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Old 06-29-2012, 04:59 PM   #10426
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

How about this four-way tag-team rumble:
Sarutobi(old)/Orochimaru vs. Minato/Kakashi(MS) vs. Jiraya/Naruto (Senjutsu and FRS, no Kurama mode) vs. Muu/Oonoki(young)
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:56 PM   #10427
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Skilled as Hiruzen is, he's not going to fare well against any of the other teams. Both Minato/Kakashi and Jiraiya/Naruto have intense speed and power advantages, while Muu/Onoki can flat out One-Hit everything. Minato and Kakashi are the only ones with a prayer in hell of surviving Dust Element thanks to their space-time techniques, so it boils down to Muu/Onoki vs Minato/Kakashi. Onoki I can definitely see the team 7 tag team beating, but Muu would be virtually impossible for them to detect. Minato would be able to nullify his techs or even turn them against Muu, but only if he knew where Muu was or had already placed a hiraishin seal on him (unlikely). In the end I give it to Muu/Onoki.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:56 PM   #10428
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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Originally Posted by AOTKorby View Post
Skilled as Hiruzen is, he's not going to fare well against any of the other teams. Both Minato/Kakashi and Jiraiya/Naruto have intense speed and power advantages, while Muu/Onoki can flat out One-Hit everything. Minato and Kakashi are the only ones with a prayer in hell of surviving Dust Element thanks to their space-time techniques, so it boils down to Muu/Onoki vs Minato/Kakashi. Onoki I can definitely see the team 7 tag team beating, but Muu would be virtually impossible for them to detect. Minato would be able to nullify his techs or even turn them against Muu, but only if he knew where Muu was or had already placed a hiraishin seal on him (unlikely). In the end I give it to Muu/Onoki.
Interesting analysis.

This one, imo, is a coin toss.

Each team has a weak point. Team Hiruzen/Oro is arguably the weakest in taijutsu, because of their lack of speed compared to the others. Team Minato/Kakashi has the lowest stamina amongst the duos thanks to Kakashi; so if the longer this fight goes, the worse it gets for this team. Team Jiraya/Naruto's weakness is genjutsu. And Muu/Oonoki, as far as we know, don't have a summon to aid in the fight, but they have the one-hit-kill jutsus as you've said.

Since stamina, age, and speed are concerns for Hiruzen and Oro, I've got them being the first team out.

While Kakashi and Minato have t/s jutsus, Minato is possibly limited to Gamabunta as a summon, while Jiraya has been known to summon a plethora of them. Not to mention that both he and Naruto have the stamina. Once Kakashi has used Kamui once, I think he's down for the count, and Minato wouldn't be able to handle Jiraya, Naruto, and the summons by himself. The senjutsu for both Jiraya and Naruto would aid in their defense against Minato's FTG.

Since Oonoki can fly, and both he and Muu have the dust element, I think they could outlast Naruto and Jiraya, and one-hit-kill them.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:30 PM   #10429
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

J_H, I put my bet on minato/kikashi.

Cause age really play apart and old sarutobi is straight out of it... (unless madara is team mate, orochimaru is alright but not outstanding)

And young onoki can't even tell madara was toying with him and brag to the world he battle to a draw, showing a miserable lack in experience so he's out of it too... (again same as old sarutobi, if madara is onoki partner than there's chance)

And so when it comes down to minato/kakashi vs jiraiya/naruto...

I am sure naruto will be a lot more if he can (as he always did) called upon the fox power which in this case he can't.

Thus minato/kakashi is my bet.

Edit: i forgot about Oro and his Edo Tensei technique. But i think if you count Edo Tensei in, it will be a big advantage to Orochimaru team.

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Old 06-30-2012, 12:50 AM   #10430
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
How about this four-way tag-team rumble:
Sarutobi(old)/Orochimaru vs. Minato/Kakashi(MS) vs. Jiraya/Naruto (Senjutsu and FRS, no Kurama mode) vs. Muu/Oonoki(young)
These are nothing but student teacher match ups.

Sarutobi has all the jutsu , but Orochi has many as well, plus they know each other's moves well.

VS

Minato has excellent taijutsu with FTG/Kakashi doesn't just rely on MS, he has many jutsu as well. Minato and Kakashi would have each others backs well.


Outcome.....

