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Old 12-28-2007, 12:55 PM   #136
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Mashed Potato View Post
Lust by proper definition means "great desire". I think your definition of lust is sexual desire (which is somehow wrong according to you and your God. I have no beef against it. There is no logical reason to be against such a thing). BTW stop quoting and referring to the bible, it has proven to be an unreputable source. Ever tried reading leviticus? You claim to be against a totalitarian government, yet you worship a dogmatic bible packed full with hatred?
No, lust does go beyond sexual desire. Lust is great desire, but it is for the self, which is selfishness.

And the reason I have been quoting the Bible is because you are questioning whether the Bible's morals are wrong or not. I am showing you that the Bible's morals advocate love and they are against selfishness, which I think is pretty good since love is the root of good and human selfishness is the root of bad, even mentioned by Siddhartha. I mean you want me to express my morals in a way with out using the Bible, but the morals stressed in the Bible are my morals. I mean, hell, why don't I tell you to stop telling me your morals. How can you be an advocate against the government and be against freedom of speech?

Yes I have read Leviticus, but those codes were not supposed to be what was followed. The people of Israel didn't look at the heart of the rules and they instead tried to follow every rule, but with this they could not escape their hypocrisy, or idolatry.

And I am not against just a totalitarian government. I am against any government run by humans because each human is equal. Every politician we have ever elected has sucked. I don't want some idiot human representing me because no politician represents me, but me. Though as I said I am not a total anarchist because I do not believe violence is the necessary way to change things. Plus I believe that we anarchists should only strike through press and wait for the time to come. I think as people we should try to live under any government and make the most out of it, but we should always question authority. I believe that a collective anarchy is the best government one could offer.



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Have... to think... of a good analogy....
Technically it isn't adultery. There are so many things wrong with the definition you've provided. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a logical fallacy...
"Adultery is voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and one who is not his or her spouse."
Does it say "person that could be married in the near future"?
That's like saying we shouldn't abort a child because it could grow up to be a future scientist. (Which is bullshit because we have no way of knowing. The same is with whether a person will marry or not). And by the time they have married, the word "adultery" would only be valid if her then husband happens to have sex with another woman.
This is the problem. You truly look at time as linear. I look at time as everything happening at once because the only thing time really is, is a way to describe being and not being. Now with that said the person is married before they are even born because it is "being" that the person will be married, at least for the sake of the argument. Secondly don't bring abortion into this because it really doesn't help your argument. As I said before, I look at time as one big picture, things that are and things that aren't. If a kid isn't born then it isn't a kid because he never was a "being."


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A one night stand is premarital sex, but pre-marital sex isn't always a one night stand. Get it?
Btw a HUGE generalisation and misuse of the word greedy. I don't think I can convince you any further, you are adamant about the bibles morals.
I understood the first part and I never said premarital sex was a one night stand. Like I said before, Premarital sex is the act of having sex before you are married, no matter what the conditions. How was I misusing the word "greedy?" If I am correct then greed would be the idea of wanting more then you need, again, being selfish.

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That is monetary greed, a totally different type. Plus I do not find lust to be greedy. Stop treating your opinions as if they were fact...
How many fucking times do I have to say this? I said that my views are based on the Bible, whether you like it or not. I do not treat my views as factuality in your world. I am tired of whining people, such as you, who can't read a page back. You assume I am some "baptist crusader" who believes he is right and never takes anyone else's opinion into consideration. I am tired of these noobs. Ban plz.



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Yes I agree with you on that point, but the thing is, masturbation is not a bad thing!?
I already said that...

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What about masturbating to your own wife? Is it wrong?
Nope. I don't think it is. She would be married to you and the two of you would become one flesh. Therefore you can do that.

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I guess there is no point debating with someone who is adamant about their morals... just as long as you don't try and force it upon others >D There is no universal code for morals, after all. I'll tell you one thing... i've never met a religious anarchist before.
I have already stated this once. My debate is not who is right or who is wrong. I am just trying to show the similarity between morals in the Bible based on love, and good that happens everyday on earth.

