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Old 06-07-2008, 10:55 PM   #106
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
until u can show me proof that Itachi killed "innocent children" everthing u say is your opinion and I will keep mines until KISHI says otherwise.

Itachi killd his clan to prevent the possible destruction. How would Itachi killing "innocent children" have ben considered saving Konoha? They wouldnt know anything of the Uchiha/Konoha past or their future plans. Itachi would have no reason to kill them. Do u all forget why it was that Itachi killed his clan in the first place? U must
Yes. Are you kidding. Who's bashing Itachi? You're arguing in circles. Itachi killed his Clan to save his Village, True. Itachi killed his clan, a large clan, Which I assume there are Children in, children younger than Sasuke who is the only survivor of the Clan. It IS an opinion.
That and Don't call me an Itachi Hater!
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Old 06-07-2008, 10:59 PM   #107
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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Originally Posted by jsaviers View Post
Yes. Are you kidding. Who's bashing Itachi? You're arguing in circles. Itachi killed his Clan to save his Village, True. Itachi killed his clan, a large clan, Which I assume there are Children in, children younger than Sasuke who is the only survivor of the Clan. It IS an opinion.
That and Don't call me an Itachi Hater!
If u are gonna quote me then answer my question. Dont tell me your ASSUMPTIONS about how large u think Uchiha was and how there MUST have been children younger than Sasuke. U may be right and i may be wrong but u gotta show me where kishi at least implied that or else I care nothing of your unsupported opinion when I already have my own.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:00 PM   #108
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

I did say it was my opinion.
twice.
There question answered.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:05 PM   #109
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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I did say it was my opinion.
twice.
There question answered.
Itachi killd his clan to prevent the possible destruction. How would Itachi killing "innocent children" have ben considered saving Konoha?

This was my question that u did not answer. Try to stay with me if u are gonna keep addressing me
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:08 PM   #110
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
Itachi killd his clan to prevent the possible destruction. How would Itachi killing "innocent children" have ben considered saving Konoha?

This was my question that u did not answer. Try to stay with me if u are gonna keep addressing me
Who knows. That is why I said he became a "bad guy" because killing children is bad. How it could save his village, I don't know. But he was given an order, and nearly followed it to the letter, except Sasuke. He Struggled with his decision to betray his village or his clan, why would killing warriors who could fight you be hard. It had to be obvious that he sruggled with his decision because of the Woman, the children, and his family.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:11 PM   #111
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

My man, Itachi obviously had to shank some 'Chiha kiddies if he truly intended to murdalize the entire Uchiha clan. What, you thought Sasuke's dad was the last one to get some butt? There's probably some ultimate pimp Uchiha with super Sharingan herpes shagging up Uchiha chicks and giving them intense cataracts after he's done. So, that whole "Sasuke was the only kid" thing isn't flying.

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Old 06-07-2008, 11:15 PM   #112
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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Who knows. That is why I said he became a "bad guy" because killing children is bad. How it could save his village, I don't know. But he was given an order, and nearly followed it to the letter, except Sasuke. He Struggled with his decision to betray his village or his clan, why would killing warriors who could fight you be hard. It had to be obvious that he sruggled with his decision because of the Woman, the children, and his family.
Killing children is bad and it couldnt and wouldnt save the village since any non shinobi Uchiha would know nothing about this plan to overthrow the Hokage. Itachi killed uchiha to prevent their selfish plans. Uchiha"innocent children" were no threat to Konoha.

Is struggling with killing your own relatives and parents not enough? It just had to be children as well huh? Is killing your own relatives not enough, without even considering his parents in this? Sorry but it's not obvious to me. Just a difference of opinion. Until Kishi says otherwise, we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:19 PM   #113
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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Killing children is bad and it couldnt and wouldnt save the village since any non shinobi Uchiha would know nothing about this plan to overthrow the Hokage. Itachi killed uchiha to prevent their selfish plans. Uchiha"innocent children" were no threat to Konoha.

