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Old 12-27-2007, 11:53 PM   #121
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

Hiraku, I see what you are saying now. Isn't hard though for people to work towards the same goals (making the world a better place to live in) if they all have different personal beliefs?

Redneckboy, I was posting to Hiraku's post. We can keep this civil.
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:00 AM   #122
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

and there lies the problem of hardliners that cannot accept the idea of there being diffrent ways to believe in god. So as long as people seperate themselves into groups and then into sub groups with minor diffrences in beliefs of god and religion there is no way the world is going to become a better place.

So its better to keep religion to one self and just believe what you want.

Tell the truth i dont like going to church of any kind becuase there is no room to expand its all rigid and non comforming to the modern day situation a person and society find themselves just look at islam and there problems that answer,

so its better to avoid a fight by just keeping one beliefs of god to themselves and then just be at peace with all.
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:14 AM   #123
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiraku View Post
and there lies the problem of hardliners that cannot accept the idea of there being diffrent ways to believe in god. So as long as people seperate themselves into groups and then into sub groups with minor diffrences in beliefs of god and religion there is no way the world is going to become a better place.

So its better to keep religion to one self and just believe what you want.

Tell the truth i dont like going to church of any kind becuase there is no room to expand its all rigid and non comforming to the modern day situation a person and society find themselves just look at islam and there problems that answer,

so its better to avoid a fight by just keeping one beliefs of god to themselves and then just be at peace with all.
Now this is what I fail to understand. What makes you come to the conclusion that we are all worshiping the same God. I am all for not shoving my views in someone's face, but I don't understand how I can be worshiping the same God as a religion that believes that their God will kill you if you don't make a human sacrifice.
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:24 AM   #124
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
I don't understand why people do shit like this. I don't go around tell you that your being ignorant for not going to become a Christian. I don't see how atheists can whine like this. Most of them haven't even read the bible enough to understand it. Then I hear y'all telling me that I should hop off your jock and leave you alone. And I am all, "What the heck?" If you don't understand the idea that most of the faults you point out in others, are the same faults you have, then I suggest you read Catcher in the Rye.
It's an example that shows the logical inconsistency in many people's beliefs. Most people use proper logic when dealing with unverifiable entities; they just disregard this logic when dealing with the topic of God.

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Originally Posted by Zetsu_Rocks View Post
I find it funny that when people debate religion they try to disprove or prove the existence of a divine entity (or what have you) through "logic" of how or why it exists. It would be as if I was talking to someone who is schizophrenic. That person can see things that I can not. There is no way for me to prove it is or is not there. With religion, however, there is a framework that every religion is built on. In other words, there are rules and explanations to why and how things work. To disprove a religion you have to find faults in its framework, explanations. There is no way for me to disprove or prove that there is some type of governing entity within the universe (or whatever). But there are ways to disprove religions. Religions contain contradictions that can be found through the study of a religion's framework. All you have to do is look close enough to discover them. Shoot, sometimes you don't even have to look closely.
Logic is used to show error in stating that God exists, not to disprove Him. Logically, one wouldn't need to disprove a statement that has not supporting evidence, after all. Also, like I said above, this logic is something that is used by pretty much everyone, religious people included. They just ignore it in this particular scenario.

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
Secondly, I don't see the problem with God's morals at all. Really they come down to submitting myself to God first and then others, which I am expected to not do all the time, as explained in Hosea. The only ones that are even debatable to some people, at least I have heard, are the ideas that we should not engage in premarital sex or homosexuality. What I really don't understand is why this is a bad thing. They both are, to some people, pleasures that some people think are necessary to human existence. How greedy does one have to get before they start saying that they should bang every woman in the whole fucking world. How greedy do you have to be to not even be satisfactory with ones personality so instead you go by sexual arousal and feel that love is based on how sexually attractive one is?
He judges people based on their belief in something illogical over their merit as individuals. If I'm a morally upstanding person, but don't believe in God, I'm going to be punished after I die. Solely because I chose to be logical in life. That's pretty mean, to say the least.


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Again, I don't see why we don't deserve punishment. We engage in the same sin Adam did every day. Tell me one reason why humans are unfailing enough to not be punished. Turn on the TV and I can show you hundreds of reasons why we should.
What sin did Adam commit? He ate some fruit from some tree that God told him not to eat, right? Well, God never gave me any direct commands that I chose to disobey. I've never been on TV doing things deserving of punishment either. So I should be good, right? Because guilty by association isn't very fair, it's not like I can just stop being human. That's also pretty damn mean.