There aren't many religious anarchists. Most religious Christians are either very conservative, or very liberal. I know for sure I am the only anarchist in my school and I go to a private Mennonite school, (no I am not Mennonite.) I guess my anarchism comes from a result of a huge interest in politics and I come from both a very liberal family full of Roman Catholics and a very conservative family full of Baptists.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:21 PM   #137
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

This post was because my last post was too long to edit:

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Are you suggesting that we disregard the use of logic because it might somehow, someway potentially be flawed? Now, would we apply this to everything, or just the topic of the existence of God? Come on, you've got to see where I'm going with this, dude. Nothing beats out logic in a debate, or in these types of situations. Especially not blind faith and baseless, unjustifiable claims.

Now for your own personal private beliefs, feel free to go ape-shit crazy with any illogical shit you want. That stuff just doesn't work too well in a debate. Sorry, not going to let this devolve into some far-fetched philosophical crap-fest. I hate that shit. Logic is what we use in debates. ; )
Yes, I believe we should disregard logic to some extent. Logic doesn't really universally prove anything anyways. As I have discussed in other threads. There is no universal truth at all. The question comes down to what reality is. Is reality a higher perspective then the human one or is it just every individual's perspective individually. Or is it every individual's perspective combined to form simultaneous realities to create one giant realities. Not even this can be proven logically. So how can a universal truth be proven when we technically don't know how to prove a universal truth?

I understand your idea of logic for the sake of debate and I can understand God not being in existence in your logic, but like I said before you have got to look beyond logic for everything. What I believe is that, as humans, our mind builds a cage because if it does not, then its map, or perspective, will never be completed. Our minds don't like the idea of floating in the air if you know what I mean. To find truth we must break open this cage of logic and find a higher, more infallible, perspective. I believe the cave idea of Socrates even expressed this. I believe the pineal gland is a huge factor in getting out of that cage, but I think the biggest factor is through God. That is what separates me.

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Well, yeah. Kinda. Logically, one cannot state that god positively, definitely, no way-no how doesn't exist. What most intelligent athiests would say is that his existence is equally probable as any imaginary, made-up, completely bullshitted fairy tale creature that I pull straight out my ass though. You know, the type of things that we normally go about our lives under the assumption that they just aren't there. Assuming non-existence is logical, and it's logic that everyone, including you, uses.

Unless you believe that there is a invisible gnome village under my bed that vanishes whenever you try to touch it, and a magic multi-dimensional space lizard eats my garbage every other tuesday. Don't believe me? Then you're using the same logic that I'm applying to the existence of God. He's equally probable, after all.
I understand this argument, but again I find logic to be fallible. I understand that the chance of God is the same chance of those creatures being real, but only if I look at it through a logical lens. Now the problem with the argument of the atheists is that they assume one looks at everything logically. But what if someone, like me, comes around and throws logic in the pot. Then they have a hell of a problem.

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Oh, so he just wants sheep? He doesn't care if you're a good person, he just wants you to be a huge tool? That's interesting.
He does want sheep. Read Jesus's parables. What are people referred to as. Though his argument is even deeper then the political sheep argument in that he believes everyone is a sheep of some sort, whether you follow the "thief" or if you follow the shepherd.

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God actually told Adam not to eat that shit. Key here being that this command came directly from God. God never told me to do shit, ever. If he did, I'd definitely consider doing whatever he asked or I'd gladly accept the consequences for disobeying him. I've never received any command from God though, so it's not exactly the same thing Adam went through. Protip: The Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by dudes.
God did tell you to do things. He just used man as a medium to record them. I mean I understand that you believe it is unfair that God spoke to Adam in a more convincing way, but what makes you think you are smarter then Adam. After all, you are of his decent and you contain his genes.