Minato surpassed Sarutobi BEFORE he got old, his speed would stop/counter Sarutobi from using those jutsu of his.
Kakashi may get in a situation where he has to use Orochimaru's weakness, Sharinghan genjutsu. If he gets in trouble Minato will help, since he would take out Sarutobi alone.



J-man is the MASTER of SAGE arts, he knows Sage jutsu Naruto doesn't. he is a master of the rasengan as well, in his own right.

Naruto is a Toad Sage with perfected Sage mode that he can get in and out of quicker than J-man. He has perfected Rasengan it is an ideal part of his taijutsu. plus Rasenshuriken is remote control.

VS

Muu has that split jutsu BUT i think that is in emergency only and he has the dust element plus flight.

Oonki is really just a copy of Muu without the split technique and not as strong(younger version)

Outcome...

Sage mode saves from dust element. sage arts allows hitting target without contact. RS takes out target form long range.

Even if they outlast J-Man Naruto has stamina and clones with NE gathered. (if he knows he is going into a fight.)

Minato/Kakashi VS J-man/Naruto

Speed of Minato will be a issue, but with the durability and Sensing ability of Sage Mode....not much. One good shot from either one will take Minato out, more than likely it would be a collision of strikes from both, Minato lacks the durability...KO.

Kakashi won't last against either one of them, he has never surpassed J-man and Naruto has already surpassed him (BEFORE RS mode). Besides Minato will still be in defend/offensive/save partner mode. His down fall as well.

Outcome is Team Toad Sage wins.

also in the last fight NO TOAD summons, they are not gonna fight each other no matter who summons them.
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:49 AM   #10431
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

j_U what are you smoking? How does Sage Mode match up to Ninja Nukes (Dust Element) in any way? I mean it's like you're trying to play Dust element like it's not an important factor. Let's remind ourselves that Onoki was capable of completely destroying the entire Island Turtle with Dust Element. And Muu is basically Onoki with weaker Dust Element and a whole other bag of tricks that compensate tenfold.

Not only that, you seem like you're downplaying the importance of lightspeed teleportation on Minato's end, as well as his ability to use S/T to warp any attack thrown at him elsewhere. Considering that Jiraiya and Naruto are collectively about as stealthy as the Macy's Day Parade, there's no reason that they'd even have a reasonable expectation to hit Minato.

I mean...what? What?
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Old 06-30-2012, 08:47 AM   #10432
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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Originally Posted by AOTKorby View Post
j_U what are you smoking? How does Sage Mode match up to Ninja Nukes (Dust Element) in any way? I mean it's like you're trying to play Dust element like it's not an important factor. Let's remind ourselves that Onoki was capable of completely destroying the entire Island Turtle with Dust Element. And Muu is basically Onoki with weaker Dust Element and a whole other bag of tricks that compensate tenfold.

Not only that, you seem like you're downplaying the importance of lightspeed teleportation on Minato's end, as well as his ability to use S/T to warp any attack thrown at him elsewhere. Considering that Jiraiya and Naruto are collectively about as stealthy as the Macy's Day Parade, there's no reason that they'd even have a reasonable expectation to hit Minato.

I mean...what? What?
Yeah the only thing seen that surpasses Dust Element was Ultimate Susanno.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:40 AM   #10433
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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Yeah the only thing seen that surpasses Dust Element was Ultimate Susanno.
And the uber rainbow rasengan thingy.... that's my prediction for Naruto's move/powerup to counter the perfect susanoo.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:13 PM   #10434
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
How about this four-way tag-team rumble:
Sarutobi(old)/Orochimaru vs. Minato/Kakashi(MS) vs. Jiraya/Naruto (Senjutsu and FRS, no Kurama mode) vs. Muu/Oonoki(young)
Kakashi sits to the side and reads a book while minato takes on everyone lol...

Oro would likely go after minato to try and gather secrets of his bloodline and his jutsu...
WHile saurtobi teamed up with Jman and naruto to beat Muu and Oonoki...

In the end, minato would wipe his ass with Oro while everyone, but Muu would likely all thats left after the clash between the five (jman escaped because he is not an idiot..)

W/e is left of Muu would not last long against Minato since dust element could be sent to another dimension with minato T/S barrier jutsu.... and although Muu is invisible, kakashi with the SG could track him for minato allowing for a FTG blow out... then another right after muu splits in two trying to escape...

