gaarasandchick13

I don't know if I would(or can) call it wrong. People have their own opinions and feelings about their family members, and I won't go and tell them they're wrong and "bad people". I personally wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't shun others for doing so. The only thing I feel "icky" about is if they reproduce. Don't their children end up... oh never mind.
I had a crush on this guy, and I was flirting a bit, and then I found out he was my cousin. He didn't know either. Still a bit awkward around each other now. lol

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Babyface BK

If you didn't know someone was your cousin and felt attracted thats different. Thats like feeling attracted to a friends sibling. But your own family members that is plain wrong. I don't care if others say my arguement is solely based on the ick factor.

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Ninja48

What if homosexuality was a choice? Suddenly, no one should do it because a majority thinks that it's immoral? People should have the freedom to do what they want, regardless of how negatively society will look at them afterwards, and as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

You think incest is icky? Great. You think being gay is icky? Great. Just don't commit incest and don't be gay, and you're fine. Don't go around looking for incestuous and homosexual couples and tell them to stop what they're doing, only because you personally believe that it's wrong.

As for my own personal morality, I think incest is something that I would not do, only because I don't have a taste for it.

And your example of a hypothetical family being destroyed by incest is irrelevant, because it depends on the entire family's view of the issue at hand. They could be totally cool with it, and they might not be. Just because incest has a possibility of making things VERY awkward for a family doesn't mean it's universally wrong.

It could also be applied to other random things. Like maybe, a member of a family wants to marry outside their race, but half of the family holds an extreme hatred for said race. That oughta divide a family pretty well. But just because a family somewhere may incredibly oppose this, does it mean no one should be able to marry outside their race because of this?

And yeah. That's a better comparison than homosexuality. You see incest as ick. Others may see opposite races having sex as ick. Both persons commiting said acts have a choice as to whether or not they will commit themselves to their respective acts. I think you can agree that interracial marriage is not wrong. There is no other reason that someone else would think it's wrong other than their own personal views. It's the same with incest, so therefore incest shouldn't be forbidden.

HAHAHA.
And you just got him wrong. Well done.

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Miburo

So you're saying that there isn't a shit load of mothers and fathers that would disown their sons and daughters if they found out they were homosexuals? Come on, get real. While more are accepting of it now than in the past when it was more taboo, there's still plenty of instances in which families were 'broken up' because of homosexuality. I actually know a guy from highschool who's dad beat the shit out of him, made him move out, and wanted nothing to do with him after the dad found out he was gay.

Not that it matters at all, since it being uncomfortable for other people doesn't make it wrong no matter how you try and smear it. If I had a son and he was a ballerina I'd be pretty ashamed and uncomfortable with that too. Doesn't make it wrong though. (And yeah, it's obviously not the same thing. It's an analogy. If you're saying it's wrong because it makes people uncomfortable and ashamed, then anything that makes people uncomfortable and ashamed must logically also be wrong. Maybe not as wrong, but still wrong. That's the purpose of these analogies.)
This is just outright false. There is a greater chance of genetic diseases, but only because family members are more likely to share the same potentially dangerous recessive alleles. The only time it'd be a 100% chance is when they both share dominate alleles. For example, if both parents were hemophiliacs then the child will definitely have hemophilia. However, that scenario isn't anywhere close to being unique to just incestuous relationships.

Just like homosexuals can prevent themselves from having sex with same sexed people. Like I said, it's the same thing in that regard. And it's most certainly applicable, because it's an entirely accurate analogy.
It's only cheap because for you to condemn incest you've got to condemn homosexuality. That's what makes it a damn good analogy. Pretty much any argument you can apply against incest can be applied to homosexuality, including the 'it can potentially ruin families' one.
Sure. My stance is there isn't anything wrong with it, because there isn't a single argument that can be presented that makes it morally wrong. And I'm not so much of a dick as to condemn what people do solely because I personally don't like it. What consenting couples do sexually isn't anyone's business and doesn't hurt anyone, and there's absolutely no justifiable reason to look down on these people. It just isn't right to tell people that what they're doing is wrong when you can't back that up with a legitimate argument.

As for the last question, just because I can, what can someone get out of a homosexual relationship that they can't get out of a normal heterosexual one? XD Thing is, that doesn't matter. People should be able to choose to be with whoever they want unless there is a damn good reason as to why they shouldn't. And in this case, along with other sexual taboos like homosexuality and polygamy, there just isn't any damn good reasons to be against it.