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I dunno about you, but eternal damnation just sounds like it might suck a bit. Can you honestly say that it's fair that I'd be punished for simply choosing to be logical about my beliefs during my life? He's basically saying "Logic? Fuck that! ETERNAL DAMNATION'D LOL!" That's fucking lame no matter how you slice it, dude.
He is throwing logic out of the window because what makes you think God looks at everything logically?

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Just want to comment on this too. They can be based on the same exact things heterosexual relationships are based on. The only difference between the two is that your partner either has a dong or a vagoo. That's it. Saying one is selfish when the other isn't is baseless and wrong. If anything, the idea that you should disregard the love you feel for someone if they happen to be of the same sex is far more superficial then the idea that people should be able to be with whoever they want. God, in this case, is being the superficial guy here. Not the homosexuals.
You can't reproduce with someone of the same sex, which is one of the reasons why marriage was invented. I mean marriage is a privilege, not a right. Also as I have said before, both heterosexual couples and homosexual couples can be wrong in the same way.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:41 PM   #138
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
Yes, I believe we should disregard logic to some extent. Logic doesn't really universally prove anything anyways. As I have discussed in other threads. There is no universal truth at all. The question comes down to what reality is. Is reality a higher perspective then the human one or is it just every individual's perspective individually. Or is it every individual's perspective combined to form simultaneous realities to create one giant realities. Not even this can be proven logically. So how can a universal truth be proven when we technically don't know how to prove a universal truth?
Thing is, logic is universal. If I find something logical and someone doesn't then (Assuming I'm using proper logic, of course) that person just doesn't understand logic very well. Logic is the only method we have to communicate between people, especially people with opposing beliefs and viewpoints, in an effective and universal manner. Something is either logical or it isn't, it's not based on personal opinion or bias.

Yeah, yeah. This all might be a dream, teh matrix haz us OMG, etc. Fun stuff to think about, I know. But again, let's not devolve this discussion into some bullshit philosophical faggotry. Let's just stick to the assumption that we're all meatbags walking around doing shit and it's all real, like we do when discussing anything else.

The point is that the belief in God is illogical. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but it's something that should be accepted by everyone. That's the point I'm trying to make.
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I understand your idea of logic for the sake of debate and I can understand God not being in existence in your logic, but like I said before you have got to look beyond logic for everything. What I believe is that, as humans, our mind builds a cage because if it does not, then its map, or perspective, will never be completed. Our minds don't like the idea of floating in the air if you know what I mean. To find truth we must break open this cage of logic and find a higher, more infallible, perspective. I believe the cave idea of Socrates even expressed this. I believe the pineal gland is a huge factor in getting out of that cage, but I think the biggest factor is through God. That is what separates me.
Funny that you bring up Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Many an analogy could be made between a religious person and the prisoners who refused to accept the outside world as well. Either way, the purpose of that is more about open-mindedness than anything else. And the use of logic doesn't limit open-mindedness at all. The current logical stance concerning the existence of God would change if credible evidence supporting his existence were to be discovered, after all. Being logical doesn't make one close-minded. Also, just because those people were being deceived doesn't mean we are. There's no basis for that assumption, things may very well be just as we see them now.

I certainly wouldn't consider blind faith and baseless beliefs to be the road to a more infallible perspective though. >.>

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I understand this argument, but again I find logic to be fallible. I understand that the chance of God is the same chance of those creatures being real, but only if I look at it through a logical lens. Now the problem with the argument of the atheists is that they assume one looks at everything logically. But what if someone, like me, comes around and throws logic in the pot. Then they have a hell of a problem.
Well, yeah, if you just completely disregard an argument because you don't like it despite the fact that it's completely valid and sound then you're going to put a kink in things. After all, it's hard to reason with an unreasonable person.

