Miburo

Because there is nothing logical about it. No one deserves anything just because of things that happened to other people. No one should be entitled to shit just because of their skin color, that's just ridiculous.


So what? Being able to claim you're descendants are from the eastern hemisphere doesn't mean shit (Also, Africa is on the eastern hemisphere last time I checked. >.>). I know plenty of people who don't celebrate their native land's cultures and religions and shit, myself included. This isn't a unique situation that only to black people. = /
News flash: The same exact thing can happen to anyone who has a boss that isn't the same ethnicity as them. If you're against racism, then cool. Don't act like it's something that's unique only towards black people though.

Anyone who is poor, regardless of ethnicity, has the same exact problems. How about instead of aiding just black people, we aid all poor people instead? Wouldn't that make a shit-ton more sense and be a lot more beneficial to erase the race-divide, as opposed to widening it, by singling out certain races? I sure as hell think so...
Again, not a black only problem. They're no more effected by this then poor other-then-black skinned people. Singling your own race out for special treatment isn't going to help anything. If you're really against racism and aren't just using it as an excuse you'd be against special privileges for anyone based on skin color. If people are poor or needy then we should help them out regardless of skin color. Race should be a non-issue.

Trey

Since I just skipped over most of the posts in this thread, I'll just respond to the original statement. If I make any points that have been discussed and/or brought up already, well, I don't care.

Ahem--sure there are black people who make racial slurs and/or comments to white folk or the caucassian race as a whole. There are people like that from every race and all walks of life.

From what I gather, the OP seems to think it's not as sensitive when a black guy/girl acts racist to a white guy/girl. Well no shit. It's obvious it's because of the past relations between blacks and whites. There's some kind of seemingly condescending, nonspoken contract between the two races.

When the OP brought up the situation of a white guy walking into a room full of blacks and saying something (really) offensive. For that situation to even occur, or for the desired outcome--or at least what the OP was reffering to--to come to pass, it would have to be a pretty informal, casual setting. Therefore, the likelihood of those "gangsta" types to be around is pretty high. So, yeah, what did he expect doing something like that?

You see, it's the culture that my race has mainstreamed. It's unfortunate, but I know as well as anyone that our youths and generation have the wrong "morals" swimming around in their heads. There's a whole tangent I could go into chronicling the diseased cycle blacks are suffering from, but that's for another time.

Anyways, everyone seeing each other as equals and such is probably never going to happen. Unless a chronic colorblind gene devastates the human genepool, we'll see racial tension forever, most likely.

And, you do have the freedom to say those statements--no one is infringing on your right to say racial slurs. However, you should be prepared to face the consequences of uttering said slurs, because there will be plenty; of the political and physical kind alike.

Hiraku

sometimes all this racial slurs and political incorrect terms used against blacks and whites is at times just plain childish. Remember were all the same species so were the hell is any real diffrence genetically.

But as trey said there will always be racial hatred between all races and ethnicitys. Unless we all become color blind all at once.

__________________
Hiraku

The Look of Innocence

YondaimeBunshin

Luckily for me I've lived in many "worlds" and seen many points of view so for me the reason I couldn't be racist is I've been on many points on the spectrum. Everything from a long period of being with my ex-step dad (who is black and from the south) in a poorer urban and suburban neighborhoods to finally moving away with my dad who is a surfer hippie yet yuppie white guy living in the way suburban middle class neighborhood.. Just saying, maybe it's that I was forced to learn what it meant to be a black kid's son in a black neighborhood and yet knew that in the end I'm a white-filipino kid from Hawaii.

I guess what I'm saying is the whole racist thing bothers me because it's a pretty feeble excuse that too many people make and it's not one group or me trying to be overly sensitive, it's just old. The black-white, asian-middle eastern thing, we're mostly second, third or fourth generation of all those who have immigrated, descended from slaves, or slave owners or what have you. To say that a particular group is more racist than another is pretty lame because everyone is an individual, and that's the basis on which we should deal, it's not like I'm gonna head up the next meeting of YondaimeBunshin meets 1000 black people so he can make proper generalizations..