Is struggling with killing your own relatives and parents not enough? It just had to be children as well huh? Is killing your own relatives not enough, without even considering his parents in this? Sorry but it's not obvious to me. Just a difference of opinion. Until Kishi says otherwise, we will just have to agree to disagree.
Fine with me. I have to get to work on my report anyway. Nice debating with you. HAHA.
and sasuke really wasn't worth saving. Too bad isn't it.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:29 PM   #114
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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If u are gonna quote me then answer my question. Dont tell me your ASSUMPTIONS about how large u think Uchiha was and how there MUST have been children younger than Sasuke. U may be right and i may be wrong but u gotta show me where kishi at least implied that or else I care nothing of your unsupported opinion when I already have my own.
Its called common sense. When you have men and women and if they are married or if they arent married they have sex and when sex is involved kids usually develop , but you seem to think all the adults there were sterile for some damn reason.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:52 PM   #115
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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Its called common sense. When you have men and women and if they are married or if they arent married they have sex and when sex is involved kids usually develop , but you seem to think all the adults there were sterile for some damn reason.
True in the real world, with normal marriages where the mother and father are not off on missions, seperate missions sometimes, for days oe weeks at a time and their life is always in danger. Also, most warriors who concentrate on their powers and progressing as a warrior, make very little time for famillies or sex. Tsunade, Orochumaru, nor Jiraiya had no children, and Jiraiya loved the ladies. Sasuke's father was the head Uchiha and could and do what he pleased, as all head figuires do, plus after producing a child like Itachi, he probably though he could do it again with Sasuke. If Sasuke had been as talented as Itachi, he too would have probably been apart of the assasination as well.

u must not know about the normal life of married couples anyway. Normal married couples have less and less sex, the longer they are married, at least with one another. Now include these factors: U can be called away on a dangerous mission at anytime, u just got out of a war, and u are planning a near future civil war. Your main focus in life is the safety of your village and clansmen in a world where death of comerades and loved ones is a common thing.

They didnt have to be sterile, but from the time of war until after they gained control of Konoha, making and raising babies would not have been a good idea or in the best interest of their clan and their future plans. For all we know, they had birth control pills and condoms. Who knows. Maybe they were just responsible enough to pull out before the bussed so that they wouldnt bring a child into the world at the time.

common sense would tell me that there were more children within the clan if not for the circumstances and situation the Uchiha's were in. Common sense would tell me that if I saw one roach on the wall, there were probably more in the house, but there are such things as circumstances. If the house was freshly built, and just furnished the day before, common sense might tell me that either that roach was unknowingly brought in by the people who furnished my new house, or he singlehandedly wandered in there and decided to hang out on my wall. The circumstances involving the Uchiha would tell me that they would have common sense and try not to have any children during the time of war, until after they had gained control of Konoha.

Dont forget that this is Kishi's story. Kishi didnt say it so your common sense means nothing to me. goodnight
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:54 AM   #116
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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Originally Posted by ching1 View Post
You seemed to have misjudged what the source of the problem is. And I'm not telling you.
If you're not gonna give your argument a backbone, then fuck off.

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Originally Posted by Mystik View Post
i know i just dont agree with taking innocent uchiha's lives either.. so there lives arent as important as others.
There where no innocent uchiha other than Sasuke.

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Originally Posted by Mystik View Post
No innocent uchiha's so the kids there werent innocent and the older people werent innocent.
There is no proof that there where more uchiha kids, after all they would have also went to the academy and we would have known about them. As for the old people, they are not innocent, they are the ones who had this grudge against konoha to begin with.

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Yeah Yeah. But that's a Cop-Out. He killed children who were carefree about life.
You have no proof whatsoever that Itachi killed any children. The only Uchiha child that we know of in the series was spared.

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Hard to believe isn't it. Only Sasuke.
HAHAHA!
Not really hard actually, Sasuke was the only uchiha kid revealed. You can't simply add children out of the blue when Kishi himself did not. Yea the logical explanation says most of them had kids. But this is a manga, and logic doesn't apply.
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Old 06-08-2008, 02:20 AM   #117
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

Well said grimmjow.Last 20 post have all been about uchiha babies O_O ! Anyways,cant wait to see narutos emotion when hears the news of J-mans death...

a.) Do you think he will go rage and kill pein.
b.) will he go emo for a while,then go train to kill pein.
C.) Tsunade kills pein.

