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Old 12-07-2007, 09:24 PM   #61
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by dfacto View Post
Come on Miburo, she owned you pretty good. Be a sport about it and get to prayin!
Lol. XD

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Originally Posted by AnticitizenOne View Post
Horay for thinly veiled trolling!
Report it then. You already waste enough space in debate threads as it is, don't start adding off-topic whining to the mix.

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Seriously, nobody has a right to say weather god does or does not exist, or weather there's a heaven or a hell as a matter of fact. The only way to know these things is to be dead, and therefore there is no possible way for any living person to realize this.

You can take religion from whatever sources you want, but if you want to believe one book over another that's fine with me. They're all just as provenly reliable, especially since nobody alive today was there. There is no proof, and there is no way to tell.

The fact that we have not seen the entire universe means we can't be sure of anything at this point, ergo we cannot say for sure that there isn't something that's neither matter nor energy out there somewhere. In fact, I have had friends in the past who have claimed sightings of ghosts, and seen documentaries on the existance of spirits. I can't say if people are wrong or right on this, but there is some chance.
tl;dr version of all this: There's no proof either way.

Thing is, that's exactly the point. If there's no proof supporting a god's existence, then the logical course of action is to stick with the default stance. Which just so happens to be non-existence.

The burden of proof falls on the people making the claim. If I said invisible flying space turtles existed no one is going to take me seriously if I can't back that claim up. They'll stick with the default stance of non-existence until I am able to present compelling evidence that supports my claim; and they are in no way responsible for disproving my claim. Existence and non-existence aren't equally probable, and they're in no way equal logically. This is basic, simple shit here. If you don't get this, then you just don't get how logic works. Period.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:49 PM   #62
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

God doesnt not exist its just a religion how could god make this world before he was born, people use your brain here, science earth was made from science all that shit that mixed up and made earth like any other planet, god didn't make other planets so why would he make earth, this is pretty obvious and i totally agree with Beikoku Rikujin
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:22 AM   #63
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

I believe that there is a rabid chimp behind you. It can't be seen and is intangible. In fact, there's no way to detect it. But believe me, it exists because I was taught from a very young age that that rabid chimp was behind you. Disprove it.

Religion was created as a security device. There would be much more violence and hatred if it weren't for religion. Come on, it even sounds like a penal system
God says: "If you are evil, then you're going to suffer for eternity"
Criminal Justice says: "If you are evil, you're going to be locked away/killed/tortured" (Depending of which society we're talking about.)

The fact is, I would love to be religious, the same way I would love to be part of the Naruto universe. Religion is fictitious.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:47 PM   #64
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Report it then. You already waste enough space in debate threads as it is, don't start adding off-topic whining to the mix.
How cheery of you. I forgot the sheer joy that ensues when you decide to flame me. Tears in my eyes from laughing appear as you attempt to make me care about the opinion of some random person online.
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Thing is, that's exactly the point. If there's no proof supporting a god's existence, then the logical course of action is to stick with the default stance. Which just so happens to be non-existence.
Some people believe in miracles, and that god smiles upon the world. I cannot say that these people are neither right nor wrong. Unless you have died and come back to life and not seen god, you can't prove that he doesn't exist. All you're really giong to do here is proceed to make yourself look like someone who pursues the faith of science. Not saying htat's a bad thing, but seriously, why try and change people's faith when you know you will ultimately fail to make an impression. This is the internet god dammit.
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The burden of proof falls on the people making the claim. If I said invisible flying space turtles existed no one is going to take me seriously if I can't back that claim up. They'll stick with the default stance of non-existence until I am able to present compelling evidence that supports my claim; and they are in no way responsible for disproving my claim.
That's not true. You're randomly going around trying to "disprove" what at this point is considered a theory. A widely accepted idea that has not been proven false. Like the idea of intelligent life somewhere in the universe, there's no way you can disprove this because you haven't been there. Any kind of proof you may have to disprove the existence of god is moot.
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Existence and non-existence aren't equally probable, and they're in no way equal logically. This is basic, simple shit here. If you don't get this, then you just don't get how logic works. Period.
Well, if you haven't been everywhere in the universe, haven't been dead, and haven't been to any kind of place where you might supposedly see god, you'll never know. All I see is that you're a person who has an absolutely closed mind and anything that he cannot see for his own eyes is a lie and isn't there. Now that's all fine and dandy, but don't try to convert people away from Christianity. There was a time when people who didn't believe in god would be judged by the church to be a heretic and condemned to death. Today, we just ignore these people. Either way, nobody really pays attention.
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:51 PM   #65
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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That's not true. You're randomly going around trying to "disprove" what at this point is considered a theory. A widely accepted idea that has not been proven false. Like the idea of intelligent life somewhere in the universe, there's no way you can disprove this because you haven't been there. Any kind of proof you may have to disprove the existence of god is moot.
No, that's not true. The atheist stance requires no entity; in essence a basic simple state. Theists take that basic state and add a deity on top of it. Where there was once nothing, there is something huge which brings with it a plethora of astonishingly complex questions.

