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Old 01-12-2010, 01:40 PM   #7666
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamps123 View Post
sasuke now vs itachi healthy?
naruto vs itachi healthy?
jiraya vs itachi healthy?
all the batlle in an open field. eg konoha crater.
you can just list the winners in this three scenarios and why
Sasuke vs healthy itachi?

If sasuke fights like hes been fighting (with anger, no strategy) he gets owned. If he fights like he used to with strategy he should be an even fight IMO. Still, itachi with a 2.5 chakra/stamina level seriously ill should have like a freaking 5 like naruto if healthy then which means itachi can outlast sasuke so itachi should win IMO.

Naruto vs lol regular on brink of death itachi already after fighting Oro?

Itachi still owns naruto even in SM because hes just too weak against genjutsu. And even if somehow hes able to break a regular genjutsu then itachis tsukuyomi would ass rape him just as it could anyone else.

Jman vs healthy itachi?

Seriously? A healthy itachi would murder pain even without tsukuyomi. Even against a regualr unhealthy itachi Jman just has no defense for any of the MS jutsu itachi weilds. Meanwhile, itachis regular SG and godlike speed allow him to anticipate and dodge anything Jman even in HM can fire at him.
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No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 01-12-2010, 02:29 PM   #7667
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

We don't know how strong Itachi could have truly been, but he isn't some all around God of the shinobi world. It appeared as though Itachi's condition (when Sasuke started to amp up the pace of the battle) had more to do with the effects of Tsukuyomi. When Sasuke overpowered it, the effects reversed on Itachi (which would dampen his vision and reflex timing).

We later find out by Zetsu, that Itachi was much stronger, as in he took blows that he shouldn't have, and that he wasn't really fighting like himself. With Madara revealing the so called "truth" it was made fact that Itachi let Sasuke win. If Itachi really wanted to, he could have killed Sasuke. Maybe that's what Zetsu meant in terms of much stronger. It's possible that Itachi purposely fell for the shuriken trap, or even let Sasuke reverse the Tsukuyomi on him. Itachi's true strength could more, or less, be associated with his instinct to kill without any form of dispense (like he did with the Uchiha [merciless].

I think Jiraiya fairs a good chance against Itachi. Jiraiya is physically stronger and has more chakra. Itachi is swifter and his target precision is more acute. (Basically like comparing Naruto and Sasuke, give, or take some abilities and what not).

Itachi is Sasuke's stepping stone like Jiraiya is Sasuke's. The manga doesn't make a clear indication on who's more powerful. Jiraya was reduced to swiss cheese, then again, he was up against a man who has never lost a fight, defeated the strongest shinobi (at the time), and carried the most venerable of dojutsu.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:42 PM   #7668
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Im not denying that Jman is very skilled as well as powerful, but the fact remains he couldnt even stop Oro after trying for years and years, but itachi causually not really trying as usual hands Oro his ass in a mere 3 seconds.

And the fact still remains that Jman even in HM is still not as fast as itachi, not as skilled. He can throw tons of jutsu itachis way, but the SG and itachis speed would just cause those jutsu to fail horribly.

So offensivly Jman cant touch itachi, but either of itachis MS jutsu are too much for someone even as good as Jman because amaterasu is instant, tsukuyomi is instant breakdown of ones spirit so frogs cant snap Jman out by ther time they figure out why hes on the floor unconscious and sasanoo even partial is practicly inpenatrable while itachis still alowed to attack freely.

Jman would need raikage super shushin speed to beat itachis MS jutsu.
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 01-12-2010, 08:40 PM   #7669
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Special One View Post
We don't know how strong Itachi could have truly been, but he isn't some all around God of the shinobi world. It appeared as though Itachi's condition (when Sasuke started to amp up the pace of the battle) had more to do with the effects of Tsukuyomi. When Sasuke overpowered it, the effects reversed on Itachi (which would dampen his vision and reflex timing).

