The Crusades and Christianity

Tabris · 06-04-2007, 11:40 PM

i've heard many peope complain about how Christians acted in the Crusades.
before this begins i would like to say something.

they were the CATHOLIC Crusades.

Yes they were sanctioned by the catholic leader, the pope. but as "holy" as the pope may be considered he is still only human like you and me. just like any human when you have power, as the catholic church did, over people and state, you can easily become power abusive.

At that time the bible was being read to the masses in latin, but unless you went to university you could not understand what was being said.

peopel were lead through ceramonies and rituals that they thought would bring them closer to God. Most of these, like buying indulgences to get your family out of purgatory and giving large offerings for the forgiving of sin were no where int he bible and was thought up by some one in charge who wanted more money.

So the people did not understand the bible and just did what they were told, being led to believe that this is what God willed.

Now, if the catholic authorities would take so much out of the people, with the threat of "excomunication" in hand (basically condemning them to hell)
why would they not want more?

Soon the Crusades began, the peopel were once again led to belive it was "Gods will" and jsut fought like they were told, all the while never understanding or reading the bible for themselves.

Now, Christianity does not believe in having a mediater (a priese or otherwise) to tell us what God said or to talk to Gode for us.

We are encouraged to build our own relationship with God, so that we may read the Bible ourselves and understand what he wants for our lives, and believe me, since the old testament no one has been ordered by God to rid the earth of peoepl who didn't believe in him.

It was Jesus who hung out with the kind of poepel the crusaders woudl have been kiling. Jesus healed the sickly, so he had to hang out with them some time. he spoke w/ criminals, and harlots and tax collectors! people every one hated and saw as unclean to even go near in those days. Jesus loved those people, because who needs love more than those who have none?

If the Pope sanctioned killling the "non-beleivers" he obviously dind't know his Lord very well, or perhaps at all.

The Crusades took place in a time when the chruch was particularily corrupt.
Not all christians, catholics and all that, are people like that.

my point is, i'm tired of people saying God was the casue of all that suffering, when it was really human greed.

...sorry i think i ranted a fair bit....

NOte: i didn't go into detail about alot of stuff, like the specific details in the two religions. if need be i will explain them more fully later on, or if you are particularily curious PM me and i happilly ablige you ^_^

lilk04 · 06-04-2007, 11:51 PM

Thanks for creating this thread, it aslo aggitated me a bit that people commonly mis-iterpreted the Crusades. So, basically I agree wit you. :tup:

Tabris · 06-04-2007, 11:54 PM

yay! *hugs lilk*
now i am eager to hear from other people!
unfortunately i must leave now, got a exam tomorrow
thanks for creating such interesting conversation w/ me lilk, i hope to do this with you some time again ^_^
g'night

06-05-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris

they were the CATHOLIC Crusades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Crusades were a series of military conflicts of a religious character waged by Christians during 1095–1291, most of which were sanctioned by the Pope in the name of Christendom.[1] The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred "Holy Land" from Muslim rule and were originally launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuq dynasty into Anatolia.[2][3]

Source

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Crawford

On November 27, 1095, Pope Urban II gave an important speech at the end of a church council in Clermont, France. In it he called upon the nobility of Western Europe, the Franks, to go to the East and assist their Christian brothers, the Byzantines, against the attacks of the Muslim Turks. He also apparently encouraged them to liberate Jerusalem, the most sacred and beloved city in Christendom, from the domination of Muslims who had ruled it since taking it from the Christian Byzantines in A.D. 638. Several versions of this speech have survived, and although we cannot be sure of the exact words the Pope used, the general outlines of his speech are fairly clear.

Source

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin Cline

Understanding the Crusades requires understanding that, contrary to traditional stereotypes, they weren't simply an aggressive military campaign against Muslim lands, nor were they merely a defensive military campaign against Muslims on the Iberian peninsula and in the Mediterranean. The Crusades, all of them, were in the first place an attempt to impose orthodox Christianity via military force across a wide swath of territory, and second, the product of Christian contact with a militarily powerful, culturally self-confident, and economically expansionistic religious civilization.

Source

Yeah, er...maybe I'm missing something. I think an explaination of the difference between Christianity and Catholisism is in order. Perferably one with a source listed, if possible. Because I'm kinda starting to think it's either mostly semantics or that it might involve a "No true scotsman" fallacy or two.