And if you can give one good reason why logic is fallible, other than bullshit philosophical speculation, in a debate setting of all places then I'm all ears. The philosophical crap about reality is really lame, you know as well as I do that you wouldn't use that crap if we were talking about the death penalty or some shit (Lyke iz it rly murder? cuz lyke we all might just exist in some dood's dream world & teh dood being killed cud lyke not rly exist amirite?). It's a cheap cop-out, plain and simple.
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God did tell you to do things. He just used man as a medium to record them. I mean I understand that you believe it is unfair that God spoke to Adam in a more convincing way, but what makes you think you are smarter then Adam. After all, you are of his decent and you contain his genes.
Wait, what? Where are you going with this? I'm of Adam's decent so I may not be smarter than him? Uh, wouldn't that mean God should try to be MORE convincing and direct instead of being less direct, considering Adam ate the fucking fruit even though God said right to the dude's face not to eat that shit and Adam still fucked up and ate it? Seriously, I'm not following this response.
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He is throwing logic out of the window because what makes you think God looks at everything logically?
So he just punishes people to eternal damnation for nonsensical (Or, completely self-absorbed, douchebaggish) reasons then? Don't give me that "it's beyond our understanding" crap either. We know exactly why he does it (Because they don't worship/believe/whatever him despite the fact that it's simply not logical. and we know it's meant to be a punishment). If anyone else walked around punching people in the face because they weren't worshiping him then everyone would call that guy a dick. And eternal damnation sounds a bit worse than having your face punched in. Yeah, God is our creator and can do what he wants, etc. That's completely irrelevant about the fairness of his actions though. They're dickish no matter who is doing them.

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You can't reproduce with someone of the same sex, which is one of the reasons why marriage was invented. I mean marriage is a privilege, not a right. Also as I have said before, both heterosexual couples and homosexual couples can be wrong in the same way.
Not all heterosexual couples are capable of reproducing either, nor is reproduction a requirement of married individuals. I know you alluded to them equally earlier, it was your defense of the stance that homosexuals are superficial that I was opposed to. Fact is, despite what the Bible may say, there's nothing wrong with homosexuality...or a number of other things God apparently dislikes as well.
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:38 PM   #139
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
Now this is what I fail to understand. What makes you come to the conclusion that we are all worshiping the same God. I am all for not shoving my views in someone's face, but I don't understand how I can be worshiping the same God as a religion that believes that their God will kill you if you don't make a human sacrifice.


when i said that we all worship the same god i am speaking of the three major monotheistic religions in the world right now. Mainly Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Thats what i maent by us all worshiping the same god.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:47 PM   #140
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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No, lust does go beyond sexual desire. Lust is great desire, but it is for the self, which is selfishness.
I would only consider this above statement you have been a homosexual in the past. Since I doubt you have... I do not understand how you could feel what homosexuals are feeling so accurately.

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And the reason I have been quoting the Bible is because you are questioning whether the Bible's morals are wrong or not. I am showing you that the Bible's morals advocate love and they are against selfishness, which I think is pretty good since love is the root of good and human selfishness is the root of bad, even mentioned by Siddhartha. I mean you want me to express my morals in a way with out using the Bible, but the morals stressed in the Bible are my morals. I mean, hell, why don't I tell you to stop telling me your morals. How can you be an advocate against the government and be against freedom of speech?
I am definitely not against freedom of speech, but I just don't get how people could follow such a hateful book so intently. Especially the kind who claim bible is "open to interpretation" when it is clearly not. When the bible says to homosexuals should be put to death, it is not open to interpretation.

Why not have an independent way of thought? That way if you commit a benevolent deed, you know you're doing it out of the goodness of your own heart. Whereas if you were to follow bible morals and commit a good deed, you do it out of fear, or maybe to ass-kiss a manmade deity.. It is truly the selfish way of thought.