When you introduce something like this into any argument, the burden of proof certainly IS upon you. Atheists only "need" to prove their points because of the predominance of religious thought. The burden of proof is not upon us, but when the odds are stacked against you it certainly helps to bring some help along.

If you feel like arguing, then here are some thought experiments:

You friend tells you he has an invisible friend. You doubt it. Who is the burden of proof upon?

A man claims to have been abducted by aliens. Everyone else is skeptical. Who is the burden of proof upon?

A man tells you that the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Praise be to his Noodliness, created the entire universe. You think he's out of his mind. Who is the burden of proof upon?

Not upon you and the skeptics, I can tell you that much. By attempting to evenly spread the burden of proof you open the door to all types of absurd claims being treated in an equal manner, when anyone can tell you that all or most are guaranteed to be BS.

You posit something incredibly complex and with far reaching implications on all being in the universe, you prove it to us. That's how it works.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:10 PM   #66
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

While there's no reason for me to quote this whole post, I do have something to say about it:

I never posted anything, it's just that atheists decided to come out and try to "disprove" god with absolutely zero proof that he doesn't exist. I don't give a damn weather you believe it or not. It's just that you shouldn't try and "disprove" it when you're really just giving us stupidity and assumption.

How do you explain the bible and all those who claim to have seen god. This isn't just one person we're talking about, it's thousands upon thousands who believe the same thing. There's no way to either disprove or prove god's existence. This is not a debate about weather god exists or not, this is a debate about who has the "burden of proof".

In fact, it's not a debate at all, it's what they call an ultimate standoff. There's no way in hell we're going to prove or disprove god, so we're all just wasting our time here when we could be doing something productive. I guess that's the point of this debate though.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:31 PM   #67
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by AnticitizenOne View Post
I never posted anything, it's just that atheists decided to come out and try to "disprove" god with absolutely zero proof that he doesn't exist.
Well, they can disprove God just as much as you can prove him. Standoff as you say. But the burden of proof is still there on you guys, you just have a numerical advantage. :P

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How do you explain the bible and all those who claim to have seen god. This isn't just one person we're talking about, it's thousands upon thousands who believe the same thing.
People will believe anything you raise them to believe, and with some things, when you get the ball rolling, it's nearly impossible to stop. Religion is like language. A concept we are taught and which is accepted to various degrees because of some human need.

I don't think humanity can do without religion. At the end of the day you gotta believe something and put your faith somewhere. And for many that can't simply be a freeform belief, but needs to be orderly and structured as religions are. God may die, but I think we'll need priests forever.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:58 PM   #68
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by dfacto View Post
Well, they can disprove God just as much as you can prove him. Standoff as you say. But the burden of proof is still there on you guys, you just have a numerical advantage. :P
The burden of proof is on us you say? I say that's bullshit. I'm not trying to prove to you that he does exist, like I said I don't give a damn. YOU are trying to prove to ME that he doesn't exist.

I have proof that he exists. The Bible, and the people who wrote it. They say Jesus is real. So the burden is on YOU to prove that they are all lying, the millions of christians are all misplaced in their faith, and that all of those miracles described by the people about Jesus of Nazareth and everything else mentioned in the bible NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED. You're wrong when you say the burden of proof is on me, because I'm not the one trying to prove something here.
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People will believe anything you raise them to believe, and with some things, when you get the ball rolling, it's nearly impossible to stop. Religion is like language. A concept we are taught and which is accepted to various degrees because of some human need.
Religion is in the eye of the person believing it this is true, but to say it's simply wrong just becasue you don't believe it is stupid on so many levels. You can't say for sure that he doesn't exist because you don't believe in him. Just because, like I said, your mind is completely closed and you won't believe anything unless given absolute irrefutable proof to its existence.

Despite the word of so many credible people, you still say there is no proof. Murderers are convicted on witness testimony, so are numerous other criminals. Credibility is everything, and until you can give me evidence condemning the credibility of anyone involved within the writing of the bible, I won't even consider believing you.

The only thing you have been saying is "well there's no proof and the burden is on you to prove it even though this thread is about US proving that god DOESN'T exist rather than you proving that he does." And I'm sorry but that's not good enough for me.
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I don't think humanity can do without religion. At the end of the day you gotta believe something and put your faith somewhere. And for many that can't simply be a freeform belief, but needs to be orderly and structured as religions are. God may die, but I think we'll need priests forever.
Well, this is your opinions that I can't say I disagree with. I haven't really thought about religion's affect on humanity.
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Old 12-08-2007, 08:36 PM   #69
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

i may talking rubbish here.. but i cant help but put what i think.. dont really take too much of it.. lol..

i guess to me, religion and science are the same? its just that one is much logical, trusted and proven, therefore believed while religion is something that u need to have a strong faith in it since young to believe in?

again, im just sayin what i think.. pay no heed cuz im not like u guys where u can debate it out. lol.
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Old 12-08-2007, 08:37 PM   #70
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
48 explained this very, very well. Logic is universal.

As for what I meant by saying 'being logical in life' I'm referring to the application of Occam's Razor to the existence of unverifiable, baseless creatures. You most likely apply this very logic to a number of things, be it five eyed invisible ogres, to space turtles with machine guns strapped to their backs, to things like pixies and gnomes. Or other gods.