Haha, no. I'm just being logical about it instead of going by my personal feelings on the subject. Perhaps you should do the same. Saying what a group of people do is immoral just because you personally don't like it is wrong, plain and simple. I don't like pickles. If I said everyone who likes pickles are horrible people I'd probably be called an idiot. Thing is, that's exactly what you guys are doing now. You shouldn't look at things and make judgments based on your own personal dislikes; rather, you should aim to find whats most reasonable and fair.
That's all I'm doing, no hidden agendas here. Though, if I had a hot cousin who was totally into me and shit...; )

Lumineon

I'm not saying that there aren't parents who would disown their children for coming out, but I'm saying that it's probably a lot easier to accept that your child is gay than your child is sleeping with his or her flesh and blood. That's just some Jerry Springer bo'shit right there. And I do think that incest is more destructive to a family because obviously there is more than one family member involved in an incestuous relationship. With time I do believe some parents could become accepting of their gay child. With time I don't believe any parent would ever be able to accept that his or her children are doing it with eachother or a member of the family.


I'm not saying that one should conform to what society says is right or wrong, but there's a reason incest is still such taboo today. We've existed as a civilization for quite some time. Many social inequalities have become obsolete or have at least been mitigated to a degree that one can live rather comfortably without being subject to hate crimes, etc. We've overcome women's suffrage, slavery, racism to a very large extent, and even homosexuality to some degree. But incest is something that the majority of people will never be able to accept/agree with. Personally, I would accept someone who was in an incestuous relationship even though I think it's incredibly wrong. I wouldn't agree with what they're doing or say it's okay, but I wouldn't tell them to change their ways. There's a big difference between acceptance and agreement. If you notice, I never said that incestuous couples should be prosecuted or condemned, but I am not in agreement with what they're doing. There are too many risks involved, many of which I've spoken about.

Not really. I don't agree with incest, yet I think homosexuality is perfectly fine. I don't think you can tell yourself what to be attracted to, meaning I don't think you can tell yourself to be straight or gay. I do think you can control who you're attracted to, and if not, you can certainly prevent yourself from having sex with that person. Homosexuality differs from incest because it deals with the sex you're attracted to, not the person. I believe incest is wrong because you're screwing a damn family member. It isn't even about what you're in to, it's who you're in to.

The funny thing is, this is such a taboo topic that you can't even give veritable instances of incest gone right. (Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions here. By all means share your anecdotes.) You said you had a friend who was disowned because he was gay. Have you ever known anyone who led a successful incestuous relationship? You're saying that you see nothing wrong with it because there is "nothing that makes it morally wrong," but there's nothing that makes it morally acceptable either. What's more, you can't even provide detail as to why someone would wish to have sex with their sibling, parent, or cousin. The love that we have for our family should never be confused with the love we have for a companion.

True, I can't tell people that what they're doing is wrong if I don't know what's going on in their families and personal lives. If your family is okay with it and your friends accept the fact that you bang your sister/cousin, go for it. But if any of the points I mentioned in my bulleted list become a reality, then I think I have very good reason to be against it.

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this heart that beats,
it beats for whom?

Tay_Zonday

Miburo is using the " if it aint broken don't fix it" logic. If there is no reason to condem it, why do so? You however are saying something along the lines of "If it is there to fix, why shouldn't I fix it?" Which is silly.

and there us a moral reason to accept it. Two people love eachother.

Ninja48

As for your bulleted list:
The bold statements are all the same when it comes down to their basics. All of them = "causes distress to the others because those others find incest immoral," and even then, it's very dependent on the first statement, which is the immorality of incest.

Using that logic, it's wrong for interracial couples to have sex because it's "immoral" (which is subjective, just like incest), and it would cause distress to a family that finds interracial sex terribly immoral. See what I'm saying here?

Incest can be considered as immoral as interracial sex, depending on the person who is judging the morality. The only reason either can be immoral is that it can be judged as "icky." That's it. Just because others find it "icky," doesn't mean they shouldn't do what they want to do.

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Assaulter

On top of what you said Ninja. The last statement that you have marked as bold is not completed by him. The disturbed part would come first yes, but any parent that is truly a parent would really put a hell of a lot of the blame on themselves being how in truth the only reason it probably happened is because they were smothering their child. By this I mean they were making every decision for them and never let them go on their own to do anything. There is nothing immoral about it, but I suggest you don't debate morales being how you can not prove them and they are non debatable, they are arguable not debatable.

Also Ninja its really not that it is immoral its more so that its unnatural. Unnatural things tend to cause great discomfort and can be took to extremes that they don't belong. Incest and Interracial relationships are great examples of such. But your right the logic of, just because others think its "icky" you shouldn't do it is fundamentally flawed and holds no stable ground.

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Lumineon

Wrong. If I were using the "if it's there to fix, why shouldn't I fix it," I would be saying that we should send all persons guilty of incest to jail. As it is now, I'm stating that I feel incest is immoral and wrong under all circumstances.

You can find love in other people. Many go through life having loved (romantically) many others. You can't say that your family member is your "one and only."

