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View Poll Results: Who would win?
Jiraiya 135 80.36%
Orochumaru 20 11.90%
tie 13 7.74%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-12-2008, 10:12 PM   #76
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

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Originally Posted by Distortion View Post
The only thing I see that Orochimaru has on anyone would be the regenerating thing, man that woulda helped Jiraiya out a shit load in the Pain fight, as well as Edo-Tensai. Orochimaru does possess thousands of jutsus which would essentially be beneficial for certain circumstances if brought out, but Jiraiya is packing more pure generated power than Orochimaru and probably has more Stamina as well.
Not to mention those jutsu he "has" have never been shown even though he had like what the part 1 and half of part 2 to do it.

Until i see anything of those jutsu i won't believe it and like you said jiraiya packs more then oro and his jutsu are far more deadly there is no way oro is getting out of hell swamp or taod stomach not unless he can breath under blood or has amaterasu.

And there is no way he is getting into that barrier unless he has a way of being able to get sliced in half and still live.

Jiraiya is just to kick ass in the begining oro was better but as time went by the true great rose above the other 2 same with naruto and sasuke sasuke is good while they are young but eventually naruto will be far more powerful then sasue could even imagine.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:22 PM   #77
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

Naruto will be far more powerfull than Sasuke because he has the need and desire to save Sasuke, bring him back, get his acceptance, and become Hokage. Jiraiya didnt even want to be Hokage. He couldnt bring Orochumaru back and so he spent his life tracking him and his actions, and still dint see the attack on Konoha coming. He lived a simple life after leaving Konoha. Orochumaru continued with his goal in life which was to be the greatest shinobi by creating, learning, and posessing endless jutsu.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:23 PM   #78
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

well the first time they faught, oro won.

I think if jaraiya went hermit mode, he would own him.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:34 PM   #79
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

For all he know Jiraiya did. As Jiraiya stated, Naruto's and Sasuke's sutuation was a lot like his and Orochumaru's. That's when he had the flashback and told Naruto that Sasuke was no friend and that he should give up. Naruto and Sasuke went all out on each other. I would think that Orochumaru and Jiraiya would have gone all out too. Jiraiya trained at Toad Mountain as a child so when he and Orochumaru fought, he was at his peak. He had already had his Toad Mountain training. With his traveling the world writing books and spying on Orochumaru and Akatsuki, he didnt have much time to train or invent new great skills, or else he probably would have been able to go in Hermit Mode ON HIS OWN.

I should have asked who would win with talents and jutsu, and modes that they can USE and GO INTO ON THEIR OWN. The power doesnt have to be theirs but they can use it without outside help. This thread would have still had the same result. I bet money on it.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:49 PM   #80
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

I vote it's be a tie. Orochimaru impress me by holding up pretty good agains a 4 tails Naruto, & getting own by Sasuke the guy was at a weaken state it was a handicapped match. In a other thread i remember u guys saying sasuke would get own by a 4 tail Naruto but Orochimaru hold up pretty well.
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:36 PM   #81
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

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Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
For all he know Jiraiya did. As Jiraiya stated, Naruto's and Sasuke's sutuation was a lot like his and Orochumaru's. That's when he had the flashback and told Naruto that Sasuke was no friend and that he should give up. Naruto and Sasuke went all out on each other. I would think that Orochumaru and Jiraiya would have gone all out too. Jiraiya trained at Toad Mountain as a child so when he and Orochumaru fought, he was at his peak. He had already had his Toad Mountain training. With his traveling the world writing books and spying on Orochumaru and Akatsuki, he didnt have much time to train or invent new great skills, or else he probably would have been able to go in Hermit Mode ON HIS OWN.

I should have asked who would win with talents and jutsu, and modes that they can USE and GO INTO ON THEIR OWN. The power doesnt have to be theirs but they can use it without outside help. This thread would have still had the same result. I bet money on it.

What is your deal with Orochimaru being better than Jiraya anyway? I'm being serious and not mean so don't take it personally again. The reason Mikey, Nami and me (when I feel like I have something worthwhile to say) nitpick your wording and statements is to fully help you understand why you're wrong about who's stronger.. a.k.a. a discussion or proving a point for either side, isn't that why you said you made this thread? I didn't read the Versus thread so I don't know anything about that, but within this thread the evidence has been presented and the result is clear to almost everyone but you. So what's the big deal? Don't make a thread like this if you're not willing to be proven wrong. And no I didn't expect my post to be the last, I was just putting in my two cents just like you and just like everyone else.

