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Old 04-13-2008, 02:27 PM   #1
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Freedom vs. Equality

Which is more important? Personally I think freedom is. I think the want for equality is just as greedy as the want for freedom. The only difference is that when your free, what you do is not regulated by others. I personally find this much more positive than living like a slave to the point where what you do is based on others. Now this isn't all about doing, but that is just how I explained my point. This could be about having, being, etc.


EDIT: Could a mod make a poll for this thread. Just put the options as "Freedom" and "Equality." I don't care about the other settings.
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Old 04-13-2008, 02:53 PM   #2
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

I say freedom chances of everyone seeing others as equals to them will always be very slim because most people think that they are better then others.

Not to mention there is still a lot of racism going around.

Being free is much better because you aren't obliged to follow anyone you can do or be w/e the hell you want to. In fact through freedom i say lot's of people can say that they are equal to others.
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Old 04-13-2008, 02:57 PM   #3
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

I'm not quite sure that I understand. I don't think freedom and equality are opposites or anything. Can't we both be free, and considered as equals as well? It would depend on how we describe equality, but I'm pretty sure we can. Maybe you could elaborate?

And you sure you want a poll? Those tend to be dipshit magnets, those people must really love to click on shit or something, I suppose. Up to you, I'll add it if you really want it...^^;
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:49 PM   #4
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
I'm not quite sure that I understand. I don't think freedom and equality are opposites or anything. Can't we both be free, and considered as equals as well? It would depend on how we describe equality, but I'm pretty sure we can. Maybe you could elaborate?
I agree completely, trying to put one above the other is plain stupid. As far as my beliefs go I think that the everyone should have the right to not be forced to follow anything and be able to choose for themselves. And that all people black or white, male or female, should be put on the same scale.
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Old 04-13-2008, 04:13 PM   #5
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
I'm not quite sure that I understand. I don't think freedom and equality are opposites or anything. Can't we both be free, and considered as equals as well? It would depend on how we describe equality, but I'm pretty sure we can. Maybe you could elaborate?

And you sure you want a poll? Those tend to be dipshit magnets, those people must really love to click on shit or something, I suppose. Up to you, I'll add it if you really want it...^^;
I don't think you can truly be free and equal at the same time. If it is an equal society, wouldn't you be subject to only be free within the lines of being equal. Let me explain. In a society where one's wages must be equal, does that not prevent them from gaining more wages than another person? Therefore they are not totally free. True freedom and true equality cannot exist together. Then again, neither can exist separate in reality.


No, I guess I don't want the poll.
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Old 04-13-2008, 04:40 PM   #6
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

Freedom and equality cannot co-exist in their purest sense because humans are all unique individuals. The only equality that can be achieved is equal opportunity.
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Old 04-13-2008, 06:18 PM   #7
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

Yeah, like you said, Red, true freedom and true equality cannot exist at all no matter what. We'll never all be free to do what we want, because there are things some people may want to do that would take away the freedom of others. Equality is impossible because everyone is different by default.

So while we cannot all have equal benefits, we can, like trey suggested, all have equal opportunity to those benefits. Just as we can all be free to do as we wish, with the exception of doing things that would limit the freedoms of others.

Unfortunately, neither of those conditions exist in our current system, despite those being the some of the core principles and foundations of our country. = /
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Old 04-13-2008, 09:38 PM   #8
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Yeah, like you said, Red, true freedom and true equality cannot exist at all no matter what. We'll never all be free to do what we want, because there are things some people may want to do that would take away the freedom of others. Equality is impossible because everyone is different by default.

So while we cannot all have equal benefits, we can, like trey suggested, all have equal opportunity to those benefits. Just as we can all be free to do as we wish, with the exception of doing things that would limit the freedoms of others.

