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Old 08-01-2007, 02:37 PM   #16
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

lol this aint even a question. oro even stated himself itachi was stonger than him, tahts why he gave up on trying to catch him and went after a weaker sharingan sasuke instead. close thread... lol jk just trying to sound important.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:39 PM   #17
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Originally Posted by cyc View Post
lol this aint even a question. oro even stated himself itachi was stonger than him, tahts why he gave up on trying to catch him and went after a weaker sharingan sasuke instead. close thread... lol jk just trying to sound important.
Did he really? Do you happen to remember which chapter? I don't actually remember him saying that but there have been a lot of chapters so who knows?
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"写輪眼の本当の力が…このうちはマダラの力が」

Sharingan will regain its true power... as will I, Uchiha Madara*!

As for whether or not the character speaking is Uchiha Madara, as to this, there is no doubt. This part, このうちはマダラの力, has been construed by some to mean "this power, the power of Uchiha Madara." They're reading it like this: この うちはマダラの力。The way they should be reading it is like this: このうちはマダラの 力。When この precedes the name of a person (in this case, Uchiha Madara), the person referenced is the speaker himself. It's a way for the speaker to indicate that he or she is a real big deal (in his or her mind, anyway). And no, it's not a "vague" sentence, or one which could be read both ways: the way we're indicating here is the only way to interpret the sentence, at least as far as whether the speaker is Uchiha Madara or not. Whether Madara is possessing someone else's body or if Tobi's just a robot through which his voice comes out,is another matter altogether."
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:07 PM   #18
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

I would say Itachi's chakra level is not near Oro's . As strong as kisame is, Itachi knew that kisame would take damage. it is not the sharingan, but the nature of its power. But if oro was to go all out to kill itachi, i think he could.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:45 PM   #19
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Okay before you chew me out, I like to bring something up. I heard a few people mention that the only reason why Sasuke beat Orochimaru, was because he was in his weakened state. But if Orochimaru was in his top form, would it had made much a difference? I know you guys probably don't understand what I'm saying, but on all accords, Itachi has never laid a finger on Orochimaru, yet Itachi is given so much credit for taking him down, when he merely used his sharingan. Suppose Orochimaru is the better shinobi, he is one of the great Sannin, but Sasuke stated that him wanting the Uchiha power made him ridiculous or something.

Perhaps Sasuke was right, if Orochimaru was not so obsessed with the Uchiha's power, he could have been better off and would not have been defeated by Itachi. If Itachi and Orochimaru squared off without Orochimaru attempting to steal Itachi's body, do you think the outcome could have been a little different? Orochimaru tried to take over Itachi's body, but his sharingan's genjutsu was stronger than Orochimaru's, so if he just went out, with the intent to kill, don't you think the battle would have been longer and more thought out on Orochimaru's part? Than we have Sasuke telling Karin that Orochimaru was in a weakened state when fighting him.

http://www.islandne.com/online/?g2_itemId=12644

If Sasuke's anywhere near Itachi's level, that could mean a numerous of things. Perhaps if Orochimaru was not so obsessed, he might not of underestimated either Itachi and Sasuke's sharingan, and believed that their bloodline traits was the only source of achieving great power in the end, he could have learned to avoid the Sharingan's genjutsu and fight with them on a better level. We've seen Deidara break down Sasuke's sharingan's genjutsu, perhaps Orochimaru, with his skill in genjutsu, could have had a better chance against Itachi...
Nice post. However, in top shape or not, Orochimaru would have lost either way. He has a huge weakness to the Sharingan. It was clearly shown against Itachi and Sasuke. If Orochimaru fought Itachi or Sasuke with intent to kill, and was able to pull off high level jutsus, it's because they'd allow him to. Don't get me wrong here, I know he's a Sannin and a genius, and I do actually respect his abilities. But let's face it. He's weak against the Sharingan. If he were to pull off anything against either Sasuke or Itachi, it'd be because they allowed it. Otherwise, they'd just use their bloodline limits and that's it. The only way I can see Orochimaru winning against either Sasuke or Itachi, is if they allow him to summon some strong ninjas in order to wear them down. But, that's assuming they'd let him, which they probably wouldn't since they know he's a Sannin. Not even Manda would be helpful. If Sasuke can use and keep Manda in a genjutsu, I'm positive Itachi can do the same.