Non-existence is the default stance since the concept of God didn't exist until someone made the claim of him existing. Since the claim cannot be supported in anyway, there is no reason to change the default stance. Making non-existence the preferred logical decision. This doesn't not ignore the possibility of existence, it just means that it existence shouldn't be taken into consideration until some sort of proof can be supplied. It sounds like a complex logical concept, but like I said, I'd wager everyone uses this logic during their lifetimes.
But in my life I have proof of him. It is just proof I cannot share to others.

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Prove that he has. The burden of proof isn't on me on this one. Besides, the fact that he has the power to end suffering for everyone, yet chooses not to, was the point. No one is going to give me any medals for saving a handful of people with my miracle cure for all diseases if it I could effortlessly have saved a shit-ton more, but chose not to. You know what I mean? Letting people suffer when one can easily save them isn't a nice thing to do no matter how you try and smear it.
I can't prove that he has and you can't prove he hasn't so I guess we are at stalemate so we do not have proof that God doesn't exist on that one.

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You really think every animal to ever exist on the planet only existed one day prior to the emergence of humans? Or that two of every living non-aquatic creature on the planet someone crossed oceans to find a way to some big boat that somehow could house them all plus all the food they'd all eat for 40 days, then repopulate the earth? Come on, dude.
Wait a second here. The creation story probably doesn't mean "day" as in human days. If you look in 2nd Peter it even states that a day in God's eyes is like 1000 in our own, which in the context Peter was saying it, 1000 shouldn't be taken literally.

As for Noah's Ark. How do you even know they had to cross an ocean?
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:56 PM   #71
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by AnticitizenOne View Post
The burden of proof is on us you say? I say that's bullshit. I'm not trying to prove to you that he does exist, like I said I don't give a damn. YOU are trying to prove to ME that he doesn't exist.
By replying in the argument, you ARE trying to prove he exists. If you weren't trying to prove it, you wouldn't have replied.

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I have proof that he exists. The Bible, and the people who wrote it. They say Jesus is real. So the burden is on YOU to prove that they are all lying, the millions of christians are all misplaced in their faith, and that all of those miracles described by the people about Jesus of Nazareth and everything else mentioned in the bible NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED. You're wrong when you say the burden of proof is on me, because I'm not the one trying to prove something here.
Soooo, by that logic, when the millions of people believed that the Earth was flat, it really was flat.


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Despite the word of so many credible people, you still say there is no proof. Murderers are convicted on witness testimony, so are numerous other criminals. Credibility is everything, and until you can give me evidence condemning the credibility of anyone involved within the writing of the bible, I won't even consider believing you.
Again, Flat Earth.
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Old 12-08-2007, 10:03 PM   #72
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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By replying in the argument, you ARE trying to prove he exists. If you weren't trying to prove it, you wouldn't have replied.
I was trying to prove that this argument is frivilous and devoid of arguable merit. When I came to this thread, I expected someone to attempt to give PROOF that god did not exist. This thread is entitled "Proof that god does not exist" is it not? So the point of this thread is to prove that god does not exist. All I've seen so far is them throwing around the fact that the "burden of proof" is on my side, which it isn't.
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Soooo, by that logic, when the millions of people believed that the Earth was flat, it really was flat.
That is absolutely different. In this case, there is no way to give irreputable proof that god does not exist, no way to test its truth. In that case, there was, they just had not tested it yet.
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Old 12-08-2007, 10:55 PM   #73
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

God exists. Read a bible. Case closed.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:13 PM   #74
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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And I think that the plagues and the like were all a load of bullshit. It's all about a person's beliefs. I believe that the universe was created by the Big Bang, I believe that our solar system was created in the way that I described, and I believe that humans evolved in the manner that I described. You believe in your religion, and that's your right to do so.
Speaking of the Big Bang...
where do you think that cloud of gas,where it all started, came from?
and where did that substance of whatever that created the cloud of gas came from? it's GOD!
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Old 12-09-2007, 08:53 AM   #75
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Proof 2: The story of Jesus has overwhelming similarities to the story of Horus from Egyptian mythology. If you read the book titled "The Jesus papers", you will see incontrovertable proof that Jesus was rescued from the cross and was still alive in 40 AD. It is likely that afterwards, those who rescued him forged the gospels to create a false religion based on the story of Horus.
.
I find this one EXTREMELY hard to believe....

Jesus' story has nothing to do with the story of Horus - there are some similarities but they are not overwhelming.

Horus was the only son of the Goddess Isis and the dead Pharaoh/God, Osiris. His uncle, Seth, murdered Osiris to get to the throne. In secret, Isis raised Horus with help of the other Goddesses, and when he was of age. His father came to the world of the living, to teach Horus how to use weapons etc. Eventually, Horus and Seth had a number of fights/battles, and Horus came out to be the victor, and hence, became Pharaoh of Egypt.

^ now how does this relate to Jesus? Son of God? Yes.... Son of a Virgin? Yes.... thats all I can see.

Plus the bible was written many years after Jesus' time....
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