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Yes I have read Leviticus, but those codes were not supposed to be what was followed. The people of Israel didn't look at the heart of the rules and they instead tried to follow every rule, but with this they could not escape their hypocrisy, or idolatry.
I guess my argument would be- why should anyone get morals from the same book that condemns working on sabbath, touching the skin of a dead pig, homosexuality, any contact with a woman during her menstrual period, and such a trivialitity as wearing two types of threads on one garment (which are all punishable by death!)

If you really wanted morals, why not get it from buddhist teachings? At least they don't have a spiteful God, they don't have a God at all...


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And I am not against just a totalitarian government. I am against any government run by humans because each human is equal. Every politician we have ever elected has sucked. I don't want some idiot human representing me because no politician represents me, but me. Though as I said I am not a total anarchist because I do not believe violence is the necessary way to change things. Plus I believe that we anarchists should only strike through press and wait for the time to come. I think as people we should try to live under any government and make the most out of it, but we should always question authority. I believe that a collective anarchy is the best government one could offer.
Currently I support an anarchistic view (more specifically, libertarian socialism) but more for the economic side of it. I have yet to figure out how a society works under a lawless state. Crims would run rampant. In another thread i read, it asked the question: "If it were not illegal to do so, would you kill another human being?" Almost 90% of the responders said "yes". You may survive and obey properly without rules, but who's to say the rest of the population is as civil as you?


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How many fucking times do I have to say this? I said that my views are based on the Bible, whether you like it or not. I do not treat my views as factuality in your world. I am tired of whining people, such as you, who can't read a page back. You assume I am some "baptist crusader" who believes he is right and never takes anyone else's opinion into consideration. I am tired of these noobs. Ban plz.
sorry but I never said you were, I just said that in this argument you acted like it o_- Lol I'm surprised you asked someone to ban me for simply stating my views, that would be the equivalent of asking a police officer to arrest me because I've contradicted someone's statement.

ETA: I cannot read over previous pages as I have exceeded my bandwidth usage. Loading pages has become extremely slow.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:32 PM   #141
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

Close minded people are bound to fall flat on there own faces. If i am to quote the events that took part in 2007 throught the republican party that is by all means a christian conservative political party. How many of there members this year alone probed to be the oposite of what there views were contradicting one another.

And if any body gets mad so what. I keep my religious views to myself and dont quote the bible becuase its nothing more than a book with moral storys that give us examples to live by thats all it is.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:43 PM   #142
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Hiraku View Post
Close minded people are bound to fall flat on there own faces. If i am to quote the events that took part in 2007 throught the republican party that is by all means a christian conservative political party. How many of there members this year alone probed to be the oposite of what there views were contradicting one another.
Haven't heard about that particular event, but I think being close minded is a dangerous thing indeed. Religion can be a tool used to incite unimaginable hatred. A man called Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy, simply for having a logical view on things (which the church strongly opposed). He was deemed psychologically ill and was killed because he thought the sun was a star. I just don't find justice in that.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:50 PM   #143
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

dont you remember that a bunch of the republicans turned out to be closet gay guys.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:57 PM   #144
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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dont you remember that a bunch of the republicans turned out to be closet gay guys.
I don't live in the US.

But that's interesting... I don't know why someone's sexual orientation should affect a political decision. A politician's private life should not be taken into consideration when it comes 'round to election time.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:01 PM   #145
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

Republicans are a conservative christian hardliners party. There opposed to everything such as immigration, gay people and stuff like that. Thats why i said that.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:14 PM   #146
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Thing is, logic is universal. If I find something logical and someone doesn't then (Assuming I'm using proper logic, of course) that person just doesn't understand logic very well. Logic is the only method we have to communicate between people, especially people with opposing beliefs and viewpoints, in an effective and universal manner. Something is either logical or it isn't, it's not based on personal opinion or bias.
[QUOTE]But nothing is really universal so does logic even exist. Logically prove that knowledge of something can be universal, and then we will talk. You can't get rid of personal bias as long as you are a human.