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I'm pretty sure that full strength Oro would not fall to sharingan so easily
What makes you think he wasn't at full strength when Itachi owned Orochimaru with his Sharingan?

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if someone like Gai knows ways to fight against the sharingan, I'm sure Oro does too.
Maybe. But I doubt it. Also, Gai's method of fighting the Sharingan involves taijutsu, something that Orochimaru was never known for being strong at. Orochimaru never had a way of fending off the Sharingan. If he did, he'd have done so against both Sasuke and Itachi. And he didn't. He has no defense for it.

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Old 08-01-2007, 06:05 PM   #20
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

even Gai couldn't stand in front of MS or Madara Sharingan,Gai only can handle regular sharingan!
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:07 PM   #21
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

First post
I think the only way for Oro to beat Itachi would be if he did'nt us the sharingan at all. Then yeah Oro would beat him for sure, but why would Itachi not use it. I too respect Oro's power and abilities, but I just don't think there is no way for him to beat Itachi because he has the sharingan. I do however agree that if Oro had an intent to kill Itachi then yeah he could have put up a better fight. Only a better fight not a victory over Itachi.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:12 PM   #22
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

He'd put up a better fight if they allowed it. If they want, they can just activate Sharingan and catch Orochimaru right there and then. He has no defense against it. Him being able to pull off jutsus and what not against'em = them allowing him to do so. Which would be a gamble. And they're geniuses, so I doubt that would happen.

Guys, just face it. Strong genius level Sharingan >>>>>>>> anything a fully healthy/weakened Orochimaru can do.

HE HAS NO WAY TO DEFEND AGAINST IT.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:19 PM   #23
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

When you think back to some of the comments that have been made about using MS it seems more likely that if Oro was going all out with the ONLY goal to kill Itachi then he could do it.

Remember that using MS takes a toll on the user. I don't know how many times Itachi can use it before he is too exhausted to continue. But, I know that Oro is great a summoning dead things to fight for him. Also, If he summond Manda ( I know he is dead now ) and Itachi used MS on him he would be vulnerable to attack from whoever else Oro may have sent against Itachi. I could easily see Oro putting Itachi in multiple situations where he would need to use MS to escape and Oro just waiting until he can no longer use it then attacking.

Sorry if that kinda rambles.
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"写輪眼の本当の力が…このうちはマダラの力が」

Sharingan will regain its true power... as will I, Uchiha Madara*!

As for whether or not the character speaking is Uchiha Madara, as to this, there is no doubt. This part, このうちはマダラの力, has been construed by some to mean "this power, the power of Uchiha Madara." They're reading it like this: この うちはマダラの力。The way they should be reading it is like this: このうちはマダラの 力。When この precedes the name of a person (in this case, Uchiha Madara), the person referenced is the speaker himself. It's a way for the speaker to indicate that he or she is a real big deal (in his or her mind, anyway). And no, it's not a "vague" sentence, or one which could be read both ways: the way we're indicating here is the only way to interpret the sentence, at least as far as whether the speaker is Uchiha Madara or not. Whether Madara is possessing someone else's body or if Tobi's just a robot through which his voice comes out,is another matter altogether."
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:33 PM   #24
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

I remember Itachi used it maybe three times. Once against Kakashi, another against Sasuke, and another to get out of Jiraiya's frog jutsu. By now, he should probably be able to use it more often. I'd hate to think he's made no progress in using MS. So, yeah. Orochimaru is weak against the regular Sharingan. Can you imagine how fast he'd go down against MS? Also, Sasuke didn't use any MS genjutsu on Manda. It was regular genjutsu. Using MS on Manda would probably cripple the widdle snake.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:01 PM   #25
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Originally Posted by MikeyM1979 View Post
I remember Itachi used it maybe three times. Once against Kakashi, another against Sasuke, and another to get out of Jiraiya's frog jutsu. By now, he should probably be able to use it more often. I'd hate to think he's made no progress in using MS. So, yeah. Orochimaru is weak against the regular Sharingan. Can you imagine how fast he'd go down against MS? Also, Sasuke didn't use any MS genjutsu on Manda. It was regular genjutsu. Using MS on Manda would probably cripple the widdle snake.
True it was only regular Sharingan. But I still think that the theory holds up. Even if Itachi could use MS 5 or 6 times in a row before he was all tapped out, I think that Oro would take that into account and send 8 or so creatures/deadpeople/followers like Kabuto against him. After that, barring any unseen jutsu's from Itachi, oro would kill him. And remember that there is no reason to think that Oro would send them one at a time and that while Itachi is using MS he can't move ( or at least hasn't been able to so far).
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"写輪眼の本当の力が…このうちはマダラの力が」