I'm prefer to be an asshole on a person to person basis..

andimrob

But it isn't something that happened to "other" people, it happened my people. People that look like me. It would be completely different if american society was racially homogeneous. If that were the case, than post apartheid racism would be damn near impossible if we all looked the same. But I can be singled out just by my skin as more than likely the descendant of slaves. It is not the color of a black man's skin that would make him feel entitled. Like I said before its the history of him and people like him in this country. Its funny to think that some people think that hundreds of years of slavery can be wiped clean by given people back the basic respect as a human being that we all deserve, and then thinking that its all good and we are even now. So if their shouldn't be any sense of entitlement or any hurt feelings at all about slavery in general than tell me how the hell should black people feel? Good???

It tells me a lot that you said that. I'm surprised I have to say this, but Africa is not a country. Well over one thousand different languages are spoken on the African continent with a similarly large number of cultural/ethnic groups. Saharan Africa and Sub-Saharan are wildly different. And generally you are just wrong in saying that. Your not celebrating or identifying your native land's culture is your choice, not an indispensable fact of life. African American's were stripped of their cultural identities. Can you not appreciate the gravity of what something like that means to a group of people? The loss of traditions, rights of passage, folk lore etc. What about the people who do want to connect back to where they are from, do they not matter?

So if you are a white american that doesn't identify with any ancestry culturally, than if you are to get a job interview with a white boss what grounds are there for racial discrimination? (read: none) To a degree you are correct, that challenge may be faced by anyone who is dissimilar from their boss, but when most of the bosses are white in america (and you know they are) than other white folks have a leg up to get into those power positions, ya know the "good 'ol boys" system.

News flash: No racial group in the United States has it as bad as black folks. No other group is as negatively stereotyped as black folks are. No other group has that history. Thats the real issue. You can see that in how different groups are treated here. In a country that is mostly white, you don't walk around with your ethnicity painted on your face!


That is something I can agree with, all poor people do have it bad in this capitalist society. Something should be done, but poor people have been voting their issues for years and they are STILL POOR. Poverty shouldn't exist in a country as rich as america. Blacks in my personal opinion have it worse though because they are poor and black. Racism and thus the racial divide will exist until we are all mulattoes.

It shouldn't be but it definitely IS and issue. I am not racist, but I am definitely racially aware, and I have to be. I plan on living a happy and success filled life in a white man's country. I have to interact with white folks daily on my way to success. A white person may never have to interact and socialize with black folks to get what they want or where they want to be, thus in general whites are much less racially aware. They don't understand their advantage hence they can't understand others disadvantage. Poor people have it bad, if they are black they have it worse.

Miburo

Actually, slavery has been going on since the beginning of written history. People that look just like me, and have the same country of origin as me, have been enslaved in the past as well. Big deal. Were you a slave? Anyone you know personally? Know anyone who owns slaves? Any slave traders? Nah. Cut the shit, you shouldn't be entitled to anything just because people who had the same skin color as you were enslaved way back when.
I don't recall saying Africa was a country. You said you couldn't claim to be from some country in the eastern hemisphere. Obviously, you can. You must have come from at least one of the regions that is now claimed by some country in Africa. ; )

And again, cut the shit. If you wanted to celebrate some African shit then you could do some damn research and find some shit to celebrate. It didn't take me long to read up on the general areas that black slaves were taken from during the time frame of the period of legal slavery in America, and I really couldn't give a shit. So you should have no problem there. While there may be a shit-ton of different types, they did share some broad similarities among them.

Which isn't any different than if I wanted to celebrate the cultures of my ancestors when they were at the same time-line society wise. There's little chance that I would ever figure out exactly what tribes and clans my ancestors were from either. I bet the vast majority of people could say the same damn thing. Again, you're not special.
Last I checked, racial discrimination was illegal. What the fuck more do you want?

Bullshit. Pretty much every racial group has it's stereotypes at the moment, and blacks hardly have it worst. I'd rather be black than someone who fits the bill of a Muslim or an illegal immigrant, after all.


They're no worse off than any other poor person. The point is anyone who is struggling to survive deserves just as much help as anyone else who is struggling to survive. Being white and poor doesn't make you any less poor then some poor person who is black, or Asian, or Hispanic. No one deserves special treatment in that type of situation.

Again with the pity party bullshit. You think blacks have it bad because of potential racism because they're a minority? Blacks outnumber asians 3:1 in America. Japanese Americans were discriminated against, and even imprisoned, much more recently do to their race than any black person. Now go look how easy it is to find organizations to assist Asian Americans compared to how many to assist African Americans. You'd think that they'd need a shit-ton more help going by your logic, but that's clearly not the case. Same for many significantly smaller minorities.

