ralatone

I honestly have no idea where the brotherly sisterly crap came from either -_-

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HinataFanX

Not when romantic evidence and development is seriously lacking but that form of personality is abundant.
So the balance you mean to get at is that they are opposites in maturity, and that what one has little of the other has an abundance of, and vice-versa? That isn't a good thing for a pairing, they don't match or blend. the type of balance that you are trying to show in NaruSaku is the one present in NaruHina, the fact that Hinata's shyness blends with Naruto and his outgoingness and that each of their traits blends together, while the traits you say balance simply counteract each other and clash, i.e. not good for a pairing.
Okay so then one ends up alone...I'd hate to live in the sad emo world you are imagining for one of them.
What do you mean? We take a burden by proving two pairs while you prove one, and yet our two pairs separated have more development than your one, and besides, what of NaruSaku, it doesn't leave everyone happy, Sasuke is either dead or left alone, and same with Hinata, though she has a personality that would eb happy for Naruto, it would defeat her purpose in the series. So just because we have two pairings that work better together and you have one that clashes and leaves things with a worse ending, that makes us the ones at fault in a debate?
Actually, I really haven't exaggerated Sakura's treatment at all, in fact, those so-called "exaggerations" Sakura's treatment of Naruto is rarely exaggerated as there is massive sufficient manga evidence and backing, whereas the Sasuke's treatment of Sakura is blown out of proportion and Hinata fainting in front of NAruto, something that only happens 2 times in the manga, all of a sudden becomes every time she sees him.

Highspeed could you please tell me which pairing biases were related in each of those examples, I found them hard to determine.

It came from lack of romantic development, manga evidence, signs, body language, treatment, and relationship development in the manga between the two that suggests that relationship more than any romantic relation whatsoever. All throughout the manga with no specific examples other than general growth in personality and relationships.

Oh, and INC, you want to take a piece of this arguement?

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UchihaTaijiya

Well, that was the impression I got from your original post. You.. did actually say that NaruHina was all fluff and SasuSaku was all serious... don't make me quote you.... <.<;; Just check the last page. >.>;;

Sasuke was much more outgoing as a child - and that is what I hope to see Sakura and Naruto eventually bring out within him... he will never be the same person he was before, but he can find within himself what he suppressed. I think Sakura has the strength of character and adaptability to support him in that... I don't agree that it can 'only go so far', but we can agree to disagree on that point. ^^; Just remember... at one point in the series, Sakura was the one who filled his loneliness. I do think that SasuSaku has the most obstacles, mostly because of Sasuke's goals and Itachi's mental torture, but that's also why I prefer the pairing.

It's the idea that the two coming together changes them both for the better, that is what I look for in a pairing. I think SasuSaku holds the most potential in that area.

And perhaps I don't view fluff in the same manner as you... as I think 'fluff' can take many forms.

But it's true, I am not particularly drawn to overly-cutesy pairings, but I find that NaruHina is the exception... Its Hinata's sincere respect and feelings towards Naruto, and the fact that he spent so much of his childhood alone, needs and wants love so strongly and has had to prove so much - like I've said before, I think just knowing that Hinata has always cared will dull those painful memories and give Naruto more confidence. Someone saw his worth when he viewed himself as a nobody... that is what Hinata can do for him, and she's such a patient and kind character... she really works with him.. And I really can see serious moments of love between those two. =/ His energy livens her up.. it's not a big obstacle at all. o.o

lulz fandom.

~_~
That's hypocritical...
I don't like to read that Sakura doesn't love Sasuke romantically, because, she has not openly stated that. <.<
So... if you guys don't like HFX and IMC saying that the NaruSaku bond is purely plantonic, because it hasn't been stated to be... then uh, the same thing goes for Sakura's love for Sasuke... and that was actually confessed. >.>

And she did tell Naruto.. that saving Sasuke was her life-long wish. >.<

So, by your reasoning above, I can say that assuming Sakura's feeling are changing is invalid, because she has not openly stated it. ...
See what I mean? Just accept that that it is their interpretation and leave it be. It is a valid interpretation, just as yours is. ^_^

1) NaruHina

2) NaruSaku

3) SasuSaku

Easy enough. Though... your descriptions.. I don't agree... Not gonna debate it though. ~_~ I need sleep.

