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Old 08-03-2007, 12:08 AM   #46
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

I believe Orochimaru is a much better ninja when it comes to field of ninjutsu. Oro has a wide variety of ninjutsu, most that are extremely powerful, and those are mostly forbidden. I don't believe Itachi has that type of depth when it comes to ninjutsu, yes he may have one or 2 good ninjutsu moves, but they don't top Oro's. Well to be honest, we've only seen katon jutsus from Itachi and I'm not sure if Itachi has a much wider variety of ninjutsu. It is mainly in genjutsu that Oro gets raped in vs Itachi, and that genjutsu puts Itachi over the top in the overall status

When it comes to taijutsu we have no clue seeing that we haven't seen Oro in a good taijutsu match, nor Itachi.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:19 AM   #47
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Originally Posted by MikeyM1979 View Post
I think you're mixed up a bit. I never once mentioned anything about Sasuke being caught in, or escaping from Itachi's genjutsu. I think there are people on Itachi's level, who can successfully fight against his Sharingan and other abilities. People like Gai, Jiraiya, some obvious folk from Akatsuki...etc. Orochimaru isn't one of them. Just because he has the title of Sannin doesn't mean he's above and beyond everyone and everything.
Forget about Sanin,the way you make it sound is as if oro is just a fake and that he is hiding behind a title that doesnt make him strong and if you say gai is stronger than him your the one mixed up.

Sincerely garra.

Ps:you give oro a little to less credit.
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Last edited by garra.; 08-03-2007 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:30 AM   #48
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Originally Posted by garra. View Post
Forget about Sanin,the way you make it sound is as if oro is just a fake and that he is hiding behind a title that doesnt make him strong and if you say gai is stronger than him your the one mixed up.

Sincerely garra.

Ps:you give oro a little to less credit.
Weather you like it or not itachi is a better and stronger ninja damn why is a thread like this even open you can argue all you want itachi is still better and stronger.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:44 AM   #49
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

agreed to vizard killer
itachi is defn stronger than orochimaru.
no point arguing....
even oro said it himself.
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:35 AM   #50
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

LOL you just completly ignored what I said you made it seem oro sucks is this not true?
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:24 AM   #51
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

sorry man, all i see are a bunch of "ifs" ..... either way i dont see what your saying

if your saying "if orochimaru wasn't so obsessed with the sharingan he would win" or "if orochimaru hadn't tried to take over itachi's body he'd be better"

then i still say your wrong, no matter what i can confidently say:

Itachi would win thanks to his mangekyou genjutsu, ninjutsu, dojutsu's. Even if Orochimaru wouldn't willingly look into his eyes, he could do it with his fingers or something else like he's stated before

and unsurely say:

Itachi is not a one trick horse, he has Taijutsu to back it up
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:58 AM   #52
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Originally Posted by satansilent View Post
if you want to argue show me something or tell something to defeat me

I don't want to argue, I want proof. You're the one making claims here, you're the one who needs to back them up with proof instead of theories.
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Old 08-03-2007, 05:13 AM   #53
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

Oh my god, are you people for real. There's no proof one way or the other! You can't conclude which is stronger! It would seem Itachi is the strongest, but it's not for sure as Orochimaru didn't have intent to kill. They're definately on the same level though, I think that can safely be assumed.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:41 AM   #54
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Originally Posted by Kakkakuzu View Post
I don't want to argue, I want proof. You're the one making claims here, you're the one who needs to back them up with proof instead of theories.
go and read my last post,I explain everything,there isn't anything from myself and it's not theory,all is from episode(manga&anime).
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:58 AM   #55
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

if Jiriaya could face Itachi, why not Orochimaru? I did not suggest that Orochimaru would beat Itachi, I'm just saying that he could have at least stood some chance against him. Orochimaru would seem like the more, I don't know, more experienced shinobi. I'm saying, an all out dual, not Orochimaru trying to take over the body. If he wanted something, he would try to take it, not destroy it. Orochimaru came at Itachi with the intent of taking over his body. Unfortunately, his jutsu was way surpassed by the sharingan. Orochimaru knew that he could not handle taking over his body because it required more skill to restrain Itachi's sharingan than to defeat him (which most likely would not happen anyway).

I really doubt that ALL of Orochimaru's jutsu would fall prey to Itachi's eyes, I mean that would render anyone and any other ninja useless in a battle, that would make Sasuke and Itachi invincible. I think Sasuke and Itachi bluffed and knowing they had the upper hand, they could add insult to injury on the personal level as well. The ritual jutsu is something that absolutely can't work because its a combination of will, genjutsu, and it involves something cursed, while the sharingan's power is cursed and follows a strong bloodline.
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:16 AM   #56
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

I think that if Itachi could, he would have killed Orochimaru when he was challenged. That's just speculation of course, but at least he is not way past Orochimaru in skill as some people here suggest.

Orochimaru was a genius, and trained under the third Hokage. He's a part of Densetsu no Sannin, the legendary three, that are highly respected by EVERY Shinobi. This is a fact. He even fought the two other Sannin's (yeah Jiraiya was drugged) WITHOUT arms, no jutsu's. Even then he wasn't trying to kill them, just Naruto. Even so he ended up lethally wounding Tsunade, that was trying to protect Naruto.