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Yeah, yeah. This all might be a dream, teh matrix haz us OMG, etc. Fun stuff to think about, I know. But again, let's not devolve this discussion into some bullshit philosophical faggotry. Let's just stick to the assumption that we're all meatbags walking around doing shit and it's all real, like we do when discussing anything else.
Why should we assume that though? Wouldn't an assumption be illogical because it can't be proven? According to your argument everything should be looked at logically.

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The point is that the belief in God is illogical. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but it's something that should be accepted by everyone. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I understand it is illogical. What I don't understand is why logic constricts our views on things.


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Funny that you bring up Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Many an analogy could be made between a religious person and the prisoners who refused to accept the outside world as well. Either way, the purpose of that is more about open-mindedness than anything else. And the use of logic doesn't limit open-mindedness at all. The current logical stance concerning the existence of God would change if credible evidence supporting his existence were to be discovered, after all. Being logical doesn't make one close-minded. Also, just because those people were being deceived doesn't mean we are. There's no basis for that assumption, things may very well be just as we see them now.
I understand its purpose. Now this is where I disagree with you. How is being logical not close-minded? You are judging everything off of one mindset that is based on universal truth, something that can not be proven. So how can their be logic? Why not look through the eyes of faith, which you actually do all the time? When you sit in a chair, how come you don't have a second thought if it will hold up or not?

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I certainly wouldn't consider blind faith and baseless beliefs to be the road to a more infallible perspective though. >.>
What if you could look at it using blind faith and logic?

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Well, yeah, if you just completely disregard an argument because you don't like it despite the fact that it's completely valid and sound then you're going to put a kink in things. After all, it's hard to reason with an unreasonable person.
What is validity? What is sound? You must define these and make sure that everyone in the world agrees with them. Otherwise, it wouldn't be logical to make a statement like that.

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And if you can give one good reason why logic is fallible, other than bullshit philosophical speculation, in a debate setting of all places then I'm all ears. The philosophical crap about reality is really lame, you know as well as I do that you wouldn't use that crap if we were talking about the death penalty or some shit (Lyke iz it rly murder? cuz lyke we all might just exist in some dood's dream world & teh dood being killed cud lyke not rly exist amirite?). It's a cheap cop-out, plain and simple.
Why is it bullshit? Are you running away from an idea? That would be showing your bias would it not, which is not allowed if you look at things logically.

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Wait, what? Where are you going with this? I'm of Adam's decent so I may not be smarter than him? Uh, wouldn't that mean God should try to be MORE convincing and direct instead of being less direct, considering Adam ate the fucking fruit even though God said right to the dude's face not to eat that shit and Adam still fucked up and ate it? Seriously, I'm not following this response.
Listen. If God just came down and told you to worship him, would that relationship be filled with true love?

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So he just punishes people to eternal damnation for nonsensical (Or, completely self-absorbed, douchebaggish) reasons then? Don't give me that "it's beyond our understanding" crap either. We know exactly why he does it (Because they don't worship/believe/whatever him despite the fact that it's simply not logical. and we know it's meant to be a punishment). If anyone else walked around punching people in the face because they weren't worshiping him then everyone would call that guy a dick. And eternal damnation sounds a bit worse than having your face punched in. Yeah, God is our creator and can do what he wants, etc. That's completely irrelevant about the fairness of his actions though. They're dickish no matter who is doing them.
You are only punching yourself in the face. Why do you feel that it is his fault that you choose to not believe in him? You are the one who is sinning and accepting eternal damnation.

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Not all heterosexual couples are capable of reproducing either, nor is reproduction a requirement of married individuals. I know you alluded to them equally earlier, it was your defense of the stance that homosexuals are superficial that I was opposed to. Fact is, despite what the Bible may say, there's nothing wrong with homosexuality...or a number of other things God apparently dislikes as well.
I understand not every couple will be able to reproduce, but that was God's decision to make them that way. If we go around with the attitude to not reproduce because others cannot then that is wrong.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:14 PM   #147
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

Double post because of long message:

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when i said that we all worship the same god i am speaking of the three major monotheistic religions in the world right now. Mainly Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Thats what i maent by us all worshiping the same god.
How? Each god is different in each religion. Both in Judaism and Islam the god is more interested in what you do then how your heart is, at least that is what I have gained out of knowledge. I still have not read the whole Qu'ran so I wouldn't know that much.