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ralatone

I'm not going to argue with everything else you just stated because it's basically more of the same of what you said in your other responses. But as far as stating that there is a burden, You're the ones who decide that you want to defend two pairings. Not us, If I wanted to I could be up here defending NaruSaku and NejiHina or HinaKiba or SakuLee but in the end that would be my choice. So if you feel overwhelmed trying to support two pairings, then maybe you should ease up on it. Also, as far as development goes I would give the pairing with the most development to SasuSaku then NaruSaku and then finally NaruHina, and just because it may seem that way right now doesn't mean that none of these pairings could further develop past each other.

I find it funny that you think if Sasuke or Hinata were to not end up with Sakura or Naruto that they would be "Dead or Alone." First of all they could always find other people, and instances like these do happen alot in manga. Also you have to take into consideration that this is not a romance manga by any means. There are alot of other more important things that need to be touched upon before we should even get to pairings. For all we know they could all end up happy yet alone or with a random character because in the end romance isn't the main focus (even less now than part 1.)

Oh and you would ask your butt buddy to come and help you out

Yeah, like I said. I was basically just trying to state my opinion how the general feel for both of the pairings would end up as. Yes, I know that both pairings would have their fluff times and serious times but I was trying to describe how their normal feel would be. Maybe using serious for SasuSaku is the wrong word to use, but my view of them as a pair is more calm than anything else.

Thats the thing though, I've never said that once that Sakura doesn't love Sasuke. Cause I'm almost positive that she does love him still and at the least wants to get her feelings for him in check by confronting him about it after he returns.

Also, if NaruSaku was like everyone says it to be and was show as merely Brotherly-Sisterly then I wouldn't even be arguing with you guys right now. But I feel that there has been alot of development between the two that could suggest deeper emotions that something platonic.

It's almost like me saying that NaruHina is just a Friendly Relationship. I know that statement wouldn't go well with fans of the pairing.

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I'MNOTCRAZY

NaruHina can TOTALLY be serious... at least at one point, where Naruto has to tell Hinata about the Kyuubi. That's where things get damn serious. I agree about SasuSaku, most of the time it IS a lot more serious with little fluff, but seriously, with NaruHina along with it, there's no deficit in fluff. XD



it's a reasonable interpretation of their relationship. that's what it is.
He's not that serious when he's acting normally without other stresses. He's definitely a lot more light-hearted than Sakura is. She's much more serious than him, although she does have immature moment, I will agree, but these moments are not a significant part of her personality and do not present themselves often.
they may have similar personalities in some ways, but in many ways they clash. Naruto is a prankster. He often provokes others. Sakura, on the other hand, is hot-headed and is easily provoked. Thus, if he is provoking, and she is easily provoked, he will often provoke her, causing unfavorable conditions for a lasting relationship.

he was simply saying that you were saying that it was not fair that we were using two pairings on one and that was not an issue. it's really just work for us, but we're not complaining.

Alright, but do aknowledge the fact that NaruHina develops in leaps and bounds. That has occurred from the very beginning and thus a pattern has formed: every single time Hinata has a conversation with Naruto or is shown for a long while with him, their relationship grows exponentially.

look, Hinata has her heart set on Naruto. Her entire development is because of Naruto. Practically her entire CHARACTER is based around Naruto. Without Naruto, she is little-to-nothing of a character, having no development whatsoever. Keep in mind also that bonds are an important theme, and that includes bonds of love. Thus, I highly doubt we won't see a lot of pairings at the end.

passionate is more the right word to use. it's a very passionate pairing. just ask any SasuSaku fan.
That would be because it is blatant that Hinata deeply loves Naruto, so you could not say that NaruHina as a whole is only friendly. Naruto thinks of Hianta as mostly a friend, but that doesn't constitute the entire pairing, nor is it something that can't easily change.

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Highspeed0516

Good! I don't have to break it down "Big Bird Style" for everyone. You would be right if you had more to add to these. All three relationships are far more complex, but I put them at their basic level to make a point. The adjustments are relative in difficulty, but equal in effort.