We later find out by Zetsu, that Itachi was much stronger, as in he took blows that he shouldn't have, and that he wasn't really fighting like himself. With Madara revealing the so called "truth" it was made fact that Itachi let Sasuke win. If Itachi really wanted to, he could have killed Sasuke. Maybe that's what Zetsu meant in terms of much stronger. It's possible that Itachi purposely fell for the shuriken trap, or even let Sasuke reverse the Tsukuyomi on him. Itachi's true strength could more, or less, be associated with his instinct to kill without any form of dispense (like he did with the Uchiha [merciless].

I think Jiraiya fairs a good chance against Itachi. Jiraiya is physically stronger and has more chakra. Itachi is swifter and his target precision is more acute. (Basically like comparing Naruto and Sasuke, give, or take some abilities and what not).

Itachi is Sasuke's stepping stone like Jiraiya is Sasuke's. The manga doesn't make a clear indication on who's more powerful. Jiraya was reduced to swiss cheese, then again, he was up against a man who has never lost a fight, defeated the strongest shinobi (at the time), and carried the most venerable of dojutsu.

Nice post, it all comes down to if Jiriaya can get into hm if he can itachi's dead if not and itachi tsukuyomi's him off the bat he'll lose...

but because Jiriaya can use summons and keep itachi busy then yes Jiriaya can easily get into HM since itachi cannot counter with summons like Pain did..

oNCE IN hM tSUKUYOMI IS USELESS cause he got 2 toads... any moron who says jiraiya doesn't know about it when kakshi did in part 1 is beyond fucking retarded.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:13 PM   #7670
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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Originally Posted by Myth View Post
Nice post, it all comes down to if Jiriaya can get into hm if he can itachi's dead if not and itachi tsukuyomi's him off the bat he'll lose...

but because Jiriaya can use summons and keep itachi busy then yes Jiriaya can easily get into HM since itachi cannot counter with summons like Pain did..

oNCE IN hM tSUKUYOMI IS USELESS cause he got 2 toads... any moron who says jiraiya doesn't know about it when kakshi did in part 1 is beyond fucking retarded.
Good god I swear u must be the worst troll ever!!!

Kakashi new about tsukuyomi after it kicked his ass lol. And Jman showed no knowledge that the MS even existed until itachi used it.

And if ur still too slow to get it, wether KB with his bijuu or Jman with frogs on his shoulder itachis tsukuyomi effects cant be broken like sasukes as mentioned by kakashi himselfhttp://onemanga.com/naruto/258/10/

^^So frogs on the shoulder wont help when Jmans defeated in an instant in reality after sufering 3 days of torture in tsukuyomi. Jman HM or not just cant beat itachi because he has no defense against any of the MS jutsu.
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:31 PM   #7671
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

kyf no offense, i respect u for making good arguments but u overhype the sharingan...Its not that u like sasuke 2 much u just like sharingan too much
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:02 AM   #7672
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

I'll side with KYF for the mere fact that itachi has the shield and the sword
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:04 AM   #7673
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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How about we ask the mods to delete this thread cause to much fail has been posted in here and its just sad how a once good thread turned to shit so fast.
True. The reason I posted the change of scenario because the last time I posted it, it was analyze throughly. Now its just meh........
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:44 AM   #7674
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Jiraiya vs Itachi? I haven't bothered looking up the stipulations. Am I correct in assuming they're both in character and current (not dead, obviously)? If so....Itachi has huge chances of catching Jiraiya in genjutsu, be it Sharingan based, or finger based. Jiraiya knows Itachi is a genjutsu specialist, and I feel bad for him here. I do so, because it's so ridiculously IC for Itachi to start fights with genjutsu, and Jiraiya, at least in base form, has terrible defense against genjutsu. Without delving too deep into this (for now), if Itachi can catch Jiraiya in genjutsu at the very start, and follow it up with an actual way to finish Jiraiya off, then he wins. HM doesn't even become an issue. However, if Itachi doesn't finish Jiraiya off, then Jiraiya wins. A simple kunai to the face won't do much, since Jiraiya has a high threshold for pain. Tsukuyomi, again....Jiraiya willed himself back from death, and fought with an arm blown off while being gang raped. The man can take pain like no one else I've seen.