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This comment was amusing. What do you think should happen? The people that do not follow God cannot be blissful at all because the bliss we will experience is centered around being around God. I mean, you want God to turn us all into a bunch of robots so no one can experience punishment. In that case, no one can experience bliss.
It's more than possible to be a good, morally upstanding person without believing in God. It's also possible that I would enjoy God's company while chilling up in heaven or whatever even though I didn't chose to believe in Him while I was alive. It's definitely possible that I'd enjoy it more than eternal damnation, that's for sure. Punishing people solely for not believing in some illogical thing is definitely pretty damn mean.

Not trying to bust your balls, dude. You're really just the only one on the side of the opposition worth responding too, if you know what I mean. : )
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:06 AM   #125
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

God does exist, proof is: I touched his noodly appendage.


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Quote:
Secondly, I don't see the problem with God's morals at all. Really they come down to submitting myself to God first and then others, which I am expected to not do all the time, as explained in Hosea. The only ones that are even debatable to some people, at least I have heard, are the ideas that we should not engage in premarital sex or homosexuality. What I really don't understand is why this is a bad thing. They both are, to some people, pleasures that some people think are necessary to human existence. How greedy does one have to get before they start saying that they should bang every woman in the whole fucking world. How greedy do you have to be to not even be satisfactory with ones personality so instead you go by sexual arousal and feel that love is based on how sexually attractive one is?
What... why is gay love any more wrong than heterolove? I certainly do not think same-sex couples are based on lust and only lust. As for pre-marital sex, I don't get how that is morally wrong in any way, not every guy partaking in such a thing is banging chicks left and right. These morals repress natural urges. Why should a man feel ashamed when he masturbates? Who decides upon these morals anyway? If God says it to be disgusting, then it is disgusting. Say if another God from another culture deemed carrot-consuming to be immoral and disgusting, followers of that God would grimace when faced with a carrot.

What I don't like about religion is that they have to make the morals for you. Is it really that hard to create your own perception of what is right and what is wrong instead of getting it from some two thousand old sacred scripture which spout claims that cannot be logically proven?
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:23 AM   #126
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Mashed Potato View Post
What... why is gay love any more wrong than heterolove? I certainly do not think same-sex couples are based on lust and only lust.
It may be sort of a stareotype that isn't necessarily true. While I don't believe homosexual love is anything truly horrible, I discourage it. However, I'm not a person who would kill them just for what they are. That'd sort of be a paradox, they kill them because they're against God's will, but they go against the ten commandments themselves.
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As for pre-marital sex, I don't get how that is morally wrong in any way, not every guy partaking in such a thing is banging chicks left and right. These morals repress natural urges.
Discipline is something that everyone should have. That's all it takes to avoid premarital sex. Now it's not the worst thing in the world so long as it's protected, but teenage parents are often unfit to take care of their children.
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Originally Posted by Mashed Potato View Post
Why should a man feel ashamed when he masturbates? Who decides upon these morals anyway? If God says it to be disgusting, then it is disgusting. Say if another God from another culture deemed carrot-consuming to be immoral and disgusting. Followers of that God would grimace when faced with a carrot.
It's not the same thing. There's no reason why you shouldn't eat a carrot, it's good for you. I don't see how masturbation actually helps the person doing it.
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Originally Posted by Mashed Potato View Post
What I don't like about religion is that they have to make the morals for you. Is it really that hard to create your own perception of what is right and what is wrong instead of getting it from some two thousand old sacred scripture which spouts claims that cannot be logically proven?
When you are children, that's when you create your opinions and such, but it's also the time where you're impressionable and your logic is based upon flawed conceptions. Guidance is something that God gives you when you are a child.
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:40 AM   #127
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by AnticitizenOne View Post
It may be sort of a stareotype that isn't necessarily true. While I don't believe homosexual love is anything truly horrible, I discourage it. However, I'm not a person who would kill them just for what they are. That'd sort of be a paradox, they kill them because they're against God's will, but they go against the ten commandments themselves.
Why do you discourage such a thing? Is it not love nonetheless?


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Originally Posted by AnticitizenOne View Post
Discipline is something that everyone should have.
That is subjective -_- and discipline can be shown through a variety of ways, not just abstinence from pre-marital sex.