Conclusion: unless Itachi is a God, they are on the same level. End of story.

Last edited by trondah; 08-03-2007 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:53 AM   #57
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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trondah:I think that if Itachi could, he would have killed Orochimaru when he was challenged. That's just speculation of course, but at least he is not way past Orochimaru in skill as some people here suggest.
Itachi rip one hand of orochimaru if he want he can do it with othere hand,then we have a genius without any judsu
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:11 AM   #58
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Originally Posted by satansilent View Post
go and read my last post,I explain everything,there isn't anything from myself and it's not theory,all is from episode(manga&anime).
I read your last post. I read it many times because I had trouble understanding what exactly you were trying to say.

It's not from any anime episode or manga chapter that proves Gai can't handle MS. He hasn't faced it, there's no way for you to know he can't. It's just your assumption. That's my point.

Just like everyone here assumes that Oro would easily lose to Itachi in a life and death battle, based on Itachi dominating Oro when Oro tried to take his body. That at least has some basis for the assumption (or a foundation even), but your assumption is based on nothing at all, except on how awesome the MS is.


I could even say that it's possible for Konohamaru to beat Itachi, and there's no way you could say that it's not possible and be right at the same time.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:20 AM   #59
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

Now look here remember when kabuto was talking to orochimaru after his arms were taken by sarutobi this is what kabuto says"it would have gone much smoother if itachi joined us then orochimaru said"but that's an impossible dream now he is stronger than ME. There you go you guys sound more stupid because proof was actually given in the manga and you are still debating on this itachi is more skilled than orochimaru cause i doubt oro came even close to being an anbu SQUAD leader at 13 itachi is the greatest genius in the series so far end of discusion you want proof read this post again.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:22 AM   #60
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Re: Orochimaru, better (not stronger) shinobi than Itachi?

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Originally Posted by trondah View Post
Oh my god, are you people for real. There's no proof one way or the other! You can't conclude which is stronger! It would seem Itachi is the strongest, but it's not for sure as Orochimaru didn't have intent to kill. They're definately on the same level though, I think that can safely be assumed.
There's no reason to think they're on the same playing field. As far as I see it, the Sharingan/MS >>>>>> than anything Orochimaru can pull off. It's really as simple as that. If they were on any sort of similar level, then Orochimaru could have easily countered whatever the Sharingan could do. And twice, Orochimaru couldn' do jack. It doesn't matter that he had no intent to kill, he still would have gone down. That's how powerful the Sharingan is, and that's how weak Orochimaru is against it's powers.

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Originally Posted by The Special One View Post
if Jiriaya could face Itachi, why not Orochimaru?
Because Jiraiya must obviously have some way of fighting against it? I know that's just speculation, but it does make a little sense. Orochimaru has no defense against Sharingan, yet Itachi was quick to us it on Orochimaru and toss him aside like garbage. Meane while, Itachi could have done the same to Jiraiya, yet he didn't. Maybe he knows that Jiraiya has some way of fighting Sharingan? Hell, Gai has a way. And before anyone says, "Oh well if Gai can, then so can Orochimaru..." Obviously Orochimaru can't, since it's been seen twice that he has a huge weakness against the Sharingan.

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Originally Posted by The Special One View Post
I did not suggest that Orochimaru would beat Itachi, I'm just saying that he could have at least stood some chance against him.
As I've said already, the only way Orochimaru could pull off anything other than being frozen, is if Itachi allowed it. At any point, Itachi can end a fight against someone like Orochimaru.

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Orochimaru would seem like the more, I don't know, more experienced shinobi. I'm saying, an all out dual, not Orochimaru trying to take over the body.
The outcome would still be the same. Especially if it's an all out dual. Itachi doesn't seem like the kind of person to play with his enemies, so the only way Orochimaru can stand any chance of beating Itachi, is if Itachi doesn' use his Sharingan at all during the fight. And we all know that's not gonna happen. What's Orochimaru gonna do? Say this: "Fight me like a man! Stop using Sharingan, you cheater." lol Seriously.

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Originally Posted by The Special One View Post
If he wanted something, he would try to take it, not destroy it. Orochimaru came at Itachi with the intent of taking over his body. Unfortunately, his jutsu was way surpassed by the sharingan. Orochimaru knew that he could not handle taking over his body because it required more skill to restrain Itachi's sharingan than to defeat him (which most likely would not happen anyway).
Restrain his Sharingan? o_O Are you saying Orochimaru has a way to restrain it? I hope not. That just sounds a bit, ridiculous. Either way, be it attacking for collections sake, or to kill, the outcome would have been the same.

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I really doubt that ALL of Orochimaru's jutsu would fall prey to Itachi's eyes, I mean that would render anyone and any other ninja useless in a battle, that would make Sasuke and Itachi invincible.
A high level Sharingan like Itachi's makes for the strongest of all bloodline limits in the series so far. Soooo, yeah. It's natural for it to seem that way.
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