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Old 01-23-2008, 10:32 AM   #136
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Re: Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystik View Post
some places even do partial birth abortions but thats usually only done if something is severally wrong.. although i think this one state legalized it period.. now that i am totally against..
This is were we are in total agreement. Whether if the baby should be aborted before it's legally a fetus, we are gonna have to disagree, but if it's already forming and when it has fingernails (Juno is one funny movie), you gotta have the baby.

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Originally Posted by Mystik View Post
and don't say thats what condoms and birth control pills are for cause that doesnt always work..
True, but to not use them at all and to expect to not be pregnant is total idiocy.
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Old 01-23-2008, 06:46 PM   #137
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Re: Abortion

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Originally Posted by lovely angel View Post
i dont understand if you're talking about if i aborted a baby i would feel bad of course i killed it and i would never do it i would give it to an orphanange i am not a bad person to do that.
Just because someone gets an abortion that doesnt make them a bad person.. and giving a child to an orphanage with a ton of other children arent going to get adopted and probably abused cause yeah it happens.. you guys dont seem to understand that a woman is given an option.. its her damn choice.. get over it.. all this anti abortion people always have to throw omg its murder in people's faces just cause its something your against.. well you may not know this but thats wrong as well..
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:23 PM   #138
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Re: Abortion

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Originally Posted by hakushiro View Post
1. Again, no. You're not being technical, you're being silly. Murder is the killing of a living human organism, not cells. If you compare a human being to nothing more than a lump of cells, then you have found a justification for your murder.
2. Ah, okay. You have found your justification.
No, it's not. The definition of murder has very little biological backing, it's mostly based on morality. If murder was the killing of a living human (by this, you're obviously referring to something with human DNA. News flash, genius: Cells in our body are alive, and have human DNA. They do fit perfectly in your definition of murder, you're the one being silly, not me.) organism then pulling the plug on brain dead people would be murder, capital punishment would be murder, self-defense would be murder, etc. Obviously this isn't the case though, so your shitty argument comparing abortion to murder using biology definitions is flawed.

Besides the fact that murder can only be committed between humans, biology doesn't play any factor in defining murder. Nice try though, slick. You're not going to prove abortion is murder using shit arguments like that though.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:35 AM   #139
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Re: Abortion

Quote:
Explain pl0x, personally I don't latch onto unsuspecting victims and feed off their juices, but okay...
1. Oh, humans are worse. Instead of letting the unsuspecting victim go on with its life, the human organism takes it away.

Quote:
duuuuuuude! suicide's legality is redundant! If I committed suicide what do you think cops would do? Arrest and incarcerate my corpse?
1. No, it's not redundant. Maybe what you mean is contradictory. You are very funny though, I had a good laugh. =D

2. Finally, try not to mash the other person's username, it sort of gives you the image of an immature kid. Are you?

Quote:
No, it's not. The definition of murder has very little biological backing, it's mostly based on morality. If murder was the killing of a living human (by this, you're obviously referring to something with human DNA. News flash, genius: Cells in our body are alive, and have human DNA. They do fit perfectly in your definition of murder, you're the one being silly, not me.) organism then pulling the plug on brain dead people would be murder, capital punishment would be murder, self-defense would be murder, etc. Obviously this isn't the case though, so your shitty argument comparing abortion to murder using biology definitions is flawed.
1. News Flash, simpleton: I am completely aware of that. For that reason, I clearly stated:
Quote:
Murder is the killing of a living human organism, not cells.
so it is you who is being silly, being unable to pick out a specification from a jumble of words.
2. I did not use biology to define murder. I used a reference to a "basic instinct to define right from wrong, something that is present in the minds of more complex-minded organisms such as humans". Read previous posts. I hate repeating myself. And oh, read it thoroughly, please.
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Last edited by hakushiro; 01-24-2008 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:14 AM   #140
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Re: Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakushiro View Post
1. Oh, humans are worse. Instead of letting the unsuspecting victim go on with its life, the human organism takes it away.
haha I see wut you did thar!
I find it's rather hard to suspect a malicious intent
when you're hardly even conscious!



Quote:
1. No, it's not redundant. Maybe what you mean is contradictory. You are very funny though, I had a good laugh. =D
BAM! Logical Fallacy
Red Herring:
when the arguer diverts the attention by changing the subject.