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That's all it takes to avoid premarital sex. Now it's not the worst thing in the world so long as it's protected, but teenage parents are often unfit to take care of their children.
There are loads of adults who participate in pre-marital sex. And they are perfectably able to raise children.


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Originally Posted by AnticitizenOne View Post
It's not the same thing. There's no reason why you shouldn't eat a carrot, it's good for you. I don't see how masturbation actually helps the person doing it.
I regard it as a fit analogy, as masturbation has proven to be healthy. In the same sense as a carrot, it is good for you. It has been known to relieve stress and "sexual frustration" :P. Not to mention that an orgasm is one of the finest joys of life. cite1 cite2 cite3


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When you are children, that's when you create your opinions and such, but it's also the time where you're impressionable and your logic is based upon flawed conceptions. Guidance is something that God gives you when you are a child.
Then you reach adulthood, where you finally grow up and shake off those silly fear-based beliefs which have been conditioned into you by religious influences. Adulthood is when you think for yourself, not in fear of some omnipotent creator society wants you to believe so you can behave and obey.
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:56 AM   #128
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
It's an example that shows the logical inconsistency in many people's beliefs. Most people use proper logic when dealing with unverifiable entities; they just disregard this logic when dealing with the topic of God.
Now I may have asked this question before, but what makes a logical view on something so accurate that it is the only way I can look at something? Now you can't tell me it is that accurate of a view because how the heck could you prove that? It would only be illogical for logic to be looked at as perfect.


Quote:
Logic is used to show error in stating that God exists, not to disprove Him. Logically, one wouldn't need to disprove a statement that has not supporting evidence, after all. Also, like I said above, this logic is something that is used by pretty much everyone, religious people included. They just ignore it in this particular scenario.
Though wouldn't that same logic show error in stating that God doesn't exist?


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He judges people based on their belief in something illogical over their merit as individuals. If I'm a morally upstanding person, but don't believe in God, I'm going to be punished after I die. Solely because I chose to be logical in life. That's pretty mean, to say the least.
It isn't mean. Like I said before, logic isn't the only lens you can look through to view something. Anyways God doesn't just want somebody who is morally correct. He wants people who are willing to serve him. Now in serving him he would like you to follow his morals, but God is really after a heart filled with love. His morals are all based off of a loving heart.


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What sin did Adam commit? He ate some fruit from some tree that God told him not to eat, right? Well, God never gave me any direct commands that I chose to disobey. I've never been on TV doing things deserving of punishment either. So I should be good, right? Because guilty by association isn't very fair, it's not like I can just stop being human. That's also pretty damn mean.
Adam disobeyed God. That was the sin. He became selfish and put his needs before God's. God did give you a command that you are choosing to disobey. Everybody commits some of the sin that is mentioned in the Bible. If you ever have looked at a woman lustfully then you have sinned. Pretty much every person who has a dick does that. Now on top of this you neglect the only way out, submitting you life to God, whether it be illogical or not. So now your sins carry a burden on you, which sets you up for punishment.

Quote:
It's more than possible to be a good, morally upstanding person without believing in God. It's also possible that I would enjoy God's company while chilling up in heaven or whatever even though I didn't chose to believe in Him while I was alive. It's definitely possible that I'd enjoy it more than eternal damnation, that's for sure. Punishing people solely for not believing in some illogical thing is definitely pretty damn mean.
Again God doesn't care about how good you are. He wants a "servants heart." I am not saying you would completely hate it, but in heaven I think, (now I don't know the reference,) it says that in heaven we will be worshiping God and serving him for eternity. If you don't have a "servants heart" then how can you enjoy that. After all you never experienced what eternal damnation is like so it wouldn't look bad to you. I mean it didn't look bad to you on earth.

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Not trying to bust your balls, dude. You're really just the only one on the side of the opposition worth responding too, if you know what I mean. : )
I got no problem with that. I am tired of the idiots in here spamming it up. Somebody has to get this thing back on track.


Quote:
What... why is gay love any more wrong than heterolove? I certainly do not think same-sex couples are based on lust and only lust.
It is selfish. If gay couples aren't based on lust then what are they based on? I mean couldn't they find a personality that is compatible with them in the opposite sex? Probably. It has to be based on lust because they go beyond personality and look for what is mostly sexually attractive. Now I am not going to tell you this and then tell you hetero-love is always the opposite. There are plenty of heterosexual couples out there who base their relationship off of lust and that is wrong too.