DarkAztek · 06-05-2007, 01:39 PM

Wait... The thing you want to debate is whether or not God is the source of suffering from the Crusades? ...No. That was man. All people can make mistakes and be corrupted and all that jazz. There is no debate here. Just a pseudo-int. rant.

06-04-2007, 11:40 PM	#1
Tabris Sexy Lady Join Date: May 2005 Location: in a box, out side your house, with binoculars. Posts: 778 Thanks: 5,576 Thanked 4,305 Times in 1,958 Posts	The Crusades and Christianity i've heard many peope complain about how Christians acted in the Crusades. before this begins i would like to say something. they were the CATHOLIC Crusades. Yes they were sanctioned by the catholic leader, the pope. but as "holy" as the pope may be considered he is still only human like you and me. just like any human when you have power, as the catholic church did, over people and state, you can easily become power abusive. At that time the bible was being read to the masses in latin, but unless you went to university you could not understand what was being said. peopel were lead through ceramonies and rituals that they thought would bring them closer to God. Most of these, like buying indulgences to get your family out of purgatory and giving large offerings for the forgiving of sin were no where int he bible and was thought up by some one in charge who wanted more money. So the people did not understand the bible and just did what they were told, being led to believe that this is what God willed. Now, if the catholic authorities would take so much out of the people, with the threat of "excomunication" in hand (basically condemning them to hell) why would they not want more? Soon the Crusades began, the peopel were once again led to belive it was "Gods will" and jsut fought like they were told, all the while never understanding or reading the bible for themselves. Now, Christianity does not believe in having a mediater (a priese or otherwise) to tell us what God said or to talk to Gode for us. We are encouraged to build our own relationship with God, so that we may read the Bible ourselves and understand what he wants for our lives, and believe me, since the old testament no one has been ordered by God to rid the earth of peoepl who didn't believe in him. It was Jesus who hung out with the kind of poepel the crusaders woudl have been kiling. Jesus healed the sickly, so he had to hang out with them some time. he spoke w/ criminals, and harlots and tax collectors! people every one hated and saw as unclean to even go near in those days. Jesus loved those people, because who needs love more than those who have none? If the Pope sanctioned killling the "non-beleivers" he obviously dind't know his Lord very well, or perhaps at all. The Crusades took place in a time when the chruch was particularily corrupt. Not all christians, catholics and all that, are people like that. my point is, i'm tired of people saying God was the casue of all that suffering, when it was really human greed. ...sorry i think i ranted a fair bit.... NOte: i didn't go into detail about alot of stuff, like the specific details in the two religions. if need be i will explain them more fully later on, or if you are particularily curious PM me and i happilly ablige you ^_^ __________________ C&H FTW official co-owner of the digimon fan club! Last edited by Tabris; 06-04-2007 at 11:51 PM.

06-04-2007, 11:51 PM	#2
lilk04 Chuunin Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: U.S.A Age: 22 Posts: 415 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: The Crusades and Christianity Thanks for creating this thread, it aslo aggitated me a bit that people commonly mis-iterpreted the Crusades. So, basically I agree wit you. :tup: __________________ - I've already made the jump, now I'm just waiting to hit the ground - - If you can't feel my love, then I'll bear your pain - - Our Lady Peace - Member of: Co-Owner of Hokage Power aka The Mist Village's Hokage Power FC Co-Owner of Sealed Chain FC

06-04-2007, 11:54 PM	#3
Tabris Sexy Lady Join Date: May 2005 Location: in a box, out side your house, with binoculars. Posts: 778 Thanks: 5,576 Thanked 4,305 Times in 1,958 Posts	Re: The Crusades and Christianity yay! hugs lilk now i am eager to hear from other people! unfortunately i must leave now, got a exam tomorrow thanks for creating such interesting conversation w/ me lilk, i hope to do this with you some time again ^_^ g'night __________________ C&H FTW official co-owner of the digimon fan club!

06-05-2007, 01:39 PM	#5
DarkAztek Sand Man Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Massachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 3,324 Thanks: 64 Thanked 583 Times in 190 Posts	Re: The Crusades and Christianity Wait... The thing you want to debate is whether or not God is the source of suffering from the Crusades? ...No. That was man. All people can make mistakes and be corrupted and all that jazz. There is no debate here. Just a pseudo-int. rant. __________________ [CENTER] Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER] [CENTER] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER] [center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]

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