As for specific reasons why I choose Jiraya over Orochimaru:

Oro beats out Jiraya in only a few catagories; number of jutsu, knowledge of kinjutsu, elemental versatility (meaning he has shown us knowledge of more potent elemental jutsu)

I think they tie on speed based on what we've seen, but seems like Jiraya needs the hermit mode power up to match Oro's so take that however you want.

Oro's Kinjutsu takes way too much time to set up. Edo tensei suddenly becomes useless. Oro's speed is better initially so I'm sure he'd get some good blows in either physical or jutsu, but Jiraya wins against that with long lasting endurance and better phsyical strength. Oro can do his substitution jutsu a bunch but as we saw with 4TK and how Sasuke can only use it once at his current level it takes a large toll and a lot of chakra.

Jiraya's mane and sensing jutsu don't really come into play since Oro doesn't hide himself too often or get caught unawares, despite his jutsu and deceptive nature he hasn't really shown us that he hides during fights except with his doton kawarimi. In the end Jiraya wins probably with Hermit Mode in my opinion because he needs the speed and strength powerup and Oro seems especially weak to genjutsu (thinking of when he lost to Itachi first and second times, and to Sasuke), which we haven't ever seen Jiraya use Genjutsu otherwise. SoTU might be useful with Hermit Mode since Oro is pretty quick and Jiraya would again need the speed powerup to execute it properly. Not to mention his jutsu quality which is already pretty destructive (toad stomach, regular rasengan already own destructively), and then in Hermit Mode his speed and destructiveness are raised even higher (thinking pan fryer fire jutsu and Ultimate Rasengan).

Overall ability is about the same in my opinion, do I think Oro was stronger during their genin days? Yes. Did you see or were told the result of their first real fight when they were Jounin? NO. You only know that they are both alive and that they fought. What kind of assumption would a normal person make knowing only those two things.. that it was a draw.

It's already been said that Jiraya fought the Pein bodies along his journey so you really can't say he wasn't doing anything that you ASSUME he was doing. What about Oro? How much of a time investment do you think it was to establish his multiple hideouts, vast network of lackeys, information. What about his time with Akatsuki? We don't what he was doing other than chasing Itachi. Was he creating new jutsu, probably, but how much of that have we seen? Not anymore than Jiraya has.

Oro's big hits would come from his tongue/snake stretching, kawarimi jutsu, and the sword of kusanagi, possibly a couple high speed + elemental jutsu combos. But even Tsunade took hits from the sword and was still standing so I dunno. And Jiraya could always possibly use his mane armor jutsu to block a killing blow.

Another way you could look at it is -

Itachi>Oro + Sasuke (as stated by Sasuke)
Jiraya> Itachi + Kisame (as stated by Itachi)

or

Taijutsu (speed and ability): Tie
Genjutsu: Oro unless Jiraya is in hermit mode
Ninjutsu: Jiraya because of Toad Stomach, Ultimate Rasengan

So there it is, evidence, charts, graphs, comparisons the whole nine. Ultimately the third comparison plus the current evidence as given by the manga is why I think Jiraya FTW with Hermit Mode.

Let me make this clear too, Jiraya doesn't lose without Hermit Mode, but he possibly doesn't win either. Why? Because we don't know how Oro would or could deal with Toad Stomach, SoTU or other similar jutsu. He doesn't have Ameratsu but who knows, I know I'm not willing to assume on that one. So without Hermit Mode I percieve a draw, Hermit mode would be just the perfect edge to take a landslide win.