And in regards to that, you have a leg up on many whites as well due to a much easier time getting financial aid for an education in comparison to a white person. If you and I had the same grades and the same family income you'd have many more opportunities for financial aid than me, because you can apply for all the same shit I can plus for black only funds that I wouldn't have access to. And I'm pretty sure most companies would hire someone with a college education over someone without one as far as well paying jobs go, regardless of race. Seems to me that you're not understanding the advantages and disadvantages, if anything.

Perhaps you should drop the "us vs. them" mentality for a second and try to realize that, when compared to anyone in the same financial situation as you, you've got a serious advantage. People that are richer than you have an advantage over you, but I can say the same exact damn thing. When the cards are stacked in one's favor when compared to people in similar situations, it makes one look like quite the ass to cry foul. Perhaps, just maybe, you're starting to see why I keep telling you to cut the shit already. I'm not holding my breath though. = /

OffTheChain

1. I don't know anything as to how African Americas are treated, but I know Black people don't have it as bad in general. Of course Blacks have been labeled in one way (criminals, liars etc), because of a small demographics. But White people have been labeled as racist. If I were white, I'd be rather pissed, especially if I was genuine and not racist. We can't help it either. There are more white people than anyone else. If anything, I'd think muslims and koreans are having it bad atm.

2. Not all Black people are poor. It all depends on the individual. If they are hard working, if jobs are available for them, and well family background and education. The same with every other race, no?

3. I hate people referring to slavery. It never happened to you. If I still used the past, I'd say right now I hate all Americans for nuking Hiroshima. But what do I care? It never happened to me. As ignorant as it may sound, it's the truth.

andimrob

Blah blah blah... You still haven't answered the question: So if their shouldn't be any sense of entitlement or any hurt feelings at all about slavery in general than tell me how the hell should black people feel?" As if it would make sense for you to tell me and people like me how to feel in the first place.

Anyways, so are you slavic? Jewish perhaps? Slavery on racial terms wasn't invented until the mid-Atlantic slave trade. So what happened to Africa is relatively new on the block in comparison to what came before it. Before it anyone may have been a slave of some sort, there was no racial discrimination in ancient Egypt, the slave may have the same color skin as the Pharaoh. Know this: Slavery as exercised by mid-Atlantic trade was a travesty forced upon people which bred a disease like mentality that is pervasive, destructive, and self sustaining. You need to understand that slavery has bred a state of mind in black Americans that is keeping us down to this day, on top of any other external forces. Read the Willie Lynch letters, its debatable whether or not they were real or not. But regardless, everything in the letter is really how things played out. That is why people still bring up slavery while others tell them, "It doesn't matter it didn't happen to you" while millions of black Americans think like slaves thanks to slavery. But hey! Cheers! Let's all forget about it, its no big deal right?... Whatever!

Ever wonder why we are called black? I have, because obviously we are brown. But we are called black because that was given to us by whites. Look up the dictionary definitions of white and black and see the difference, there are lots of terms to compare but it can be summed up generally as "saintly" vs. "grotesque."


You responded to my statement that I couldn't claim a country in the eastern hemisphere by saying "Africa is in the eastern hemisphere" which generally implies that you were confusing a continent with a country. Say what you will but that's how it read.

You can trace it back to a country. I've traced mine back as far as it goes, and I know that the slaves that are my ancestors were shipped from a port off the west coast of africa... like every other slave. So I'm left to just guess a region? Wow America, thanks for that! Why would I ever feel upset, now I can be from anywhere I want! :sarcasm:

Some "African shit?" Damn... that's how you feel for real bro?

Genealogically you have a much greater chance than I. And yes I could arbitrarily claim a random sub-Saharan African nation as my own, though I would probably be wrong. You still don't get the point, your ancestors that may have come through Ellis island or someplace, have documentation, and were shown infinitely more respect as human beings by this country than my own.

I sincerely hope you aren't naive enough to believe that just because something is illegal that it doesn't happen. If there was no racial discrimination occurring there would never have been a need to make it illegal, understand? Smoking weed is illegal, driving drunk is illegal, tax evasion: illegal, and the list goes on. But all of it happens anyway, and in many cases when it does happen it never gets caught or goes unpunished. Racial discrimination happens, and if you can't or won't believe that this little dialog we are having is pointless. Get real man.

Take the treatment of the hurricane Katrina victims, the mostly white parts of Florida that were damaged are doing fine now and received aide immediately after the storm. But in predominantly black New Orleans, it took weeks before citizens got help, sub-par help at that. Take also into account, that as victims of the hurricane were fleeing into pre-dominantly white neighboring towns in Mississippi or Alabama, they were NOT welcome or given asylum and some even faced violent resistance to people who are basically refugees. Their homes were destroyed, and now they are knocking down what is left. For what? So they can build hotels and shopping malls because the (mostly black) victims are too poor to move back and rebuild. They used the hurricane as an excuse to kick blacks out of the city and keep them out. It's called gentrification, its racial discrimination and its real.

Oh no doubt those groups have it bad. But its pretty much a matter of opinion if they have it worse than blacks. I don't think so, because whenever all this immigrant mess and 9/11 mentality blow over, more than likely the same black stereotypes will still be thriving. You know the stereotypes, that we all love hip-hop, smoking weed, eating chicken and watermelon, are all hyper sexual, promiscuous. Or that black fathers don't take care of their kids, that we are angry/loud, sell drugs, want to be thugs, glorify crime, are generally uneducated, violent, etc.

You are implying that the struggles are comparable and the obstacles needed to be overcome by each respective group is the same. And its just not true.

And it goes on... You obviously do not know what I think. Japanese Americans were imprisoned for how long? How many generations did they live and die playing by another groups rules? How many of them were killed? Raped and impregnanted? Forced into slave labor? Bought and sold like property? Shipped from a foreign land, forced to become Christian, and denied their native tongues and culture? And you think those two situations are comparable?

Guess what else? In 1988 Ronald Regan formally apologized to Japanese Americans, and their survivors and heirs were given $1.6 BILLION in reparations, is that not exactly what this started over? Entitlement? Reparations have never been given to African Americans because this country would be broke trying to pay back what it owes to African Americans.

That is a single advantage that many young African American's don't get to exercise because they didn't make it to college in the first place... DUH! And you can apply for black only funds, it would be discrimination if you couldn't. But you are right, I am in a blessed position. An African American male pursuing a career in Electrical Engineering with two generations of college graduates coming before him in his family, three of them with or pursuing Ph.D's is practically unheard of... that's the problem. Because you're right, well paying jobs will more often than not require a college degree of some variety. But look at blacks as compared to white and see which group has more college graduates. This is really simple stuff. I don't want pity from anybody, but some people just don't understand. If everyone were understanding of the situation African American's are born under (African American's included) than most of these problems that persist in my community would die out in a generation or two.

andimrob

Yes you do say statements related to and comprised of "shit" quite regularly. There is no "us vs them" mentality. I am not the conventional black male you may or may not interact with on a regular or irregular basis, I just know what the hell I'm talking about. And let me say this one more time, no other group in the US has a similar situation, because on top of being poor no other group was enslaved for hundreds of years and still legally discriminated against for hundred or so years, before the current crappy state of affairs was even established. If you don't want to accept that, its fine. But I would not bother going back and forth when the basic disagreement I gather is "I think slavery hurt my people and that it persists" vs. "No your wrong. I think you just need to man the fuck up"

PS. Back on the racial discrimination thing earlier. If you really think blacks, whites and the rest all have it the same explain this. African American's account for 12.4% of the population, accordingly we commit about 13% of all the crimes, which sounds about right. But African Americans compose more than 50% of the prison population in the US. Does that sound like justice? Or does that sounds like "just us?"

Miburo

I would guess the same way I feel about my ancestors being enslaved by Vikings, the British, the Russians, etc. Wasn't you, suck it up.
Oh, yeah, because slavery on racial terms is sooo much worse then slavery on any other terms. Jesus fucking christ, dude. Please, elaborate, how does that matter at all? People being looked down upon as property instead of human beings is the same damn thing regardless of the reason why. And even then, I'd bet Africans becoming slaves had a lot more to do with the fact that they weren't very civilized for the most part in comparison to their enslavers then because of what color their skin was.

"Oh, blacks being enslaved is so much worse than other types of slavery LOL!" You've got to be kidding.
I've never seen anyone that was actually "white" either. Yet you've got no problem throwing that term around like it's going out of style. Ever think you might be reading way, way too much into this shit, dawg?

