking it from the Christian Byzantines in A.D. 638. Several versions of this speech have survived, and although we cannot be sure of the exact words the Pope used, the general outlines of his speech are fairly clear.
Source
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Cline
Understanding the Crusades requires understanding that, contrary to traditional stereotypes, they weren't simply an aggressive military campaign against Muslim lands, nor were they merely a defensive military campaign against Muslims on the Iberian peninsula and in the Mediterranean. The Crusades, all of them, were in the first place an attempt to impose orthodox Christianity via military force across a wide swath of territory, and second, the product of Christian contact with a militarily powerful, culturally self-confident, and economically expansionistic religious civilization.
Source

Yeah, er...maybe I'm missing something. I think an explaination of the difference between Christianity and Catholisism is in order. Perferably one with a source listed, if possible. Because I'm kinda starting to think it's either mostly semantics or that it might involve a "No true scotsman" fallacy or two.
 
Old 06-05-2007, 01:39 PM   #5
DarkAztek
Sand Man
 
DarkAztek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 31
Posts: 3,324
Thanks: 64
Thanked 582 Times in 189 Posts
DarkAztek is a name known to allDarkAztek is a name known to allDarkAztek is a name known to allDarkAztek is a name known to allDarkAztek is a name known to allDarkAztek is a name known to allDarkAztek is a name known to allDarkAztek is a name known to allDarkAztek is a name known to all
Re: The Crusades and Christianity

Wait... The thing you want to debate is whether or not God is the source of suffering from the Crusades? ...No. That was man. All people can make mistakes and be corrupted and all that jazz. There is no debate here. Just a pseudo-int. rant.
__________________
[CENTER]
Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER]
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]
DarkAztek is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.