Quote:
As for pre-marital sex, I don't get how that is morally wrong in any way, not every guy partaking in such a thing is banging chicks left and right. These morals repress natural urges.
How is premarital sex not morally wrong according to the Bible? You are having sex with somebody else's spouse. A lot of people want their spouse to be a virgin before they marry them. We can't just be selfish and say, "Well I am gonna bang you, and then tomorrow I'll see you, and then..." It is being greedy is what it is. I am sure most of us politically interested people can understand why greed is so bad. Secondly the natural urge can be repressed mentally. It is called holding it back. Maybe one should learn how to control their mind a bit. Maybe meditate or burn some incense, I don't know. The one major problem with this world right now is that no one feels like harness in the ultimate weapon, the human brain.

Quote:
What I don't like about religion is that they have to make the morals for you. Is it really that hard to create your own perception of what is right and what is wrong instead of getting it from some two thousand old sacred scripture which spout claims that cannot be logically proven?
But that is selfishness. Why don't you feel that someone is more powerful then you?
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:56 AM   #129
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

the only way to know if god is true is it to see it! or some big prove if not the world will never know
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:12 AM   #130
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
It is selfish. If gay couples aren't based on lust then what are they based on?
Love. Same as any heterosexual couple.


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I mean couldn't they find a personality that is compatible with them in the opposite sex? Probably. It has to be based on lust because they go beyond personality and look for what is mostly sexually attractive. Now I am not going to tell you this and then tell you hetero-love is always the opposite. There are plenty of heterosexual couples out there who base their relationship off of lust and that is wrong too.
I think for love to be full, there has to be an element of lust in it. Actually scrap that! lust is just a stronger verson of love! Without lust in a relationship, it is practically dead.
Think about this, some people do care about sexual attraction, the same way you care about intellectual attraction. Why is your way of thinking more correct than those different to it?


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How is premarital sex not morally wrong according to the Bible? You are having sex with somebody else's spouse.
Uh... that is adultery, a totally different thing.


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A lot of people want their spouse to be a virgin before they marry them.
May I ask why? Are they more attractive as virgins? I never get when people say that.


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We can't just be selfish and say, "Well I am gonna bang you, and then tomorrow I'll see you, and then..." It is being greedy is what it is.
It is not greedy at all! Well, not greed by the official definition anyway. Many people have non-marital committed relationships. pre-marital sex is not the same as a one night stand.



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I am sure most of us politically interested people can understand why greed is so bad.
Are you implying that I'm not politically interested... 'cause that's not the case. o_-

Quote:
Secondly the natural urge can be repressed mentally. It is called holding it back. Maybe one should learn how to control their mind a bit. Maybe meditate or burn some incense, I don't know. The one major problem with this world right now is that no one feels like harness in the ultimate weapon, the human brain.
But why would anyone want to repress them?! They are natural and they are healthy, for petes sake! You only think it is wrong because society makes it out to be wrong. Give one logical explanation as to why masturbation is wrong, providing your moral definiton of "wrong". Until then, wake up!
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:21 AM   #131
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
Now I may have asked this question before, but what makes a logical view on something so accurate that it is the only way I can look at something? Now you can't tell me it is that accurate of a view because how the heck could you prove that? It would only be illogical for logic to be looked at as perfect.
The only non-logical way of looking at something is religious thinking, which is baseless.


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Though wouldn't that same logic show error in stating that God doesn't exist?
No, because you have to prove God exists, because belief in God is baseless.

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It isn't mean. Like I said before, logic isn't the only lens you can look through to view something. Anyways God doesn't just want somebody who is morally correct. He wants people who are willing to serve him. Now in serving him he would like you to follow his morals, but God is really after a heart filled with love. His morals are all based off of a loving heart.
[/quote

Wait, now you are contradicting yourself. Does he want a kind heart of a mindless servant?