Lol, I'm not denying that interracial marriages can cause intense emotional strain on certain families. In fact, I'd agree with you that they probably do in certain cases. But I stand behind what I said: that incest is destructive to families. You bang your sister and bam, the whole family is left in shambles. You can't look at her the same ever again and vice-versa. And say you move on in life and find a wife. What are you going to tell your new wife? What are you going to tell your child when he gets older? "Oh hey, Johnny, I think you should know that I dated Auntie Anne when I was 20 and we had sex." It's just way too unnatural and the moment you engage in incestuous activity, everything will change forever.

Now, you can argue against that instance, saying it's not relevant, but then what is relevant here? I'm providing cases in which I think incest would be destructive to a family. If you want to make me believe that incest is okay, then why don't you give me an instance in which an incestuous relationship would do good for a family?

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this heart that beats,
it beats for whom?

taelmx

If you are adopted, it wouldn't be considered incest...=D

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10% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Maisauce

the choice of what and what isn't moral is kept to someone's point of view. what i might find sexy won't always appeal to the rest of the female population. i guess this whole argument is just on what view you're looking from.

i think incest is wrong. what lum stated is right. it DOES breaks up families. it WILL create a whole mess of problems that all could've been avoided easily. the parents WILL blame themselves, and that's just the least of it. having sex with your brother / sister / grandma / nephew / goldfish is totally absurd and if i were the mother, i'd go batshit and eventually slit my own throat.

before you throw that "o u muzt b a homoph0b 2 if u h8 incezt" shit at me, think about it. lum already said so himself.. homosexuality's come a VERY long way. gay pride, gay parades, gay petitions to have gay marriages legal, not to mention all the media hype/fad about h0tt em0 gay boys kissing etc etc.

like i said.. this is all your choice to look at. now, i think if this entire thread was about pedophilia, none of you would defend the fact that pedophilia could and will be "acceptable," why? because every moral and thought is set onto a different level.

for example.. i think being gay is fine. i think marrying outside your race is fine, as well. i think chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla. i think scat fetishes are disgusting. i think abasiophilia is disturbing. i thought the transformers movie was actually good. i think mufasa is secretly still alive.

you can disagree with me. you're free to voice what you do and what you don't like, but to try to force your opinion onto someone and try to get them to accept it is just as immoral as committing sexual relations with my dog.

/thread.

[p.s i didn't read most of the shits (cept lumineon's). as epic as your arguments are, my point on incest will and forever be unaccepted. g'day y'all~!]

Miburo

Again, that's all subjective. Sure it might make social gatherings and shit for some families a bit uncomfortable, but for other families they might realize that it doesn't hurt anyone and just accept it. You can't say one way or another that it's definitely going to be destructive or not.

Not only that, but the entire reason it would even upset people in the first place is because of the now obsolete taboo-ness of the whole thing. If the completely irrational taboo about it didn't exist in the first place, it would be a lot more acceptable. And the only reasons it existed in the first place are now all obsolete in our modern society. Again, it's all boiling down to the ick factor. Which isn't a justifiable reason to say it's wrong.
That's exactly what you're saying. Just because we've gotten more accepting of certain taboo things doesn't mean that all current taboo things are justified. You could have used that same exact argument against homosexuality 15 years ago. That doesn't make homosexuality any more morally wrong back then than it is now. What people think means absolutely jack shit if there isn't a justifiable reason to think that way, you can't use it as a valid argument at all.

And you'll notice that I was careful in my wording as well, and never implied that you'd actually seek punishment for those who are involved with incestuous relationships. However, you have stated that what they do is wrong, and that is an illogical belief on your part. If you don't like it, then don't do it. Don't say it's wrong if you can't back that up with a legitimate reason. Which would be one that can't be applied to any former taboo that is now mostly acceptable.
That's exactly my point. If you're okay with one, then you should logically be okay with the other. Any argument against incest can be applied towards homosexuality as well, minus the unwanted pregnancy thing (Which is an irrelevant point when you take the effectivenss of birth control + abortion into consideration. Not to mention the fact that many normal couples are capable of having the same problem of high risk of genetic diseases, yet aren't looked down on for it). Your disapproval of incest contradicts your belief that homosexuality is fine, logically speaking.
No. You don't choose who you're attracted to anymore than you choose what you're attracted to. I can't look at a girl who I find unattractive and suddenly make myself attracted to her, and vice versa. Just like a homosexual can't choose to be attracted to girls. In both cases, it's not possible to pick and choose. They're both the same damn thing in this regard.

Not that it should even matter, as 48 pointed out earlier. If homosexuality was found out to be a choice, would that suddenly make it immoral in your eyes? I'd sure as hell hope not.
Who knows? With the social taboo on it, I'm sure it's not something most people go around talking about. Thing is, that doesn't matter in the least. Like Tay kinda said, the whole point is that there's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't have to serve any other beneficial purpose other than it being what makes certain people happy. It doesn't matter "why" if there isn't a single good reason for a "why not."