Edit: Soooo basically I just represented a lot of the posts mikey has already said but with what I think about Oro too.. :P

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Old 04-13-2008, 03:51 PM   #82
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

Long story short, I cant prove anybody wrong and nobody can prove me wrong. I was just looing for other opinions. I knew coming into this thread that more people would vote for Jiraiya. I didnt think it would be so many more but I knew it would happen. Fact is their is no proof so cant nobody PROVE me wrong but Kishi. Anyone can make a strong arguement either way as U, MIKE, and Nami have and I feel that I also did based on FACTS from the Manga as well as commen sense, even though common sense sometimes seems different for other people. I appreciate your comment and the fact tht u came into it saying that u were not trying to be mean, but until Kishi has Tsunade state it,or he states it in an interview that Jiraiya is better, I will continue to favor Orochumaru. I never made this thread to be be enlightened. I have a pretty vivid memory of most of the qualities and abilities that Orochumaru and Jiraiya have. I just wantede to make a thread solely to discuss and hear other opinions on this subject. If by my OPINION being HIGHLY voted against means that "I lost" in this thread then o.k. "I lost". But I still believe that Orochuamru was better.
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:57 PM   #83
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

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Long story short, I cant prove anybody wrong and nobody can prove me wrong. I was just looing for other opinions. I knew coming into this thread that more people would vote for Jiraiya. I didnt think it would be so many more but I knew it would happen. Fact is their is no proof so cant nobody PROVE me wrong but Kishi. Anyone can make a strong arguement either way as U, MIKE, and Nami have and I feel that I also did based on FACTS from the Manga as well as commen sense, even though common sense sometimes seems different for other people. I appreciate your comment and the fact tht u came into it saying that u were not trying to be mean, but until Kishi has Tsunade state it,or he states it in an interview that Jiraiya is better, I will continue to favor Orochumaru. I never made this thread to be be enlightened. I have a pretty vivid memory of most of the qualities and abilities that Orochumaru and Jiraiya have. I just wantede to make a thread solely to hear other opinions on this subject. If by my OPINION being HIGHLY voted against means that "I lost" in this thread then o.k. "I lost". But I still believe that Orochuamru was better.
If you say so. I don't think the poll draws objective people either though :/ lol You're right though, even with all the evidence I would love to hear it from the man as to where everyone stands. Where are all these databooks everyone always talks about?
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:03 PM   #84
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

I could say almost tie but overall Jiraiya would have to win by my From knowledge
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:37 AM   #85
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

you forgot the topic.. the topic is, who will win in orochimaru-jiraiya battle.. not who has the better death..
i think u also forgot the battle of three sannins, it take jiraiya and tsunade to beat orochimaru.. and take note, orochimaru is handicapped there, even though that jiraiya was drunk and tsunade is out of herself, orochimaru is still more handicapped because he cannot create any hand seals..

and u said that sasuke killed orochimaru, maybe yes, the reason for that is orochimaru is already weak, and he did not fight sasuke but he only transfer to sasuke's body, but sasuke resist.. its also the same case of itachi..

in battle of jiraiya and pein, pein only played jiraiya.. pein didnt show all of his power there..

so if jiraiya and orochimaru fights, i think 60 percent orochimaru will win..
the reason? orochimaru is very hard to kill...

but if the question, who is the better sensei, it is 100 percent that jiraiya is better than orochimaru..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyM1979 View Post
Uh huh.

Orochimaru tried to learn every jutsu by trying to gain the Sharingan. Now, had he been the genius you say he is, he would have known his quest was full of pure failure the second he was owned by Itachi. And Itachi was a CHILD. After that, he lived the rest of his life as Sasuke's bitch. Some life he lived.

Let's compare how both of their lives were ended, shall we?

Jiraiya was killed by Pain, the leader of Akatsuki. Who is a Rinnegan user, Rinnegan, being superior to Sharingan and Byakugan. And it took Pain six of his bodies to take Jiraiya down. And Jiraiya actually KILLED Pain's bodies FOUR times.

Now let's look at how Orochimaru died. Sasuke killed him in his real form, then took the poor homeless snake in as his bitch. Then he was killed by a damn near dead Itachi.

I don't know about you, but Jiraiya died a better death.

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Old 04-17-2008, 01:43 AM   #86
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

J would win no evidence needed
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Old 04-17-2008, 02:32 AM   #87
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

I think that the fight would be a tie, Oro is a formidable opponent when you look at him, he beat the third....nuff said. That alone proves that Oro can hold his own, he even was able to fight 4Tk until he brought out the superblast rs. His replacement and other body puking/snake/neck stretching transforming jutsus are surprising, and even deadly with the sword of kusanagi.

Hermit mode is awesome, but all i really know of it is enhanced strength and speed, and the ma and pa jutsu's which Oro could evade, except for the sound genjutsu.