Sharingan will regain its true power... as will I, Uchiha Madara*!

As for whether or not the character speaking is Uchiha Madara, as to this, there is no doubt. This part, このうちはマダラの力, has been construed by some to mean "this power, the power of Uchiha Madara." They're reading it like this: この うちはマダラの力。The way they should be reading it is like this: このうちはマダラの 力。When この precedes the name of a person (in this case, Uchiha Madara), the person referenced is the speaker himself. It's a way for the speaker to indicate that he or she is a real big deal (in his or her mind, anyway). And no, it's not a "vague" sentence, or one which could be read both ways: the way we're indicating here is the only way to interpret the sentence, at least as far as whether the speaker is Uchiha Madara or not. Whether Madara is possessing someone else's body or if Tobi's just a robot through which his voice comes out,is another matter altogether."

Last edited by Anythingavailable; 08-01-2007 at 07:02 PM. Reason: said MS instead of sharingan
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:59 PM   #26
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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True it was only regular Sharingan. But I still think that the theory holds up. Even if Itachi could use MS 5 or 6 times in a row before he was all tapped out, I think that Oro would take that into account and send 8 or so creatures/deadpeople/followers like Kabuto against him. After that, barring any unseen jutsu's from Itachi, oro would kill him. And remember that there is no reason to think that Oro would send them one at a time and that while Itachi is using MS he can't move ( or at least hasn't been able to so far).
I disagree with statement for two reasons. First, Itachi has abnormal hand seal abilities, so I don't think Orochimaru would get that precious time to perform a jutsu like that. And secondly, imo, all it'll take is a MS jutsu used one time (whether it be Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu) on Orochimaru, and then lights out.
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:40 PM   #27
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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I disagree with statement for two reasons. First, Itachi has abnormal hand seal abilities, so I don't think Orochimaru would get that precious time to perform a jutsu like that. And secondly, imo, all it'll take is a MS jutsu used one time (whether it be Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu) on Orochimaru, and then lights out.
It's funny because Itachi wouldn't even need MS to beat Orochimaru. All he needs to do is paralyze him and have his way with him.

Yes, Orochimaru can summon the dead, if Itachi or Sasuke allow him to. But they both know he's a Sannin. They knew not to toy with him, even though with one gaze, it's over for him.
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Old 08-02-2007, 01:48 AM   #28
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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even Gai couldn't stand in front of MS or Madara Sharingan,Gai only can handle regular sharingan!
And how do you know this exactly?


I know. It's because sharingan is so cool I'm wetting my underwear right about now.
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Old 08-02-2007, 01:59 AM   #29
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

I'm sure Orochumaru is a better Shinobi. Itachi stated that even he could not defeat Jiraiya nad if he did, he would die as well. Itachi and Kisame retreated from Jiraiya. Jiraiya and Orochumaru are both Sannin and Orochumaru was a natural genius that Saruto really wanted to become the next Hokage. Orochumaru has spent his life learning jutsu because he feels that that is what makes a true shinobi, one who can master all jutsu. This is the reason that he became a snake and wants to have Sasuke's body. Orochumaru is older and surely wiser than Itachi. Itachi is a stronger shinobi due to his Mangekyo sharingan but Orochumaru is probably the better shinobi due to all of the jutsu, even those forbidden, that he has spent his entire life learning, his wisdom, his teacher, his experience.
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:23 AM   #30
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

oro has a chance of winning over itachi if he doesn't have mks.
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