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Old 02-04-2008, 05:40 PM   #601
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Why not bring in Trey for this one since the other guys have been absent from action. But I would say that give atleast a 24-hour point to respond for debates. After that it will go to the next person to participate or the next in the debate to make arguments?
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:02 PM   #602
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Whos debating who? and what about? I'm confused.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:07 PM   #603
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaaraofthesand.1234 View Post
Whos debating who? and what about? I'm confused.
The new teams are formed. The debate will go on until stopped or one side gives up.

Team Blue
The Special One
HinataFanX

Team Red
SilverYondiame
liuaishan

The debate will have this topic:
Team 8 vs Team 10 pre TS. The arena will be a hole KN4 made fighting Orochimaru, lulz.
Team Blue will represent the Kurenai Team, and Team Red will represent the Asuma Team.

I would urge you all to read liuaishan's post.
She explained it nicely:

The topic will be opened by The Special One, then Silver counters it, then Dagoro, them liuaishan, and so on. There is NO posting in between. Meaning, even though you had an argument to counter someone else's post, if it's not your turn to post, then you shut up. BUT, you can point it to your partner with your next post.

GO
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:43 PM   #604
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

You just copied and paste his statements. Almost like you want us to copy and paste the material again.lol
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:45 PM   #605
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Special One View Post
You just copied and paste his statements. Almost like you want us to copy and paste the material again.lol
lol no i just didnt feel like putting it in my own words.. its easier this way >.< but if you guys want to refresh and copy your statements feel free =D
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:00 PM   #606
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Currently posting, thanks for letting me join.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:03 PM   #607
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

great! can't wait to read it
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:25 PM   #608
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

It finally begins. Dun,dun,dun,dun...lol
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:48 PM   #609
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Quote:
Well sense SO pointed out their skills, I'll open up my counter argument with the skill set of Team 10 and their advantages.

Shikamaru, as we all know is a genius and has incredible tactics for on-the-spot decision making. Which allows him to have the advantage at the first approach in any battle and puts his advesary at a disadvantage in decision making. Not only does he work out for one situation, but plans out for three to four moves of his opponent and his team in several situations to remain incontrol of the situation. He has been exposed to genjutsu, and has shown to know how to dispell genjutsu at different levels. He was able to avoid Kabuto's genjutsu in part one and then was still able to use his intellect while being in a genjutsu when taking on one of teh sound four. The only draw back is that he lacked sufficient powerr to accompany his intellect. But he compensates with his brain and clever use of kage mane. He can use teh shadows of anything and anywhere along with his analytical prowess to adjust the perimeter of the shadow but maintain the area. That alone shows that he must had a good sense of teh battle arena as well. Placing Shikamaru as a threat to any opponent. To further his abilities, he pays attention to every action of his opponent and ally and adjust for them all. So in the team, he is able to plan the success of each person.

Ino has the ability to take control of someone's mind. Although her body is helpless once in that state, that skill is only in use when given teh right opporunity for the opponent to be held still. Coupled with Shikamaru's intellect to position the opponent at the right time, and with Choji's strength and size manipulation, the success of that ability is 95% accurate. Aside from that skill, we saw in the Chuunin exam that she possessed decent taijutsu to be on par with Sakura. It is safe to say that given her equal footing with Sakura in part one, that she is as good with chakra manipulation to increase one's battling skills. This is also supported with her use of cutting her hair and then using chakra to lock Sakura in place and then use her mind switching jutsu to invade Sakura's body. Teaming up with a genius and a powerhouse complement her skills as a decent shinobi to be upgraded to a threat for a team such as Team 8.

Choji is the strongest of the rookies. he has been stated to be physically the strongest of them all. That alone means that going hand to hand with him is dangerous for anyone on team 8. With teh power he packs, he doesn't need speed to catch offguard. Tie in his strength with his size manipulation that only increases his strength, and you have a guy that is unmatched in power. This allows him to protect Shikamaru if needed for time to analyze any situation and come up with a counter attack, and for Ino to conceal herself until the time is right for her to use her mind switch ability and take over an opponent. Choji is meat tank jutsu is more powerful than Kiba and Akamaru's combination gasuga (mind spelling plz), and can be held for longer periood of time. That way in a match up of those moves, Kiba and Akamaru would only be deflected and damaged from the deflection instead of dealing damage. It is in that jutsu that Choji does possess great speed to go with the power. He also carries a good supply of soldier pills and other food unique to his clan that allow for short burst of power, speed, or chakra supply. So any situation taht may call for more power, speed, or chakra than what he is putting out can be supplimented with a pill that he takes. he can also use these for his comrades to increase their abilities as well. With foods that can increase his abilities 10x, that is put to use by Shikamaru - spells the downfall for opponents such as team 8 that would already have their hands full to get through the "wall" was choji would present before eating the pills.