Jiraiya's various frog summons are awesome and powerful, and so are Oro's. I just think everyone is thinking low of Oro because he has been handicapped for a while, and he was surprised when he saw the legendary genjutsu sword when he was owned again, Jiraiya wouldnt even be able to survive that.
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Old 04-17-2008, 02:43 AM   #88
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

[
Quote:
QUOTE=KoNg;1491007]I think that the fight would be a tie, Oro is a formidable opponent when you look at him, he beat the third....nuff said.
He didn't beat shit alone he would die he needed a 3 one 1 2 of which were previous hokage plus himself against a 70 year old man and he still barely won.
Quote:
That alone proves that Oro can hold his own,
Yeah when you have 3 people ganging up on you and you are 70 not to mention 2 of which were kage powerful ones and couldn't be killed yeah veryyyy cool NOT!.
Quote:
he even was able to fight 4Tk until he brought out the superblast rs. His replacement and other body puking/snake/neck stretching transforming jutsus are surprising, and even deadly with the sword of kusanagi.
And almost got killed had he not run away.

Quote:
Hermit mode is awesome, but all i really know of it is enhanced strength and speed, and the ma and pa jutsu's which Oro could evade, except for the sound genjutsu.
Jiraiya doesn't need hermit mode because oro can't do jack shit about hell swamp if jiraiya is 100% or toad stomach unless orochimaru has the amaterasu oh wait.. he doesn't to bad or jiraiya can just jump in that barrier of his and oro can come in and get killed like pein did. . Not o mention jiraiya uses katon oro's element is wind lmfaoooo

Quote:
Jiraiya's various frog summons are awesome and powerful, and so are Oro's.
Only one problem gamabuntan can use ninjutsu manda can't do shit oh wait he is dead anyways and the other summons can be dealt with jiraiya's hairrrrrr just like pein's were. I
Quote:
just think everyone is thinking low of Oro because he has been handicapped for a while,
It's because comapred to jiraiya he is nothing it's because itachi and kisame ran from jiraiya it's because pein admitted to jiraiya losing only cause pein was able to with hold his secretit's because zetsu said pein to way to long because it was JIRAIYA AFTER ALL it's because he killed 4 peins in one fight taking out a key summoning pein for good It's because orochimaru got owned by children itachi at 11 sasuke at 15 then killed off for good at itachi 21 who could barely breath it's because nobody in aka was afraid of him yeah ya see the difference. It's also because jiraiya has shown various ninjutsu all super badd ass and powerful while orochimaru's shit is all,snakes,head stretching,biting his biggest feat was edo tensei which he need about like 10 years to prepere for before he could hadicapp the match against sarutobi.
Quote:
and he was surprised when he saw the legendary genjutsu sword when he was owned again, Jiraiya wouldnt even be able to survive that.
There is just one problem susanoo was out whe amaterasu and tsukuyomi were used seems to me like itachi couldn't use it before those other 2 at least that's how the manga portrays it. In whcih case itachi wouldn't be alive long enough to use susanoo.

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Old 04-17-2008, 03:39 AM   #89
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

Jiraiya fought with Pein, and at least put up a fight.
Orochimaru is so weak, he lost against Sarutobi and was no match for Itachi. It's safe to say that Pein is stronger than Itachi, so I think it's more than obvious that Jiraiya > Oro
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:09 AM   #90
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Re: Jiraiya or Orochumaru

pein-jiraiya battle is not a 100 battle, because pein played jiraiya, he did not use all of his techniques against jiraiya..

about orochimaru and itachi, orochimaru did not fight well against itachi because orochimaru's intention is not do defeat itachi but to transfer his soul to itachi..

bout sarutobi and orochimaru, sarutobi lost to orchimaru and not orochimaru lost to sarutobi.. sarutobi only inflicted a very high damaged to orchimaru..

and u forgot bout the battle of three sannins, it takes jiraiya and tsunade to beat orochimaru.. orochimaru is totally handicapped and still stands the battle how much more if he can create hand seals that the, even though jiraiya was poisoned and tsunade is out of herself...

therefore the battle between orochimaru and jiraiya, 60% for orochimaru to win, 40% for jiraiya to win..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha1412Toshi View Post
Jiraiya fought with Pein, and at least put up a fight.
Orochimaru is so weak, he lost against Sarutobi and was no match for Itachi. It's safe to say that Pein is stronger than Itachi, so I think it's more than obvious that Jiraiya > Oro
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