Yeah . . . he knows that. NaruSaku fans who stop to think know that. He was refering to the brother-sister argument again, and giving you a frame of reference from your point of view.

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I'MNOTCRAZY

uh... it's not a very good example because his is ridiculous and mine actually is a reasonable rationalization.

btw, I think that a NaruSaku fan who doesn't stop to think is therefore a NaruSaku fanTARD. At least that's my definition of the word, along with someone who shouts "___ FTW!!!" all the time... but the two correlate quite often.

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HinataFanX

I take offense to that joke. INC is a great guy who shares the same views as me, and enjoys debating this as much as I do, and does a damn good job of it, so I asked if he wanted a piece of it.

Heck, you didn't even counter most of my points, just blew them off saying they're the same points, which still stand since they remain uncountered.

Also, as far as it goes, we've done a better job putting up our point than you guys. Then again, I can't blame you, you're trying to support a pairing that is very hard to debate for, and you're really good for the side you're going on.

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I'MNOTCRAZY

[continuing]... which sucks. [/continuing]

I take offense as well. That was of ill-taste. I don't know what would have possessed you to make such a comment, seeing as I thought you were beyond that.

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UchihaTaijiya

^ Try and refrain from saying that your views are 'correct'. It just sounds so damn arrogant. <.<

Don't get me wrong, I tend to agree with your views more often than not - but that doesn't mean that they are what Kishimoto is intending, no matter how confident you feel. Yes, our side has ample support from the manga, the anime, the databooks, video games, etc. BUT NaruSaku also has support from all of these, (except maybe the video games, I've only honestly seen that there's a NaruHina date in one of them, I don't know what sort of content there is for either NaruSaku or SasuSaku), depending on how you interpret specific scenes (PoAL, end of Part I, CH 297, etc) and some of what's written in the databooks (specifically the very end of Sakura's second profile).

It isnt a sure thing, and perhaps that's what makes this such a heated/entertaining aspect of the Naruto fandom, for peope like us, anyhow.

In the Harry potter fandom, which I was never apart of personally, but have read about from other people's conversations on forums... it seems the Harry/Hermione supporters were convinced they were right - with essays and parallels and myths all backing them. But that wasn't the author's intention.
Now, I got to the fifth book and I was pretty sure of Ron/Hermione, so.. I'm not sure where they were all coming from. But still... that could happen to us. I could be wrong this time. *shrugs* I certainly don't have a professional degree in predicting japanese manga. LOL

Even if you are a literature buff, I'm probably right in assuming it's western literature you've studied and interpreted. So... yep. I'm done.


Fanart, yea baby! XD

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I'MNOTCRAZY

I think he was saying that as a joke... or he was baiting ralatone...

was that last one one of Charu-san's work? She's one of my favs. ^_^

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HinataFanX

It was just baiting, but since I got called on it I edited it out.

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UchihaTaijiya

Yep! I love her work too. She can really capture the NaruHina pairing.

Okay, thank you. ^^; I very much prefer the edit. XD
Don't mind me, I sometimes take myself too seriously. lolz

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Highspeed0516

Nevertheless, UchihaTaija makes the point I've been trying to make. It has nothing to do with comments but your tendency to dismiss certain data . . . and I agree that perhaps this is for cultural reasons.

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I'MNOTCRAZY

dismiss what? I don't dismiss something that can't be explained reasonably any other way than the way I don't like, but if it can be reasonably analyzed as not affecting my argument, then I'll go right ahead and pass over it after dismissing it using my interpretation. cultural reasons? I don't see how cultural reasons have anything to do with anything here, except for interpretation of the manga the same way as english-language literature, but to a degree, all literature can be analyzed the same way as long as background information about the type of literature is taken into account. For example, it is extremely rare to see yaoi in a Shonen manga. Thus, when analyzing SasuNaru, one has to take that into account. Besides that, however, it can be analyzed using normal interpretation techniques. Foreshadowing is foreshadowing. Emotions are emotions. Human actions are human actions.

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