Minato/kakashi win...

Or minato vs all....

everyone will knw minato is the biggest threat and go after him first... while kakashi runs and hides.. Minato throws out his kunai, but Muu and Oonoki use one dust element to destroy the kunai while the other attacks minato.. but minato FTG's to a seal outside the fight zone in konoha... everyone thinks minato is dead...

Sarutobi and naruto battle with Kage bushin battle while Oro and Jman fight...

Muu goes invisible moving into a position to ambush jman and Oro to take out both.. while Oonoki move into position to ambush naruto and saurtobi...

Muu and Oonoki make they're move and end up killing sarutobi and Oro, but Naruto in SM senses the attack coming and jumps high out of the attack while Jman has Ma and Pa frog see the attack coming for him then all three get out just in time...

However, while naruto is about to be killed by another dust element attack from above, Jman has Ma summon naruto out of the way which leaves him, ma and pa open for Muu to attack killing jman and sage frogs...
Naruto pissed goes 6tail mode kyuubi.... Oonki steps up to take out the kyuubi mode naruto, but out of nowhere Minato appears and hits Onooki with a rasegan from behind... while kakashi gets Muu from behind with a chidori...

Turns out kakashi was placing minato's seals under ground for him while moving around and tracking muu with his SG that can see chakra.. even Muus.... through a solid object like the top layer of the ground...
With those two taken out... Minato steps up to face 6tail naruto, transports his bijuu bomb to another dimension with his T/S barrier jutsu then places a seal on KN6, sealing the kyuubi's chakra back in naruto and strengthening the seal... naruto is out cold...

Kakashi/minato win....
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:37 PM   #10435
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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Originally Posted by AOTKorby View Post
Skilled as Hiruzen is, he's not going to fare well against any of the other teams. Both Minato/Kakashi and Jiraiya/Naruto have intense speed and power advantages, while Muu/Onoki can flat out One-Hit everything. Minato and Kakashi are the only ones with a prayer in hell of surviving Dust Element thanks to their space-time techniques, so it boils down to Muu/Onoki vs Minato/Kakashi. Onoki I can definitely see the team 7 tag team beating, but Muu would be virtually impossible for them to detect. Minato would be able to nullify his techs or even turn them against Muu, but only if he knew where Muu was or had already placed a hiraishin seal on him (unlikely). In the end I give it to Muu/Onoki.
Kakashi's SG could easily track Muu... While Minato could easily track Oonoki long enough to throw a kunai to catch up with him then place a seal which spells game over....

Kakashi/minato would take this due to minato's undetectable speed, kakashi and minato's ability to nullify any attack with T/S barrier jutsu's... and kakashi's ability to track Muu who is invisible... including his breaking into two people too...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:47 PM   #10436
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Kakashi's SG could easily track Muu... While Minato could easily track Oonoki long enough to throw a kunai to catch up with him then place a seal which spells game over....

Kakashi/minato would take this due to minato's undetectable speed, kakashi and minato's ability to nullify any attack with T/S barrier jutsu's... and kakashi's ability to track Muu who is invisible... including his breaking into two people too...
I mean it's been a while, but let's remember that Muu doesn't even give off chakra in his invisibility state (because he's also a stupidly skilled sensor ninja). Kakashi can't see chakra that isn't there.

http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-525/2/ seen here.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:51 PM   #10437
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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Originally Posted by AOTKorby View Post
I mean it's been a while, but let's remember that Muu doesn't even give off chakra in his invisibility state (because he's also a stupidly skilled sensor ninja). Kakashi can't see chakra that isn't there.

http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-525/2/ seen here.
But the tsuchikage would have to use chakra in order to use the invisibility ninjutsu itself.... and although sensors cannot sense chakra to the point its like he has no chakra at all... a doujutsu like the BG or SG would see any form chakra Muu would use... using the invisibility ninjutsu would register chakra to a BG or SG obviously...

Unless Muu doesn't use chakra, but something else...the SG or BG should see it..
IMO, I think the opinion about "man with no chakra" came from sensors not doujutsu users... Especially coming from the rock village where there are no doujutsu users... there is no evidence that Muu's chakra could not be seen by the BG or SG.