(I"m not sure if Asuma can be used in this team since I don' know if we are talking about just the genin or their Jounin mentor as well)

Asuma from what we saw in part one was able to square off against Kisame in part one. We know that his chakra blades allow him to battle and cut through other weapons. We also know that he has experience with genjutsu since he is jounin status and has worked closely with Kurenai so he may have detailed knowledge of how she uses genjutsu and how her battle tactics are. We also knwo that he could use his chakra blades to extend his reach in battle, so he had short to mid range battling skills. He only increases the odds of opponents not getting in range to have true combat with his rookies. In combat tactics, he stands as the one that would be seen have faced while the others are concealed and enact their roles governed by Shikamaru.

All together, team 10 possess the most diverse group to handle situation second to team 7. A powerhouse that can deal severe damage and defend for his comrades, Choji is the second line of defense or offense to be dealth with. And the only way around that is to overpower him - which would be impossible for team 8 given that he can further increase his power, speed, and chakra with food unique to this clan that are used for situation that are needed. With Shikamaru at the helm for the plan and tactics seconded by Asuma that has shown high intellect in tactics by playing Shouji with Shikamaru, results in ellaborate plans that are thought fully out for the entire battle and further allowance for on the spot changes that increase success when new abilities are shown. Which would only be further aided by Choji that can hold off the opponent for more time. And Ino whose skill would come in handy at best from bein concealed can take advantage of opponent that is unsuspecting. She can immobolize an oponent for any of the other threee to finish off. Another things that aides her is that her jutsu can not be detected, so that makes it even more dangerous. The success of her jutsu comes in play with Shikamaru's Kage mane that can immobolize or finish off opponents as well. All three rookies can immobolize an opponent and Choji, Shikamaru and Asuma can defeat (kill, wound) an opponent . With those skills linked up in teamwork, there is no way to defeat team 10 expect for excessive overpowering that team 10 has no ability to do so.

I conclude my opening statement
For this I will include team leaders.

I'll begin by posting possible counters to each of team 10's members.

Shikamaru: As we know, Shikamaru is a tactical genius and has prowess in that field, however, it has been shown that he can't fully back this up with chakra supply, and runs low very quickly. As far as we know, he's the only member on team 10 that can successfully counter Genjutsu, as Ino and Chouji were both effected during the Chuunin exams by Kabuto's. This makes him, factually, the only meber of Team 10 that can counter genjutsu well enough to stand a chance against Kurenai, whom we know is a genjutsu master, and we know genjutsu can effect large numbers of people. With a very limited chakra supply, and without the aid of his team, he would stand little to no chance of defense against a mind like Shino's which is almost as tactical and efficient, and Kiba and Akamru's double team. Admittedly, Hinata wouldn't fair well agaisnt him, but that's expected of a close range fighter agaisnt a mid-range. All-in-all, Shikamaru is the biggest challenge for team 8 to face. If Genjutsu is to be left out, Shino could take him on and they'd be very closely matched, and Shino doesn't have to move to use his bugs, and has been shown to be very adept at using bug clones. Also, Shikamaru has to infuse his shadow with chakra. Shino's bugs could eat this, making his Kage Mane and Strangulation virtually useless.

Ino: This is very little contest. All she had pre-time skip was her mind-control jutsu and some taijutsu. She would most likely be more evenly matched with Hinata (Kiba and Akamaru's double team would leave her mind-control useless if they come from both sides, and Shino would beat her, no explanation needed), despite Ino ebing mid range, her mid-range attack would be virtually useless to someone with equal or superior taijutsu and chakra sight. As Ino must send her "mind" out of her body through jutsu, she must channel chakra, and possibly send it out in a burst of chakra. for someone with byakugan, this becomes incredibly easy to dodge. Shikamaru is her onyl chance of capturing somebody, and he'd already have his hands full trying to avoid being drained of chakra. This is all, of course, if she can even avoid being trapped in a genjutsu by Kurenai.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:48 PM   #610
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Cont.

Chouji: He is the strength of thr group. Without him, Shikamaru doesn't have added protection and Ino is virtually helpless to rely on the rest of her team. All in all, the most he could do is distract one of the other team's members. The most likely face-off is against Kiba. Now, with his partial multi-size jutsu, he may be able to do a bit more damage, but in a double team, it wouldn't be too big, especially with Gatsuuga. His best choice of weapon, esspecially against Kiba, is his meat tank. this brings me to the Gatsuuga vs. Meat Tank arguement. We can't say which is better, but I'm willing to bet that when faced off, they'd match well, but Kiba and akamaru would be worse for wear, but it'd be a lot worse if Kiba and Aka took their soldier pills. Then again, it could also be argued about Chouji's pills. At that point, I think Kiba and Akamaru could use Garuuga, which is incincible unless it meets an absolute blockade such as Sakon/Ukon's. Chouji would not be able to survive unless he uses that last red pill. This, if he survived, would, worst case scenario, result in the eventual loss of both. If Chouji won this, he'd quickly be disabled by that pill, whcih I maintain is his only defense against Kiba and Akamaru's Garuuga. Otherwise, Kiba and Akamaru would win, as they were easily still able to move after that attack, even though it was blocked. If it were successful against Chouji, they'd come out of it with only a bit of diminished chakra. Either way, Chouji becomes disabled. This doesn't even include his being effected by genjutsu, which is only nulled when he is in meat tank form.

As for Asuma, he'd go up agaisnt Kurenai. She's quick, and her genjutsu would effect him before he could even attack her. If she attacked to kill, he'd be down without putting a scratch on her. Genjutsu would beat Taijutsu. I'll go into more detail if needed, but it kind of speaks for itself. This leaves her to help the genin.

Of course, this entire thing focuses on the characters going up agaisnt their best matches, and it doesn't account for variable of if some other character went up agaisnt each other. I'm simply putting them up against their best matches by skill.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:10 PM   #611
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Goodwork...
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:20 PM   #612
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Thanks, and I was just quoting for reference and benefit of others since the last arguement was quite a few pages ago.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:14 PM   #613
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

great work hinata fan x so organized unlike me lol.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:35 PM   #614
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Thanks. lol. I like to be precise, accurate, and organized. It can get kinda long-winded at times, but reading unorganized stuff is something I hate, so I try to avoid that.

I love to debate a little too much, and now you can all see why I was itching to go. XD
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:47 AM   #615
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Team Red (cough did I mention I hate red :P cough)
featuring: SilverYondiame/liuaishan
defending:Team 10: Shikamaru, Ino, Choji, Asuma
arena: a hole KN4 made fighting Orochimaru (and shrike's: “lulz” :P)

- first: I apologise as of now for the wall of text and for the double post.
- aaaand, I can't promise I'll make it as organized as HinataFan's. XD
- please use numbers in the spoiler to see where I start countering.
- and I'll go a bit further than best matches, and proceed into introducing battle strategy. (and I expect it to be ruined by TSO's brain in a second *sob*)


Quote:
Originally Posted by HinataFanX View Post
For this I will include team leaders.

I'll begin by posting possible counters to each of team 10's members.

Shikamaru: As we know, Shikamaru is a tactical genius and has prowess in that field, however, it has been shown that he can't fully back this up with chakra supply, and runs low very quickly. (1.)As far as we know, he's the only member on team 10 that can successfully counter Genjutsu, as Ino and Chouji were both effected during the Chuunin exams by Kabuto's. This makes him, factually, the only meber of Team 10 that can counter genjutsu well enough to stand a chance against Kurenai, whom we know is a genjutsu master, and we know genjutsu can effect large numbers of people. With a very limited chakra supply, and without the aid of his team, he would stand little to no chance of defense against a mind like (2.)Shino's which is almost as tactical and efficient, and Kiba and Akamru's double team. Admittedly, Hinata wouldn't fair well agaisnt him, but that's expected of a close range fighter agaisnt a mid-range. (3.)All-in-all, Shikamaru is the biggest challenge for team 8 to face. If Genjutsu is to be left out, Shino could take him on and they'd be very closely matched, and (4.) Shino doesn't have to move to use his bugs, and has been shown to be very adept at using bug clones. Also, Shikamaru has to infuse his shadow with chakra. Shino's bugs could eat this, making his Kage Mane and Strangulation virtually useless.

(5.)Ino: This is very little contest. All she had pre-time skip was her mind-control jutsu and some taijutsu. She would most likely be more evenly matched with Hinata (Kiba and Akamaru's double team would leave her mind-control useless if they come from both sides, and Shino would beat her, no explanation needed), despite Ino ebing mid range, her mid-range attack would be virtually useless to someone with equal or superior taijutsu and chakra sight. As Ino must send her "mind" out of her body through jutsu, she must channel chakra, and possibly send it out in a burst of chakra. for someone with byakugan, this becomes incredibly easy to dodge. Shikamaru is her onyl chance of capturing somebody, (6.)and he'd already have his hands full trying to avoid being drained of chakra. This is all, of course, if she can even avoid being trapped in a genjutsu by Kurenai.


1. You mentioned Shikamaru is the only one who can detect Genjutsu. But since you added Kurenai, why not add Asuma. It's hard for me to believe that a Jounin can't detect Genjutsu. (Gai and Kakashi did). On top of it all, Asuma knows Kurenai and her fighting style (we even got an image of their fight against Itachi). To me it is very easy to assume that Asuma can counter Genjutsu too. Make that 2 people in Team 10 to counter Genjutsu. One defends the team of any sudden attacks, I'll have Asuma, while Shika quickly goes and releases the Genjutsu from the other 2. (Just like Sakura released the the Gejutsu for Naruto and she didn't need for Shika :P) Now they are all prepared to attack again.

2. Shino might be very tactical/strategical, but he is not at the same level like Shika. (at least I haven't heard it anywhere stated in the manga yet). You can be sure Shika has a larger amount of further steps planned for the battle than Shino. When Shino runs out of plans, Shika can still use his reserve. I'll include Asuma as pretty smart too for a Shouji player, whom I believe Shika doesn't consider average and plays with him all the time. I'll assume further that in battle strategy Asuma > Kurenai, and Shika > Shino (but I can't be 100% sure for Asuma and Kurenai).

3. It might be that Shika is the biggest challenge for Team 8, but don't forget that this is a teamwork, and he's as genius as to make full use of Ino and Choji in the same time, plus Asuma as major backup. All three kids are very well paired for a teamwork since they have a large variety of attacks. Team 8's large speciality is tracking. And being that the arena is a hole that Naruto/Orochimaru made, then I don't see much use of the tracking. Kiba's smell and Hinata's byakugan will need another use than tracking. The arena needs the sun to be on a side to reveal a lot of shadow, and is a god place for Ino to cast the mind jutsu, since the opponents can only run but not hide, and Choji can do a lot of devastation since no forests or other tall obstacles stop him. This would make hiding impossible for both teams.

4. Shino alone vs Shika (at the end of your Shika arguments) fails coz I already proved he won't ever be alone due to 2 Genjutsu counters in the team. Now, If the area is a large hole, Shino is in disadvantage coz it's a bit hard to hide himself and leave a clone to fight (unless Naruto left some boulders somewhere, which I kinda doubt). Shino has to hide underground. Can he? Kiba maybe and if Kiba makes holes, he'll give Shika more chances to enhance his shadows and to make more battle strategies hiding things/weapons/bombs or making traps out of those holes. Kiba must think twice if he wants to do that. Now, if Shika fails to cast a shadow:
a) due to insufficient sun (which can be countered: if shino sends bugs, shika will use the bugs' shadow to enlarge his shadow)
b) due to Shino eating his chakra
then: Shika can use it as a “pretended” disadvantage that he's struggling to cast Shino, making Shino believe he's one step farther, while in the next moment he's cast by Ino's mind technique. (exclude the others, they are temporarily busy finding a way how to run from the raging XXL Choji, and Asuma's blades, and they will act as temporary distraction and wall for Shika and Ino, it won't be for long of course but Shika and Ino can make it in time). After this, Choji can do a trip back to Ino, while Shika quickly goes to the others and pretends to have a serious plan to make the others confused and over-attentive at his next move (for enough time), while in the moment Ino releases the jutsu, XXL Choji will be resting on Shino. (with this, Shino is sleeping for a while, if not till the end of the battle, depends how much Choji ate before the fight :P)

5. Ino. If Ino is weak against Kiba/Akamaru, and Kurenai (obviously), (and Shino is temporarily snoring, and disturbing the others with the noise), and she won't stand much chance against Hinata's chakra fists and Byakugan unless she dodges very well and finds an opening to hit, theeeeeen, Shika will certainly not put her do any of these but rather use her as distraction (by having her struggle to cast a mind control and having the others dodge, while Shika brings a sudden attack from Choji or Asuma with blades etc). She can any time be used as a reserve to land a mind spell when Shika is sure she has a chance, while Choji will run over as soon as she releases the jutsu and it's too late for the target to move anymore. Anyway, I've used this strategy previously so they probably won't fall for it twice, but I'm not as smart as Shika, so I'll trust him finding very good use of Ino, seeing how many times he can trick a person to fall in his shadow (he can get enough plans for Ino too, she doesn't even need to think, just follow advice and she'll be successful). With Shika present, Ino can be sure to cast a mind jutsu a lot, and leave an opening for one of the members to attack the cast opponent.

Addition strategy to Ino:. Best thing will be for Shika to find her a way to cast either Kiba or Akamaru in the mind jutsu (and I trust he can find a way) and have them go against each other. While Asuma (and Choji if he's not hungry yet) will attack Hinata who will be shocked and almost fainting, and have Kurenai get worried and go help her, and he (plus Choji) will try to handle them both for a while till Akamaru (with Ino's mind) scratches Kiba till he's KO. After this, Choji will roll over akamaru and make him welcome carpet for a while.

6. I forgot to mention in Shika's section (coz you reminded me at the end of Ino's paragraph), that for him teamwork is his best speciality, since he can use others where he can't do much, and with all this he'll be as genius as not to let himself chakra drained.
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