Quote:
Adam disobeyed God. That was the sin. He became selfish and put his needs before God's. God did give you a command that you are choosing to disobey. Everybody commits some of the sin that is mentioned in the Bible. If you ever have looked at a woman lustfully then you have sinned. Pretty much every person who has a dick does that. Now on top of this you neglect the only way out, submitting you life to God, whether it be illogical or not. So now your sins carry a burden on you, which sets you up for punishment.
Pretty large punishment. So the only way to redeem ourselves is to become a mindless servant?
Again God doesn't care about how good you are. He wants a "servants heart." I am not saying you would completely hate it, but in heaven I think, (now I don't know the reference,) it says that in heaven we will be worshiping God and serving him for eternity. If you don't have a "servants heart" then how can you enjoy that. After all you never experienced what eternal damnation is like so it wouldn't look bad to you. I mean it didn't look bad to you on earth.
[/quote]

So you really are saying that God only wants mindless servants, and that the morality of a person doesn't matter.

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I got no problem with that. I am tired of the idiots in here spamming it up. Somebody has to get this thing back on track.
Exactly

Quote:
It is selfish. If gay couples aren't based on lust then what are they based on? I mean couldn't they find a personality that is compatible with them in the opposite sex? Probably. It has to be based on lust because they go beyond personality and look for what is mostly sexually attractive. Now I am not going to tell you this and then tell you hetero-love is always the opposite. There are plenty of heterosexual couples out there who base their relationship off of lust and that is wrong too.
People are unique. Maybe the personality that someone loves is in another person of the same sex. So? I admit that I find it disturbing, probably because of my cultural bias, but there is nothing wrong with it.

Quote:
How is premarital sex not morally wrong according to the Bible? You are having sex with somebody else's spouse. A lot of people want their spouse to be a virgin before they marry them. We can't just be selfish and say, "Well I am gonna bang you, and then tomorrow I'll see you, and then..." It is being greedy is what it is. I am sure most of us politically interested people can understand why greed is so bad. Secondly the natural urge can be repressed mentally. It is called holding it back. Maybe one should learn how to control their mind a bit. Maybe meditate or burn some incense, I don't know. The one major problem with this world right now is that no one feels like harness in the ultimate weapon, the human brain.
What if you will marry that person later? Anyways, I personally will be abstinent until marriage (more because of my pride, paranoia of manipulation, and fear of STDs than anything else) but as long as the act is consensual, I see nothing wrong with it. People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies.
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:30 AM   #132
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies.
I agree with this particular quote. The government should GTFO of our lives when it comes to our own sexual activities. Same with religion. I do not want to pope to organise my sexual life when he has hardly any experience in the matter!
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:40 AM   #133
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Mashed Potato View Post
Love. Same as any heterosexual couple.
It can't be based off of pure love. They went for the opposite sex for sexual attraction, not because that was the only person in the world that was compatible to him.


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I think for love to be full, there has to be an element of lust in it. Actually scrap that! lust is just a stronger verson of love! Without lust in a relationship, it is practically dead.
Think about this, some people do care about sexual attraction, the same way you care about intellectual attraction. Why is your way of thinking more correct than those different to it?
That is not true. According to the Bible love is "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." "Love is not self-seeking," is mentioned in here and lust is self-seeking so it cannot be love, according to the Bible. I mean lust is bad whether it be heterosexual, or homosexual. My way of thinking, I believe, is more correct then basing a relationship off of lust because "love never fails." Lust does it is quite obvious with all these divorces going on in our culture.


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Uh... that is adultery, a totally different thing.
No premarital sex is adultery. The person you have sex with before you are married could be someone else's future wife. Therefore it is adultery.

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May I ask why? Are they more attractive as virgins? I never get when people say that.
It doesn't matter why. What matters is that we should not be selfish and we should respect their views. We shouldn't put our views above another's like that.

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It is not greedy at all! Well, not greed by the official definition anyway. Many people have non-marital committed relationships. pre-marital sex is not the same as a one night stand.
A one night stand is premarital sex. You have sex before marriage, which is what pre-before, marital -marriage, sex - sexual intercourse. It must be greedy if you don't care about the person who may marry that person.


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Are you implying that I'm not politically interested... 'cause that's not the case. o_-
No. I am just trying to say that most people who are interested in politics have seen greed's effects on people.


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But why would anyone want to repress them?! They are natural and they are healthy, for petes sake! You only think it is wrong because society makes it out to be wrong. Give one logical explanation as to why masturbation is wrong, providing your moral definition of "wrong". Until then, wake up!
Listen. When you hate someone so much and want to kill them, that is a natural urge. When you are low on money and see a something you want in a corner store and you feel like stealing it, that is a natural urge. Just because it is a natural urge, it doesn't mean it is good to follow through with it. Now I understand the idea that pretty much every male will masturbate sometime in his life, but I think God would rather us try to fight that urge then just let our lust keep piling up like that.