Quote:
it sort of gives you the image of an immature kid. Are you?
Just for clarification: If you're referring to me quoting you as "hack" instead of "Hakushiro", I was simply just lazy.
BAM! Logical Fallacy
Ad hominem:
An arguer who uses ad hominems attacks the person instead of the argument. Whenever an arguer cannot defend his position with evidence, facts or reason, he or she may resort to attacking an opponent either through: labeling, straw man arguments, name calling, offensive remarks and anger.



Quote:
2. I did not use biology to define murder. I used a reference to a "basic instinct to define right from wrong, something that is present in the minds of more complex-minded organisms such as humans". Read previous posts. I hate repeating myself. And oh, read it thoroughly, please.
The words in the quotation marks can be summed up in one word: "morality".
Yet you clearly used biology to define what "life" was, which was then used to justify your argument that killing a fetus = killing a life = murder

let me quote you on that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakushiro
And what's life, anyway?
Biology would say that a living organism is something that:
1. has metabolism.
2. responds to external stimuli.
3. is capable of reproduction.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:36 AM   #141
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Re: Abortion

i say that if you don't want it, then why would you have put ur self in that situation where your pregnant. It may have been a accident in some cases but u shouldn't have been very cautious and using protection. If i was to ever get pregnant right now, i would try to have the baby i would never kill a living thing in ur body that's growing into a human child, i may not be able to take care of it but if i had to i would put it up for adoption, my mothere was young she gave me to my aunt and that's where i am, i'm stilling living a good life, if u have an abortion, u could be killing someone that could've
changed the world. u just never know.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:13 AM   #142
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Re: Abortion

^You're saying as if all women with abortions are careless and have sex all the time, well tell me which one is cheaper: a condom or an abortion procedure?
Also you talk about adoption - i think mystik said something about it actually being hard to get into a good home, plus orphanages are crowded iunno something along the lines of that. I'll have to research it.

Also you'd probably be affecting your child's mental state negatively by putting them up for adoption. (as in they'll probably ask themselves, "why didn't mommy love me?" "why did she give me away?" or some sentimental shit like that.) I know that doesn't happen to every child put up for adoption, but it's a more than likely consequence.


Quote:
if u have an abortion, u could be killing someone that could've
changed the world. u just never know.
To use your own argument against you, what if you failed to abort the second coming of Hitler or Stalin?

I just know that's a logical fallacy but I can't find the term for it >_<
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:32 AM   #143
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Re: Abortion

To someone who really doesnt believe in God and all that shit an Abortion is a very logical thing to do. So it really boils down to your beliefs and morals. I say dont be a hypocrite just do what is best for you, your family, and specially the innocent unborn child.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:36 AM   #144
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Re: Abortion

^indeed

people have been so caught up with this morality
one that is conditioned into them by higher authority
that they forget about what would be best for their loved ones
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Old 01-24-2008, 09:35 AM   #145
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Re: Abortion

I think that if you don't have an abortion, but you don't want the child, you mess up your own life and the life of the unwanted unborn child, if you would keep your the child it will sooner or later find out it was unwanted, and if you put it in an orphanage, then it will grow up without knowing its parents, I don't think that would make anyone happy.
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:51 AM   #146
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Re: Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakushiro View Post
1. News Flash, simpleton: I am completely aware of that. For that reason, I clearly stated:

so it is you who is being silly, being unable to pick out a specification from a jumble of words.
2. I did not use biology to define murder. I used a reference to a "basic instinct to define right from wrong, something that is present in the minds of more complex-minded organisms such as humans". Read previous posts. I hate repeating myself. And oh, read it thoroughly, please.
[QUOTE=hakushiro;1404957And what's life, anyway?
Biology would say that a living organism is something that:
1. has metabolism.
2. responds to external stimuli.
3. is capable of reproduction.
[/QUOTE]

Using the term "organism" doesn't mean shit when you clearly define it in such a way to make a (horrible) argument. I used human cells to show that your definition was flawed, as human cells also have metabolism, respond to external stimuli, and are capable of reproduction (at least in the same exact way a embryo/fetus is capable of reproducing at that point in development). So don't give me that shit, dude.