Unfortunately, neither of those conditions exist in our current system, despite those being the some of the core principles and foundations of our country. = /
Well my question is, which would you rather have: a society based on true equality with no true freedom, or a society based on true freedom with no true equality?
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:44 AM   #9
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

A society would function better if it focused on fairness rather than equality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckboy
Well my question is, which would you rather have: a society based on true equality with no true freedom, or a society based on true freedom with no true equality?
Both options lack substance. Both need the other for a well-functioning society. Maybe a better question would be, which do you value more: Equality or Freedom?
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:05 PM   #10
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

Well in a Truly Free Society, Equality shouldn't be a problem.\


So Freedom.
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:10 PM   #11
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

^Actually, it would be a problem. Considering if I'm free to do whatever I want, I could beat your ass and make you my slave. Slaves aren't equal to their masta'. XD Absolute freedom for me, not so much for you. That's why you can't have a truly free society. ; )

Seems like this is more of an anarchy vs. communism(Or some shit) type question.
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:14 PM   #12
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

True enough. But you'd have be Able to kick my ass first.
And your right, it is anarchy vs. communism.
Oh well.
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:56 PM   #13
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

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Originally Posted by Mashed Potato View Post
A society would function better if it focused on fairness rather than equality.



Both options lack substance. Both need the other for a well-functioning society. Maybe a better question would be, which do you value more: Equality or Freedom?
That is what I am looking for. I don't have a way with words.

Anyways as far as the anarchy vs. communism comments go, I just can't understand why people are willing to give up their freedoms so that society can be more equal and I wanted to see the reasons why people would want it that way. That is the main reason I posted this.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:10 PM   #14
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

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True enough. But you'd have be Able to kick my ass first.
I already got that ability covered. Fuck yeah! ; )

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Originally Posted by Redneckboy View Post
Anyways as far as the anarchy vs. communism comments go, I just can't understand why people are willing to give up their freedoms so that society can be more equal and I wanted to see the reasons why people would want it that way. That is the main reason I posted this.
I can think of a number of reasons people would give up some freedoms of theirs. Safety and fairness are the more legitimate ones. Stupidity and arrogance are common reasons as well, unfortunately. I can't think of many instances where people have given up freedom for equality though, unless you're referring to fairness.

Assuming you are, its to ensure the maximum amount of freedom to everyone. To do so, we have to deny people freedoms that can limit the freedom of others.

Take that away, and you'll have a society that overly favors the most powerful people. The more powerful you are, the more you can do. And the less powerful you are, the less you'll be able to do and get away with. And most people aren't all that strong. A society with absolute freedom would actually be rather restrictive for the vast majority of people, believe it or not. That's the main reason why certain freedoms need to be restricted.

Besides that, and obvious safety reasons (No yelling 'fire' in a crowded building type shit), I don't believe many restricted freedoms are warranted though. Especially bullshit like censorship and restrictions based on perceived notions of moral righteousness. If it's that kind of crap you're talking about, then it's because people are total fucking idiots. ^^
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:16 PM   #15
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Re: Freedom vs. Equality

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
I already got that ability covered. Fuck yeah! ; )



I can think of a number of reasons people would give up some freedoms of theirs. Safety and fairness are the more legitimate ones. Stupidity and arrogance are common reasons as well, unfortunately. I can't think of many instances where people have given up freedom for equality though, unless you're referring to fairness.

Assuming you are, its to ensure the maximum amount of freedom to everyone. To do so, we have to deny people freedoms that can limit the freedom of others.

Take that away, and you'll have a society that overly favors the most powerful people. The more powerful you are, the more you can do. And the less powerful you are, the less you'll be able to do and get away with. And most people aren't all that strong. A society with absolute freedom would actually be rather restrictive for the vast majority of people, believe it or not. That's the main reason why certain freedoms need to be restricted.

Besides that, and obvious safety reasons (No yelling 'fire' in a crowded building type shit), I don't believe many restricted freedoms are warranted though. Especially bullshit like censorship and restrictions based on perceived notions of moral righteousness. If it's that kind of crap you're talking about, then it's because people are total fucking idiots. ^^
Well I am even talking about stupid things like Universal Health Care, and all those laws that restrict the consumer to actually be a smart capitalist. If those laws were done away then the society would be able to give the businesses more freedom and the society would prosper. This is because multiple businesses would get tons of money to the point where huge monopolies are created. Now to protect against these businesses controlling the consumer consumers would only buy from the extremely rich company of their choice, which has a huge monopoly. Then the other companies would suffer and be forced to revise their strategy to get consumers to buy. I am basically giving you a watered-down taste of anarcho-capitalism, which is advertised in my signiture.

I mean, it is not really like anarchism even though the word is in the name and I think that is why it repels people, but I find that I am attracted to a system that is totally driven by human greed and therefore, it really can't fail unless people would suddenly become generous, in which case it would be safe to socialize the economy.
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