As for why masturbation is wrong, well I won't say the act of masturbation is wrong, but the fact that you usually have to think of a women lustfully is wrong because it is adultery. A lot of people wouldn't like the idea of some person masturbating to their wife.

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The only non-logical way of looking at something is religious thinking, which is baseless.
Logically prove that.

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No, because you have to prove God exists, because belief in God is baseless.
But don't you also have to prove God does not exist for the state of the argument?

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So you really are saying that God only wants mindless servants, and that the morality of a person doesn't matter.
No. This is because a mindless servant of him would do what he asks and he asks that we should not be mindless, but we should follow him out of our own will, through love. Not only that, but a true servant of God would have God's morality, which God also likes, but like I said before, God cares more about the heart then anything.

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People are unique. Maybe the personality that someone loves is in another person of the same sex. So? I admit that I find it disturbing, probably because of my cultural bias, but there is nothing wrong with it.
But why can't that person find a compatible woman? You can't tell me that there is just one perfect fit for a person. Love is really more then just being compatible. Love is the idea that whatever that person does, they will never forsake them.

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What if you will marry that person later? Anyways, I personally will be abstinent until marriage (more because of my pride, paranoia of manipulation, and fear of STDs than anything else) but as long as the act is consensual, I see nothing wrong with it. People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies.
That type of thinking, "What if I marry the person later," is a dangerous mindset. For one it is just trying to avoid discipline by finding an easy way out. I mean God isn't trying to control people, which is why he gave people the option to not follow him.

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I agree with this particular quote. The government should GTFO of our lives when it comes to our own sexual activities. Same with religion. I do not want to pope to organise my sexual life when he has hardly any experience in the matter!
I am an anarchist. How could I not agree to this? Though I am a bit different then most anarchists.
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Last edited by RNB; 12-28-2007 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:15 PM   #134
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
It can't be based off of pure love. They went for the opposite sex for sexual attraction, not because that was the only person in the world that was compatible to him.

That is not true. According to the Bible love is "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." "Love is not self-seeking," is mentioned in here and lust is self-seeking so it cannot be love, according to the Bible. I mean lust is bad whether it be heterosexual, or homosexual. My way of thinking, I believe, is more correct then basing a relationship off of lust because "love never fails." Lust does it is quite obvious with all these divorces going on in our culture.
Lust by proper definition means "great desire". I think your definition of lust is sexual desire (which is somehow wrong according to you and your God. I have no beef against it. There is no logical reason to be against such a thing). BTW stop quoting and referring to the bible, it has proven to be an unreputable source. Ever tried reading leviticus? You claim to be against a totalitarian government, yet you worship a dogmatic bible packed full with hatred?



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No premarital sex is adultery. The person you have sex with before you are married could be someone else's future wife. Therefore it is adultery.
Have... to think... of a good analogy....
Technically it isn't adultery. There are so many things wrong with the definition you've provided. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a logical fallacy...
"Adultery is voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and one who is not his or her spouse."
Does it say "person that could be married in the near future"?
That's like saying we shouldn't abort a child because it could grow up to be a future scientist. (Which is bullshit because we have no way of knowing. The same is with whether a person will marry or not). And by the time they have married, the word "adultery" would only be valid if her then husband happens to have sex with another woman.


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A one night stand is premarital sex. You have sex before marriage, which is what pre-before, marital -marriage, sex - sexual intercourse. It must be greedy if you don't care about the person who may marry that person.
A one night stand is premarital sex, but pre-marital sex isn't always a one night stand. Get it?
Btw a HUGE generalisation and misuse of the word greedy. I don't think I can convince you any further, you are adamant about the bibles morals.


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No. I am just trying to say that most people who are interested in politics have seen greed's effects on people.
That is monetary greed, a totally different type. Plus I do not find lust to be greedy. Stop treating your opinions as if they were fact...


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Listen. When you hate someone so much and want to kill them, that is a natural urge. When you are low on money and see a something you want in a corner store and you feel like stealing it, that is a natural urge. Just because it is a natural urge, it doesn't mean it is good to follow through with it. Now I understand the idea that pretty much every male will masturbate sometime in his life, but I think God would rather us try to fight that urge then just let our lust keep piling up like that.
Yes I agree with you on that point, but the thing is, masturbation is not a bad thing!?

