Zetsu_Rocks

I find it funny that when people debate religion they try to disprove or prove the existence of a divine entity (or what have you) through "logic" of how or why it exists. It would be as if I was talking to someone who is schizophrenic. That person can see things that I can not. There is no way for me to prove it is or is not there. With religion, however, there is a framework that every religion is built on. In other words, there are rules and explanations to why and how things work. To disprove a religion you have to find faults in its framework, explanations. There is no way for me to disprove or prove that there is some type of governing entity within the universe (or whatever). But there are ways to disprove religions. Religions contain contradictions that can be found through the study of a religion's framework. All you have to do is look close enough to discover them. Shoot, sometimes you don't even have to look closely.

RNB

Christianity doesn't give off the view of a tyrannical God. Christianity stresses a personal relationship with God. How can you be scared of a God who releases you from eternal punishment? Through the Bible God even stress the idea that no matter what we do God will never give up on us. The book of Hosea is a perfect model for this.

And these are my beliefs so I don't want to hear anyone whine about, "Well those are your views."

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"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Hiraku

so are you talking about how some super smart and charamatic leader will so come forth and lead society into a moral super utopia that will one day rid itself of crime and violence. Before you jump the gun and say atheism is the wave of the future look back at europe 1920 thru the 1940 of communism and fascistm.

That is what they declared and propogated a world without god and atheism were they declared god was obsolete and that the individual was nothing if not for the greater good of the state and the leader.

Forget atheism its a weakeness in it of itself were god is replaced by a figurehead dictator leader that becomes there new god.

No thanks i think i rather believe in good ness and in god and just keep trucking along until i die. i really dont care if i go to heaven or hell becuase i am not worthy of heaven or god forgiveness for the crimes of man i have carried.

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Hiraku

The Look of Innocence

Meteorain27

In Christianity, you are being punished for the sins of Adam and Eve. God sets your morals for you, saying what is wrong and what is right. The descendants of Can are marked as slaves, again being punished for the sin of the father. And the reward for following God is bliss, while the punishment for not following him is eternal suffering.

Anyways, not considering that, you could always go the benevolent dictator angle.

EDIT:

Never said anything about utopia. But eventually, I believe theism will dwindle to nothing, and one of two things will happen then: Either the world will turn to nihilism, or a set of new morals will be created to stop the self-destructiveness that would ensue from a nihilistic society.

Zetsu_Rocks

I like the whole benevolent dictator idea.

Hiraku

all power and all societys have a great goal to be a great utopia such as germany and the soviet union were to be the paradise on earth for the workers partys such as the communist and natzis. And yet they were some of the worst groups in human history.


And when i was talking about the crimes of man i have help carry im talking about one of the most important of the ten commandments thou shall not kill.

Thats what i ment by it. Figure out why read my bio and that will explain it.

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Hiraku

The Look of Innocence

Zetsu_Rocks

The leaders of those nations used the idea of a utopia as façade in order for them to obtain power.

Hiraku

thats why there is no right religion or group to follow best to just have your own personal beliefs and keep them to yourself that my own belief and its saves you a heck of a lot of problems in the end to.

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Hiraku

The Look of Innocence

AnticitizenOne

God gave us life, who is to challenge his authority over us? We all sin against him, and yet he lets us keep our freedom without forcing us to obey him. It was all his choice, to let us go on our own and take care of our self.
I'm sorry, but that's not going to happen. Theism gives people comfort to know that there's somebody watching over everything. Reality is within the eye of the person seeing it. If I believe god exists, he exists, nothing will change that. I could easily convince myself that whatever you say is a lie. So, if parents continue to teach their children theism it will continue to survive, and that's what will happen.

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RNB

This is what I mean reading the bible and interpreting it. Judging from your explanation, I would say you are taking it at face value. "The only punishment for sin is death," is said throughout the Bible. This is referring to death as eternal death, which anyone can pretty much see. If that is the only punishment then who is it that is receiving this punishment? Well according to the Bible it is the people that, "do not believe in him," and Jesus was punished for the people who accepted his gift, which were the people who, "believed in him." Now the idea of what is "believing in him is discussed throughout much of the old testament by people like Jesus, Apostle Paul, John, and etc. Jesus said that heart God wanted was a servants heart, one that, "Believed in God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength," and one that could, "Love their neighbor as their self." I mean the only people that are being punished are the people that want to be, technically.

Secondly, I don't see the problem with God's morals at all. Really they come down to submitting myself to God first and then others, which I am expected to not do all the time, as explained in Hosea. The only ones that are even debatable to some people, at least I have heard, are the ideas that we should not engage in premarital sex or homosexuality. What I really don't understand is why this is a bad thing. They both are, to some people, pleasures that some people think are necessary to human existence. How greedy does one have to get before they start saying that they should bang every woman in the whole fucking world. How greedy do you have to be to not even be satisfactory with ones personality so instead you go by sexual arousal and feel that love is based on how sexually attractive one is?

Again, I don't see why we don't deserve punishment. We engage in the same sin Adam did every day. Tell me one reason why humans are unfailing enough to not be punished. Turn on the TV and I can show you hundreds of reasons why we should.


This comment was amusing. What do you think should happen? The people that do not follow God cannot be blissful at all because the bliss we will experience is centered around being around God. I mean, you want God to turn us all into a bunch of robots so no one can experience punishment. In that case, no one can experience bliss.

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"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Zetsu_Rocks

I like the idea of keeping it inside. However, there is no religion that promotes "keep it to yourself."

RNB

Keeping what inside? If you could write more then a sentence then MAYBE I could consider you intelligent.

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Hiraku

thats the individuals descision. A religion is just a group that forms a hierarchy and forms a force behind themselves and creates a section to themselves.

Best visual example i can say you can see for yourself is look at the last seven episodes of death note and you will see what i mean on the point of an organized religion does. Not to offend any one out there.

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Hiraku

The Look of Innocence

AnticitizenOne

I think he means that a religion shouldn't try to convince other religions to convert to it. I believe in this as well, if someone believes in a religion, you shouldn't try to tell them they're wrong and you're right. Hence, the whole reason I think this argument shouldn't exist. Nobody's ever going to prove that God doesn't exist to a Christian, nobody's going to convince an Atheist that God does exist, so on and so forth.

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RNB

All religion is somewhat organized. I can understand what you are saying, but if Religion isn't organized at all then it isn't a religion. I mean my interpretation of the Bible would not be in the format of any denomination, but I am still a Christian, and even in a broader term, Monotheistic.

Edit: Well that idea has been thrown out enough. Christianity should be that way anyways. As I said before, Jesus didn't force people to listen to him. The people who "answered his knocking" were the people who listened to him.

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus