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Old 02-10-2008, 07:57 PM   #841
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

If you just go off that, base sharingan is better than byakugan. What good is seeing all chakra points if you don't have the speed or gentle fist to dis/enable them? What good is seeing 359 degrees/far away if you don't have the speed to react? Its pointless with the supporting techniques.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:19 PM   #842
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

A Byakugan user can fight with his/her eyes closed. Just thought I'd point that out.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:22 PM   #843
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

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Originally Posted by SMFox1987 View Post
They can fight with their eyes closed but with the Byakugan active are they not still seeing everything around them? And by proxy, into the eyes of the Sharingan wielder?
They don't need to see everything around them, they can feel it. Neji keeps up a constant bubble of chakra around him, so he'd know wherever the enemy is.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Byakugan can see through eyelids. =/
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:29 PM   #844
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

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Where is this stated or shown? And wouldn't such a thing drain your chakra pretty damn fast? Constantly surging it out of every pore of your body to create such a field? That would be like maintaining a never ending Kaiten without the whirling effect. Or a Chidori Nagashi without turning it to lightning natured chakra.
It was stated in the Kidomaru/Neji fight.

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That's my whole point...they can see...as such..they cannot BLOCK OUT the sharingan...no matter what they do...as long as their Byakugan is active..they will always be able to SEE the Sharingan user and his eyes, and cannot avoid the effects of looking into them (such as being put into the genjutsu)
But, the Byakugan can see the Sharingan, the Sharingan can't see the Byakugan.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:32 PM   #845
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

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Ahh, but no where in the manga is it ever stated that the Sharingan must look into the users eyes, just the opposite. The opponent must look into the Sharingan users eyes.
Eye contact must be made. Eye contact = you seeing his eyes, and him seeing your eyes. Not one party seeing another's eyes, and not vice versa.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:33 PM   #846
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

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If you just go off that, base sharingan is better than byakugan. What good is seeing all chakra points if you don't have the speed or gentle fist to dis/enable them? What good is seeing 359 degrees/far away if you don't have the speed to react? Its pointless with the supporting techniques.
First off, Welcome Kina! Nice to have you to the the FC.

Now to business:

What you said has a few flaws. at base, teh byakugan vs. the sharingan is a battle of wits and slight edges. In close combat, the byakugan wins hands down. With moves such as the 32 and 64 chakra point attacks, the speed is too fast to follow unless teh sharingan user is just 4x stronger than the byakugan user. I mean with looking at the chakra flow of a person, even a sharingan user can be broken down because closing off the chakra flow to their points of release and cutting off chakra flow to the eyes. Remember that the sharingan also zaps chakra and needs chakra to do what it does. Stop the flow of chakra to that point and the sharingan is deactivated. Now it may be hard to get it done, but with one precise attack, its game. Now at mid-range, the sharingan wins hands down. Only because the sharingan and induce genjutsu. The same goes to Long range. But in midrange, depending on the strength of the byakugan user, the devine whirl's reach could be far enough to still inflict damage and thus defeat teh sharingan user because the sharingan wouldn't be able to predict that attack or react fast enough to get out of range of teh chakra being released in that fashion. I'll go further into it by P.M. if you need, but I got some quizzes to grade and grade work to get done.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:55 PM   #847
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

I think for fairness of the story, you would have to consider the Byakugan doesnt maintain "eye-Contact" to the calibur needed to get caught up in Genjutsu. Otherwise you are giving anyone with an eyecast jutsu an automatic "I Win" and that sucks. Even though they can see near360 degrees, from when their perspective has been shown, they ususally concentrate on a particular point of focus. Instead of looking at the Byakugan as 360 view, think of it more like having really good peripheral vision in all directions. While you can still see all around you, your field of focus might still have a center. This seems to hold true especially when they are scanning at range and through objects. If they could see with perfect clarity anything in their field of view, then they wouldnt need to search for anything. Whatever they were looking for would be in their field of focus automatically. And for purposes of eye contact clarification, it generally requires both parties looking into each others eyes simultaneously. Otherwise its just looking at someone.

Now, about the chakra field? I dont know that its something that is on all the time, but I seem to remember that being how he managed to detect the arrow. Also, I think that field of chakra is the basis for the Trigrams effective radius.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:20 PM   #848
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

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Very well put Eighty. And I do agree with you on the meaning of Eye Contact, I'm just being liberal with interpretations like Trey did in our last argument ^.^

And if it were the way of things, it would be an I win button, by forcing them to not use the Byakugan. Though I did not like it, that was the concept I came to believe. However, the way you put it about focusing on a specific point even with it active, I suppose makes it a possibility even with my concept of how it works. I'll agree to it and +rep for making such a damn good post.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:43 PM   #849
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Hehe. Thanks for the compliments and the rep.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:53 PM   #850
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

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That is true, that is the meaning of direct 'eye contact'. But the words themselves can be interpreted both ways. Just like everything else in the manga it seems lately lol.

Contact itself, is when something meets something. It is never stated that it must be mutual in the manga. Just like how you're theory on Chakra and capacity is never stated. I am basically using a similar argument to what you did. Since it can be 'interpreted' in multiple ways and does not directly state it.
Eh...but since eye contact is a real-life concept, it is more plausible to use then my argument on chakra growth.
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:31 PM   #851
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

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First off, Welcome Kina! Nice to have you to the the FC.

Now to business:

What you said has a few flaws. at base, teh byakugan vs. the sharingan is a battle of wits and slight edges. In close combat, the byakugan wins hands down. With moves such as the 32 and 64 chakra point attacks, the speed is too fast to follow unless teh sharingan user is just 4x stronger than the byakugan user. I mean with looking at the chakra flow of a person, even a sharingan user can be broken down because closing off the chakra flow to their points of release and cutting off chakra flow to the eyes. Remember that the sharingan also zaps chakra and needs chakra to do what it does. Stop the flow of chakra to that point and the sharingan is deactivated. Now it may be hard to get it done, but with one precise attack, its game. Now at mid-range, the sharingan wins hands down. Only because the sharingan and induce genjutsu. The same goes to Long range. But in midrange, depending on the strength of the byakugan user, the devine whirl's reach could be far enough to still inflict damage and thus defeat teh sharingan user because the sharingan wouldn't be able to predict that attack or react fast enough to get out of range of teh chakra being released in that fashion. I'll go further into it by P.M. if you need, but I got some quizzes to grade and grade work to get done.
Is it not stated that genjutsus do not affect those with the Byakugan? I'm not completely sure where I remember this from, but I remember hearing it (well... reading it at least). The second they activate their byakugan, they see right through the genjutsu.
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:41 PM   #852
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

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Is it not stated that genjutsus do not affect those with the Byakugan? I'm not completely sure where I remember this from, but I remember hearing it (well... reading it at least). The second they activate their byakugan, they see right through the genjutsu.
Where did you read that at? I would like to see that since I don't remember that being stated in the manga. If so, then byakugan wins hands down against the regular sharingan
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:14 AM   #853
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

I have also applied this frame of mind: You must look at the point the genjutsu is being cast from, and as such, 360 degree vision would allow you to avoid looking at that specific poit, while still being able to fight. Also, though it has never been stated that a Byakugan user can simply see through genjutsu, though that does make since, I've always gone on the basis that if they somehow managed to get caught in a genjutsu, they could, hands free if needed, stop a particular flow of chakra to their brain. This, as stated when Naruto was in Itachi's clone's genjutsu, should disperse any normal genjutsu. And since base Sharingan only has genjutsu as a long range or mid range advantage in and of itself, it's limited to dodging and fighting close range.
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:47 AM   #854
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Is this Byakugan Vs Sharingan debate ever gonna end? I know for a fact that I have been in at least 2 or 3 seperate threads on this same exact topic in the manga threads.

edit: I posted a quote from an information page a couple weeks ago where it stated that the Byakugan could see through Genjutsu. But if I remember correctly, the quote that the information was derived from, was taken from one of the filler episodes so its not really gospel. But, the mechanics behind it did make it seem at the very least, very feasible.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:50 AM   #855
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Re: The Naruto Debating FC

Maybe so, SM, but Tsukuyomi is cast, as far as we know, like any other genjutsu, and you just accepted the ability for them to view a specific point while maintaining all around vision. Ergo, don't look at the eyes, don't get effected.
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