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As for why masturbation is wrong, well I won't say the act of masturbation is wrong, but the fact that you usually have to think of a women lustfully is wrong because it is adultery. A lot of people wouldn't like the idea of some person masturbating to their wife.
What about masturbating to your own wife? Is it wrong?

I guess there is no point debating with someone who is adamant about their morals... just as long as you don't try and force it upon others >D There is no universal code for morals, after all. I'll tell you one thing... i've never met a religious anarchist before.
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:43 PM   #135
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
Now I may have asked this question before, but what makes a logical view on something so accurate that it is the only way I can look at something? Now you can't tell me it is that accurate of a view because how the heck could you prove that? It would only be illogical for logic to be looked at as perfect.
Are you suggesting that we disregard the use of logic because it might somehow, someway potentially be flawed? Now, would we apply this to everything, or just the topic of the existence of God? Come on, you've got to see where I'm going with this, dude. Nothing beats out logic in a debate, or in these types of situations. Especially not blind faith and baseless, unjustifiable claims.

Now for your own personal private beliefs, feel free to go ape-shit crazy with any illogical shit you want. That stuff just doesn't work too well in a debate. Sorry, not going to let this devolve into some far-fetched philosophical crap-fest. I hate that shit. Logic is what we use in debates. ; )

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Though wouldn't that same logic show error in stating that God doesn't exist?
Well, yeah. Kinda. Logically, one cannot state that god positively, definitely, no way-no how doesn't exist. What most intelligent athiests would say is that his existence is equally probable as any imaginary, made-up, completely bullshitted fairy tale creature that I pull straight out my ass though. You know, the type of things that we normally go about our lives under the assumption that they just aren't there. Assuming non-existence is logical, and it's logic that everyone, including you, uses.

Unless you believe that there is a invisible gnome village under my bed that vanishes whenever you try to touch it, and a magic multi-dimensional space lizard eats my garbage every other tuesday. Don't believe me? Then you're using the same logic that I'm applying to the existence of God. He's equally probable, after all.


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It isn't mean. Like I said before, logic isn't the only lens you can look through to view something. Anyways God doesn't just want somebody who is morally correct. He wants people who are willing to serve him. Now in serving him he would like you to follow his morals, but God is really after a heart filled with love. His morals are all based off of a loving heart.
Oh, so he just wants sheep? He doesn't care if you're a good person, he just wants you to be a huge tool? That's interesting.
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Adam disobeyed God. That was the sin. He became selfish and put his needs before God's. God did give you a command that you are choosing to disobey. Everybody commits some of the sin that is mentioned in the Bible. If you ever have looked at a woman lustfully then you have sinned. Pretty much every person who has a dick does that. Now on top of this you neglect the only way out, submitting you life to God, whether it be illogical or not. So now your sins carry a burden on you, which sets you up for punishment.
God actually told Adam not to eat that shit. Key here being that this command came directly from God. God never told me to do shit, ever. If he did, I'd definitely consider doing whatever he asked or I'd gladly accept the consequences for disobeying him. I've never received any command from God though, so it's not exactly the same thing Adam went through. Protip: The Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by dudes.

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Again God doesn't care about how good you are. He wants a "servants heart." I am not saying you would completely hate it, but in heaven I think, (now I don't know the reference,) it says that in heaven we will be worshiping God and serving him for eternity. If you don't have a "servants heart" then how can you enjoy that. After all you never experienced what eternal damnation is like so it wouldn't look bad to you. I mean it didn't look bad to you on earth.
I dunno about you, but eternal damnation just sounds like it might suck a bit. Can you honestly say that it's fair that I'd be punished for simply choosing to be logical about my beliefs during my life? He's basically saying "Logic? Fuck that! ETERNAL DAMNATION'D LOL!" That's fucking lame no matter how you slice it, dude.
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It is selfish. If gay couples aren't based on lust then what are they based on?
Just want to comment on this too. They can be based on the same exact things heterosexual relationships are based on. The only difference between the two is that your partner either has a dong or a vagoo. That's it. Saying one is selfish when the other isn't is baseless and wrong. If anything, the idea that you should disregard the love you feel for someone if they happen to be of the same sex is far more superficial then the idea that people should be able to be with whoever they want. God, in this case, is being the superficial guy here. Not the homosexuals.
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