Well, I guess Hidan can... >_>

Anyway, I don't see Tsukuyomi finishing Jiraiya off. Amaterasu may do the trick, assuming Itachi keeps his focus on Jiraiya, and doesn't just ignite him, then walk away. Susano'o would obviously guarantee the victory for Itachi. I'm wondering if it's considered IC for Jiraiya to not look at Itachi's eyes when the fight starts. But we don't know if he's capable of fighting like that, since he's not Gai. But, he does know that it's a horribly stupid mistake to look at Itachi's eyes. He'd be start to start the fight by quickly summoning toads to buy him time for HM. At least 2-3 well sized toads should do the trick. Itachi can't genjutsu all of them at once, and he'd be really dumb to waste Amaterasu on them. Once Jiraiya makes it to HM, the fight is over. Jiraiya's base stats are increased quite a bit, giving him much better resistance to genjutsu, and well, obviously everything else is superior.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:50 PM   #7675
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

jiraiya never went hm agaisnt oro i dont think

but still, itachi keeps finishing oro faar too fast and easily...it just begs the question if he can do the same to jiraiya

obv jiraiya is skilled and is a powerhouse
but remember back in that hotel....wtf would jiraiya do if itachi amaterasud him right there and then when there was no where to run?

itachi unlike sasuke finishes ppl really fast...he even hinted it saying hes faster at this than kisame...kakashi also hinted at his handsign speed and so did sasuke

itachi will aim for the quick kill, even if he doesnt know jiraiyas hm he will still genjutsu right off the bat and follow it up with a deadly attack

mikeym
i agree with u but when u said not look at itachis eyes...it becomes double edged...itachi is so fast with handsigns..if u dont look at his eyes he will just attack u or perhaps just go for amaterasu
if jiraiya goes hm it will probably force itachi into susanoo in which jiraiya may do some summons.
but obv will get susanoo pwned.... if its itachi thats wielding ms jutsus its just faaar too unfair

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Old 01-13-2010, 01:25 PM   #7676
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

he uses them in order tsuku ama susanoo
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:39 PM   #7677
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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Originally Posted by freedom07 View Post
but still, itachi keeps finishing oro faar too fast and easily...
Orochimaru is arrogant, plain and simple. He fell prey to Itachi. What bothers me, though, is that he's a genjutsu master (a full 5 in his genjutsu stat), yet was near powerless against Itachi. At least he nearly managed to break the genjutsu when they were in Akatsuki.

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it just begs the question if he can do the same to jiraiya
Anyone can defeat anyone quickly given the right circumstances. *shrug* If we take stats and statements into account, base Orochimaru managed to still move while in Itachi's genjutsu, and he nearly broke out of it. Itachi didn't strengthen his genjutsu, he chose to physically stop Orochimaru from breaking the illusion. If base Jiraiya were caught in the genjutsu, I don't see him moving at all or being capable of breaking out of it.

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obv jiraiya is skilled and is a powerhouse
but remember back in that hotel....wtf would jiraiya do if itachi amaterasud him right there and then when there was no where to run?
It goes both ways. What would have happened if Jiraiya chose to use the toad stomach to swallow up Itachi and Kisame? Or to bind them completely while they're met with Rasengans to the face? Both parties were at risk there.

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itachi unlike sasuke finishes ppl really fast...he even hinted it saying hes faster at this than kisame...kakashi also hinted at his handsign speed and so did sasuke
That's true. Sasuke seems to enjoy toying around and fighting recklessly when he has back up.

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itachi will aim for the quick kill, even if he doesnt know jiraiyas hm he will still genjutsu right off the bat and follow it up with a deadly attack
I'm confident Itachi knows Jiraiya has HM. Itachi seems to know a whole hell of a lot of things he logically shouldn't know, but does anyway. And that's where things go in Itachi's favor most of the time. He starts fights off using genjutsu, because he knows that's the fastest way to victory, unless he's fighting someone who has resistance to it.