And like Mashed already pointed out, what you quoted also amounts to jack shit. You're using biology to define murder so that you can show the supposed immorality of abortions. No amount of weasel wording is going to save you from the fact that your premises are flawed as shit. The killing of a clump of cells with human DNA doesn't automatically fall under the definition of or compare to murder because it's biologically human. Again, the only one being silly here is you.

And cut the cocky shit, you're not even close to being a good enough debater to be pulling that crap. Seriously. ; )
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:02 PM   #147
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Re: Abortion

The way I see it, it's like if a woman wanted to cut her arm off. The arm's apart of her, as long as the fetus is inside the mother, the mother has the final say in weather it lives or dies. There are easily identified reasons for wanting to have an abortion, I don't care if it's murder or not, as that also has its justifications.

Just as murder can be justified through such things as extreme emotion or self defense, and dilluted to a lesser degree by things like cause (negligence), abortion can be justified as well. If a woman was raped, and got pregnant as a result of that rape, she might not want a constant reminder of her rape to take care of. As far as I know (and I can't clarify this), there are also medical issues that can result due to pregnancy and childbirth, so abortion is alright as long as the person getting the abortion consents to it.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:45 PM   #148
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Re: Abortion

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Originally Posted by babygirl View Post
i say that if you don't want it, then why would you have put ur self in that situation where your pregnant. It may have been a accident in some cases but u shouldn't have been very cautious and using protection. If i was to ever get pregnant right now, i would try to have the baby i would never kill a living thing in ur body that's growing into a human child, i may not be able to take care of it but if i had to i would put it up for adoption, my mothere was young she gave me to my aunt and that's where i am, i'm stilling living a good life, if u have an abortion, u could be killing someone that could've
changed the world. u just never know.
and again your only 12... its obvious you know nothing about the stages of pregnancy and as for protection.. you can use all the protection in the whole entire world and you can still get pregnant.. i had a friend who was on birth control and for extra backup her boyfriend used a condom and guess what she still ended up pregnant.. the only way to NOT get pregnant at all is to just not have sex.. and not all mothers handle pregnancy well.. i would rather a woman get an abortion in the early stages then end up having a baby and after its born end up killing it.. now that is murder..
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:03 AM   #149
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Re: Abortion

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Originally Posted by AnticitizenOne View Post
Just as murder can be justified through such things as extreme emotion or self defense, and dilluted to a lesser degree by things like cause (negligence), abortion can be justified as well. If a woman was raped, and got pregnant as a result of that rape, she might not want a constant reminder of her rape to take care of. As far as I know (and I can't clarify this), there are also medical issues that can result due to pregnancy and childbirth, so abortion is alright as long as the person getting the abortion consents to it.
No ure right. There's medical situations where the baby HAS to be aborted. It happens, also, I made something earlier about rape victims would want to have abortions to not keep the reminder of that unfortunate day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystik View Post
and again your only 12... its obvious you know nothing about the stages of pregnancy and as for protection.. you can use all the protection in the whole entire world and you can still get pregnant.. i had a friend who was on birth control and for extra backup her boyfriend used a condom and guess what she still ended up pregnant.. the only way to NOT get pregnant at all is to just not have sex.. and not all mothers handle pregnancy well
sounds like it too, but that came out kinda harsh. She doesn't know about it and the crappy sex education classes aren't shit and never was. I actually went to a couple of lectures in college about contraceptions in my health class. Out of all the stuff to use from novarings, shots, pill, condoms, spermacide, and etc., nothin 100% next to not havin sex
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:30 AM   #150
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Re: Abortion

Personally, all hypocritical dogmatic religious views aside, abortion has to exist as long as crime exists. For the sheer fact, God forbid, a random woman gets raped by some malevolent jerk, she by all means deserves the right to abort that conception. That should be allowed no matter what religion you are in favor of and no matter where you stand within abortion rallies. So sorry for all the anti-abortionist jerks that want raped women to have kids.

With that aside, in a more generalized sense of abortion, as in, when should the cut off date be? Most people state that 4 months is a great time, but I think anywhere from 60 to 90 days should be legitimate because individuals are actually conscious of the changes within the body at the very least, of 60 days. Thus, allowing people enough time to consider their options and etc. Anytime after four months, should be considered as a legitimate child considering the pregnancy is nearly half-way.
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