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I would only consider this above statement you have been a homosexual in the past. Since I doubt you have... I do not understand how you could feel what homosexuals are feeling so accurately.
I don't have to be a homosexual. I just have to know what it feels like to lust after someone, which I have felt many times, .

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I am definitely not against freedom of speech, but I just don't get how people could follow such a hateful book so intently. Especially the kind who claim bible is "open to interpretation" when it is clearly not. When the bible says to homosexuals should be put to death, it is not open to interpretation.

Why not have an independent way of thought? That way if you commit a benevolent deed, you know you're doing it out of the goodness of your own heart. Whereas if you were to follow bible morals and commit a good deed, you do it out of fear, or maybe to ass-kiss a manmade deity.. It is truly the selfish way of thought.
Ok well it isn't really a hateful book. Jesus even goes against the commands given in Leviticus such as working on the Sabbath and killing people for sins. The idea of Leviticus is that the people looked at the rules as rules and not as guidelines.

And you ask why not have an independent thought. Well that is because the same mind that would be running my morals would be the same mind that is always thinking about women. The same mind that wants to take revenge. I don't think out mind is perfect enough to make such morals. And no I do these things out of fear. I do them out of love because love conquers all and it never fails. People that do it out of fear cannot have a strong relationship with God.

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I guess my argument would be- why should anyone get morals from the same book that condemns working on sabbath, touching the skin of a dead pig, homosexuality, any contact with a woman during her menstrual period, and such a trivialitity as wearing two types of threads on one garment (which are all punishable by death!)

If you really wanted morals, why not get it from buddhist teachings? At least they don't have a spiteful God, they don't have a God at all...
I have already fought this argument in a previous comment, but the idea of taking morals from Buddhist teachings, well I don't need to. I do take things from Buddhism such as meditation, but Buddhism is a religion in which you must have pride. Buddhism teaches that enlightenment comes from the self. Christianity says it comes from God.

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sorry but I never said you were, I just said that in this argument you acted like it o_- Lol I'm surprised you asked someone to ban me for simply stating my views, that would be the equivalent of asking a police officer to arrest me because I've contradicted someone's statement.

ETA: I cannot read over previous pages as I have exceeded my bandwidth usage. Loading pages has become extremely slow.
1. The ban me message was towards me. I called you a noob and was expecting a ban by the fascists.

2. Well now you know.

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Close minded people are bound to fall flat on there own faces. If i am to quote the events that took part in 2007 throught the republican party that is by all means a christian conservative political party. How many of there members this year alone probed to be the oposite of what there views were contradicting one another.

And if any body gets mad so what. I keep my religious views to myself and dont quote the bible becuase its nothing more than a book with moral storys that give us examples to live by thats all it is.
Now I don't want to go rolling into a tangent here, but there will always be problems with politicians because they are human. Secondly you related Christianity to peoples actions, which is wrong and shows your knowledge of the Bible. I sit here reading your message rubbing your head thinking, "Well no wonder he hates the Bible, he doesn't even read it."
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:18 PM   #148
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

It is about faith.
You either believe In God or you Don't so it doesn't matter too much to argue.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:22 PM   #149
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

Tell that to every one that is an atheist or does not want to just have faith without physical proof. Its as easy as just believing and not beliveing.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:22 PM   #150
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by JenGHina7 View Post
It is about faith.
You either believe In God or you Don't so it doesn't matter too much to argue.
We kind have diverted our argument a bit if you haven't noticed.
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