Yeah, and last I checked Africa was comprised of countries. You're obviously from a region one of them encompasses. So that would mean you must come from some country in the eastern hemisphere. Sorry, I'll make sure I spell every little part out so you don't jump all over me over stupid shit. = /

And the people from that region have some general things in common. Same as the tribes and clans from my countries of origins. Gee, thanks a fucking lot, people that conquered my ancestors and fucked up their shit. Boo fucking hoo. ; ;


Yeah, some African shit. Just like people celebrate Japanese shit, and German shit, and Jewish shit. Defensive much? Oh wait, the answer to that is pretty damn obvious. ; )

They could also have come over as indentured servants, or people escaping persecution, etc. So what? You don't get the point: It doesn't fucking matter. Yeah, sucked for them. I acknowledge that. You didn't go through shit though, so what are you bitching about? What do you hope to accomplish?

Haha, I went to a predominately black school as a white kid. I know all about fucking racism. Besides making it illegal and fighting to make sure it's enforced, what the fuck more do you expect people to do? That's my point. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, ever. I'm asking you, what the fuck do you want?

Sounds more like discrimination against poor people instead of black people, unless the poor white people who lived in the city are being given special treatment that I'm not aware of. Just like I wouldn't blame all the looting and senseless violence that was going on down there on the fact that they were mostly black. Really seems like you're just looking to place the race card whenever fucking possible, honestly.


Exactly, everyone has it bad in their own ways. Notice I'm not the one saying anyone has it worse than others. You are.

How isn't it? Any other minority runs the risk of being screwed by racism just like you. Whites have their own problems as well. Obviously not the same, but they're easily comparable, and I certainly wouldn't claim that anyone in particular has it worse than anyone else.

Way to miss the point, I wasn't comparing what the two groups went through. I was showing that there are minority groups today that are just as likely to be singled out and victimized because of racism, yet they don't get anywhere near the opportunities blacks do. You think it matters to some thai family struggling to pay for schooling, healthcare, etc. how their ancestors were treated? Do you really think any of that matters, honestly? Not even playing around, dude, get real.
That shit was given to the people that actually went through that shit. Freed slaves didn't get that, and that sucks for them. Again, point acknowledged.

However, everyone who was enslaved or who was responsible for slavery is dead. Who should apologize, and who should they apologize to? What kind of fucked up, self-serving attitude do you have to think that people who didn't suffer for anything should get something from people who didn't do anything wrong?

Miburo

Who's fault is that? They're given more opportunities than pretty much anyone else, there is no excuse. I know people who drop out of highschool and still go to college. I know people who got shit for grades, are poor as shit, and still find a way to pay their way through college. Fuck that noise.

And there being more white college graduates than blacks has everything to do with their financial situation and nothing to do with their skin color. Help out poor people and everyone wins, not just the poor black people. There's no need for special treatment due to skin color, at all.

Lol. What the hell, dude? Quote a single time I made any assumption or statement about what race you are. Now read back through your shit and see how many times you make statements about my ethnicity during your arguments. Why even say stupid shit like "I'm not the conventional black male, blah blah, your statements are shit?" It's clear as day that you're the one with the chip on your shoulder, and that your arguments are based on that shit. Don't even try giving me that shit, dude.

Did I ever once say it didn't suck for black people in the past? Did I ever say that Africans on a statistical basis are at a disadvantage in our society? Nope, and nope. Guess what though? Blacks have higher violent crime rates and lower intelligence, statistically speaking too. Are black people, generally speaking, violent dumbasses compared to other races? Yeah, if you're dumb enough to take those statistics at face value. In reality, it's because those people happen to be poorer on average. You'll find that all poor people, regardless of race, suffer from the same effects. Yeah, even the ones that weren't decedents of slaves in this country. Our country should help all those poor people, not just the black ones. My argument is that race shouldn't be an issue, you're basically saying it should. You can't have it both ways though, either every race is equal or it isn't. I'm sure as hell not going to consider someone who needs a handicap despite the fact that they're in the same exact situation as me as an equal. Your choice, you either want to widen the racial divide or work to eliminate it.

Also, I'm not poasting another one of these epic double-poasts again. Fuck that. Let's try to narrow it down a bit in the future, yo. XD

Edit: Just saw this:

I'd have to see the actual statistics to be sure, but I'd guess it's because that 13% of crimes are mostly the kinds that get prison sentences. Such as drug selling, violent crimes, etc. And the stats are showing all crimes total, even the ones that don't carry jail-terms. Statistics can be mixed and matches to say pretty much anything. If you looked at stats for just people who commit violent crimes, robberies, and sell drugs, I'd bet anything that blacks account for more then 13%, for example. In other words, your statistics don't prove much here.