And again, I could say what beneficial outcomes are there to homosexual relationships? Oh shit. There isn't any, and if there is I'd bet anything that they could be applied to an incestuous relationship as well. The reason we accept homosexuals isn't because they serve some beneficial purpose, it's because most intelligent people figured out that there isn't any justifiable reason to be against it.

You'd be in the wrong then. Unless you're willing to say that interracial and homosexual relationships are wrong if family members disapprove and it breaks up a family. Whether or not someone's family disapproves or not doesn't effect the morality of their actions. I don't think you're a dumb person, you have to be seeing this. If you're against incest, then that's fine. Don't bang family members. You can't say that it's actually wrong though without being illogical and hypocritical to your other beliefs. Just say that it's not your cup of tea, but there's nothing wrong with other people doing it if that's what makes them happy.

Assaulter

You do know that the result of how a child turns out, relationship wise, is all on the parents right? You can't just automatically assume that it DOES and WILL break up a family. If it does that means the family was unstable in the start and that it really wasn't anything bad it just came at the wrong time. Families DEAL with issues. I'm saying real families too not that kind where you have the dad that doesn't care for his kids and the mom that crys pretty much every night because how her life is doing. That isn't a family. The only reason people think incest is wrong because of how unnatural it is. Why the hell can't a brother truly fall in love with their sister or mother or so on. Just because another says its wrong doesn't mean its immoral.

Bad thing to mention homosexuality and support it. Being how in truth it is the same ballpark of unnatural. People don't look at you the same and so on. The only reason incest isn't the same as homosexuality would be the fact that no one fights for it. Also incest is not nearly as common as homosexuality. Incest is most always the result of a bad family relationship with mothers, brothers, or what have you.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE has been forcing anything on another. Also who are you to say who others can love. The only real thing that is wrong with incest is what comes from it. It is proven unhealthy and that is the only fault.

Also when it comes to that let me ask you a question. If I introduced you to 2 people that were a couple that had different hair color, eye color and so forth would you automatically know that they were an incest couple? No you wouldn't because you don't truly know them. Saying you hate couple such as that is like taking a stick and swinging at every couple you see because 9 times out of 10 you can not and will not tell.

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Ninja48

That was not my point. My point was that if incest is wrong because it causes the family stress, then interracial sex is wrong because it also causes the family stress. And why does it cause them stress? Because they see it as immoral, for both interracial sex and incest. If "incest is wrong under all circumstances," then interracial couples are wrong, too.

Haha. Okay. What if the entire family had no problem with fucking each other? That'd actually be wondrous for them. "Something the whole family can enjoy."

It only does bad for a family if once side of the family is against the morality of it, while another is for the morality of it. Similar to, again, interracial sex. Hell, anything can tear a family apart. Maybe one side of a family wants an HDTV, but the other side of the family believes HD is the devil. Is HD wrong? One side of the family might be atheist, while the other is devoultly religious. Is atheism wrong?

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Maisauce

tl;dr pretty much skimmed your post because well, i'm an ignorant bitch and i think i've made it pretty clear that i think incest is wrong.

i'm one of those people who believe that love has no boundaries. whether your skin is different or if your genders are the same, whatever, that's fine. but when it comes down to your brother or sister.. what? you came out of the same vagina, same sperm, geez, as if that wasn't sick enough? are you trying to tell me that if i slept with my brother, it wouldn't be sick? or that it wouldn't infest itself in my mom's mind? i hope you're fucking joking.

your "argument" about "families" being "normal" has absolutely nothing to do with it. EVERY family will crumble. i think i'd be more worried about the family if it didn't.

let's see.. i'll try to apply myself to what you've said. well my family's pretty stable. good jobs, healthy relationships, not too many disagreements. LOL O HAY SURPRISE MOM, I SLEPT WITH KIM (older sister)!!1! are you telling me that it wouldn't affect my family? are you saying that.. my family has to be unstable in order for them to have a negative reaction towards incest? i'm not one to insult, but you sir, are an ignoramus. get REAL for a second and leave your "sailor moon love will last 4eva" theories where they ought to be.

also, are you trying to say i can't support homosexuality and incest at the same time? this is where my "don't force things" onto others steps in. who are you to tell me what and what not to support? seriously.

lum stated that you can't change who or what it is you're attracted to, but you certainly can choose WHO you fall in love with. i'm pretty sure it deals a pretty big blow on the peoples' minds who've thought of committing incest. i'd be pretty sickened with myself if i even glanced at my family in a different way than i do now. family relations are complex. they're who you turn to when your boyfriend breaks up with you, or when you get fired at work. you don't mix sexual relations into that. that's like trying to mix lotion into ice cream, it just won't work.

correct me if i've misinterpreted anything you've said. i've already stated above that i didn't read it wholly.