So kakashi's SG should be the only way to track Muu out of all the shinobi in the fight... unless minato tags Muu by placing them every where in order to catch Muu sneaking around... And since minato can sense anyone of seals easily then he should be able to sense when one moves because its attached itself to someone from landing on it...

Muu isn't that invisible when u consider the intelligence of both kakashi and minato along with the combination of abilities they have between them capable of tracking Muu...

I still say Minato/kakashi team takes the fight...

Also, just thinking that if minato can easily place reverse summoning seals... then getting some blood from anyone of the enemies by cutting with a kunai, stabbing or even taking some hair... and using the regular summoning jutsu to summon the enemy away from the battle field and directly into a rasengan is something minato should be capable..

Example: minato attacks Oro, but Oro hendges and hides... mInato takes some of Oro... FTG's off the battle field to one of his own weapon depots... creates a summoning contract for Oro then summons him... directly into a rasengan or kunai to a vital area... then summon himself back to the battle field and repeat...

It would be effective to just summon the enemy to an attack while on the battle field.. however, by summoning the enemy away from the battle field and his team mate/mates... u have cut off the enemy from any help from allies as well as landing an attack instantly at the same time so even if by some miracle the enemy survives... he is cut off from his allies forced to try and get back to the battle field by directly running there which would take some time which gives minato more of an advantage...

Judging by minato's intelligence... the use of the summoning jutsu to split up the shinobi for one on one fights would be the best strategy that could be employed.. IMO...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

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Old 07-02-2012, 05:59 PM   #10438
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

The manga says that Muu has no chakra signiture, therefore Kakashi cannot track him through his chakra. The only reason Muu was detected was because of Gaara's sensor sand. Why are you arguing it?
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:05 AM   #10439
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

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The manga says that Muu has no chakra signiture, therefore Kakashi cannot track him through his chakra. The only reason Muu was detected was because of Gaara's sensor sand. Why are you arguing it?
Yeah Gaara said he was they're, no Sharingan, or even Shino's bugs could detect Muu. He's moved more freely than anyone on the battlefield, between his invisibility, and double body jutsu shit. Additionally, that Dude never went 'all out' in a battle to the death match against anybody. He was like the Dude in the at tv commercial watching a fight scene throughout 3 tv sets in his house... he just got to join in the action occassionally before he got Ghost Whispered into the light.

Think it though Raichu has a 'chakra signal' his speed alone makes it impossible for a sharingan to keep up with. The sharingan ain't perfect, thats why Sasuke stayed held up inside of Imperfect Susanno, because sexy eyes or not, everything has its limitations.
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jericho Uzimaki (07-03-2012)
Old 07-03-2012, 12:12 PM   #10440
jericho Uzimaki
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Re: VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]

well

That was a thought out battle KYF, until you started speculating abilities.

But anyway, Dust element is fine BUT it is NOT as fast as Rasenshuriken or Giant rasengans that the two Sage Mode users can conjure.

Minato is a master of stealth and speed, Kakashi is a master of stealth(ex ANBU LEADER) I understand this but on an OPEN battle field that can only be used so much.

sage mode can sense chakra, Minato flashes in hits Naruto, doesn't have the same effect due to the durability of Sage Mode.
J-man utilizes "Sage arts: Toad stomach!" ,that will slow anyone that touches the ground down.

We must remember J-man taught Minato, he was first choice for 4th & 5th Hokage. It was NEVER STATED Minato surpassed J-man. It was stated Naruto surpassed J-man,Minato, & Kakashi.

Naruto has been up against many that are faster,stronger , & smarter than him. with a teammate that is a Legendary Sannin, that by way of evolution taught the people they are fighting, he would be victorious.

Now vs. Muu/Oonki(young)

Muu is the most dangerous, Oonki is NOT as powerful as we have seen recently. He is still under Muu.

Either way, Neither J-man or Naruto is so slow as to stand and wait for Dust element to be used. besides Rasenshuriken is remote control, faster and the size can be changed. It attacks on a cellular level, the wounds cannot be healed AND SG can't keep up with how many attacks it is actually doing against the body.

I think that it would be a Chakra battle in the end, who has enough to still be standing.

Naruto's most effect jutsu is and always will be SHADOW CLONE.

there are two outcomes to this fight

Minato wins or Naruto wins

Both or their partners would run out of chakra before the end.
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