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mikeym
i agree with u but when u said not look at itachis eyes...it becomes double edged...itachi is so fast with handsigns..if u dont look at his eyes he will just attack u or perhaps just go for amaterasu
Gai managed to fight Itachi by not looking at his eyes. I don't know for how long, but he managed to do so, and he's still alive and uninjured. I know Jiraiya is no taijutsu master, not even in HM. But that is still a possible way to combat someone like Itachi. Gai has proven that at least. Jiraiya seriously needs toad summonings here.

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if jiraiya goes hm it will probably force itachi into susanoo in which jiraiya may do some summons.
I see Jiraiya needing summons far before Susano'o is used.

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but obv will get susanoo pwned.... if its itachi thats wielding ms jutsus its just faaar too unfair
I don't think Jiraiya knows how Itachi's Susano'o works. He'll probably trial and error his way through the beginning of it, learning the effects of the items. Though, once that happens, he'll realize that Frog Song is needed. Frog Song should be the game ender if it gets that far. Itachi's eyes are fucked up by the time Susano'o is used, so he can't just break through the genjutsu/see through it as he would any other genjutsu. That, and Frog Song is no normal genjutsu. Once trapped, Itachi should be technically fully paralyzed and under it's effects.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:07 PM   #7678
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Mikey ur taking things to far saying jiraiya wouldn't be able to break out of a regular genjutsu lmfaooo.. he knows how to break from 1 its not to much to do naruto couldn't do it because his chakra control isn't that good or wasn't back then...

A normal genjutsu would be useless since in part 1 he was able to identifiy that the woman was under a sharingan based genjutsu and broke her out of it... No itachi's only hope is to use tsukuyomi right off the bat.. assuming jiraiya stands still then it wouldn't work.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:17 PM   #7679
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth View Post
Mikey ur taking things to far saying jiraiya wouldn't be able to break out of a regular genjutsu lmfaooo..
I think I may have worded things wrong. I know he's capable of breaking out of "normal" genjutsu. But Sharingan genjutsu isn't normal. Especially not from someone who is a genjutsu master using that form of genjutsu.

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Originally Posted by Myth View Post
he knows how to break from 1 its not to much to do naruto couldn't do it because his chakra control isn't that good or wasn't back then...
So you're saying Jiraiya's chakra control is on par with Orochimaru? Because he actually managed to be caught in Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu and still manage to move and attempt to break it. But we have to remember that Orochimaru has a full five in his genjutsu stat, while Jiraiya just has a 3. His chakra control, as far as genjutsu resistance/defense, sounds about average to me. If Jiraiya manages to break out of his Sharingan genjutsu, I'd wager it's because Itachi allowed it, or was distracted by something else. Not because of Jiraiya's chakra control or genjutsu resistance being so great or over powering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth View Post
A normal genjutsu would be useless since in part 1 he was able to identifiy that the woman was under a sharingan based genjutsu and broke her out of it...
You do know that Itachi can strengthen his genjutsu whenever he wants, right? Not all genjutsu are of the same strength, and he had absolutely no reason to use strong genjutsu against that woman. Also, it's not difficult to break someone else out of a weak genjutsu. That argument for Jiraiya seems moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth View Post
No itachi's only hope is to use tsukuyomi right off the bat.. assuming jiraiya stands still then it wouldn't work.
Itachi would need it, yes, but his Sharingan genjutsu, depending on it's strength, would work wonders, too. I'm not saying it's a game ender, but it is a set up to a game ender.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:06 PM   #7680
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

I think yall are seriously underetsimating itachi.

Just Itachis crow bushin beat naruto despite already going through wind training and knowing how to fight a SG user. He lost to just his bushin!!!!

Narutos chakra control is good enough he mastered SM in days while Jman couldnt in his lifetime so its obvious Jman<naruto in chakra control. A simple SG genjutsu should beat Jman IMO. And if for some reason hes able to resist like Oro, itachi can attack with high speed taijutsu while casting a genjutsu so good luck Jman lol.
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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