I think B + c?
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Old 06-08-2008, 03:32 AM   #118
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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Originally Posted by Grimmjow View Post
There where no innocent uchiha other than Sasuke.
you dont know that.



Quote:
There is no proof that there where more uchiha kids, after all they would have also went to the academy and we would have known about them. As for the old people, they are not innocent, they are the ones who had this grudge against konoha to begin with.
why on earth do you all seem to think sasuke's parents are the only ones with kids. Ummm no babies i am sure cant go to an academy and little children who cant walk cant go to an academy either.



Quote:
You have no proof whatsoever that Itachi killed any children. The only Uchiha child that we know of in the series was spared.
and i say again you have no proof that he didnt kill any children.



Quote:
Not really hard actually, Sasuke was the only uchiha kid revealed. You can't simply add children out of the blue when Kishi himself did not. Yea the logical explanation says most of them had kids. But this is a manga, and logic doesn't apply.
ummmm they dont add every single member of every single clan in the manga.. if thats the case kishi will have to come up with a lot of different names and people and faces.

edit: this is what Vengeance told me to post since he can't.

Sasuke was from the main bloodline in Uchiha as in the strongest family. His father fugaku was the clans leader & Itachi was well itachi, even if Sasuke didn't grow as fast as itachi he still grew at a faster pace then lesser uchiha childern would have meaning kids his age wouldn't be in the academy nor would they have active sharingan meaning they'd be mediocre nin. Also not everyone in the clan could awaken sharingan. Meaning there were adult civillians as in innocents.

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Old 06-08-2008, 03:43 AM   #119
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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The way I see it, Itachi wasn't reffering to himself, he was reffering to Madara. He knew that even though Sasuke hated him, he would be vulnerable after their fight. If Madara told Sasuke "the truth", there was a 50/50 chance that he could turn on Konoha depending on how Madara told him his side of the story.
Yes, he was definitely thinking of Madara but he created the foundation of finding strength in hate for Sasuke.

As far as all this talk about Uchiha babies, we are talking about a world here where the children are taught the art of fighting and killing, where these same children have their lives threatened by adults all the time, where orphans are left on the streets to be picked up by rogue ninja or are just provided an apartment to care for themselves. There doesn't seem to be any court systems. If you're guilty, you go on a hit list. Itachi and Madara killed all the other Uchihas except for Sasuke. You can assume there were other children or not, it doesn't seem to matter in Naruto's world. Who knows, besides Kishi, what the Uchihas were like. Maybe Itachi was the only good one, maybe the rest were as twisted as Sasuke is now. I would tend to doubt that but how else can Itachi be made into a protagonist? Up until now I would say Itachi, the good, only existed in Sasuke's mind but now Naruto is involved. Itachi's conversation with Naruto is supporting Madara's story.
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Old 06-08-2008, 04:39 AM   #120
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Re: Naruto 403 Discussions

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There were no innocent Ucihas. Uchiha was a warrior clan. Sasuke was probably the only Uchiha that had not already bcome an official shinobi. Itachi only killed Uchihas who were in on the takeover, which was every other Uchiha except for Sasuke. All the Uchihas were in on the plan to overthrow the Hokage, seize control of Konoha, and likely cause the destruction of Konoha due to otside villages attacking as well. Many innocent villagers, and genin, along with all higher ranking shinobi would have been killed during all this war.

I wouldnt agree with taking innocent lives either, but Uchihas were planning a takeover, and Sarutobi was even trying to keep the peace. We all know Sarutobi is an honerable man so Itachi's father and the other Uchihas must have been unreasonable and stubborn, as Uchiha seem to be, for them to not have made peace eventhough Sarutobi, the Hokage was trying hard.

Itachi had no other choice. Uchiha couldnt be resoned with when Sarutobi tried, so they wouldnt listen to him. The only thing Itachi could do to save the village was to exterminate his whole clan before they had the chance to start their civil war. If somebody is threatening the lives of a whole village for a selfish reason that could have been worked out, and they refuse to come to a peacefull decision, your only other option is to capture or kill them to prevent their plans from ever happening. Even if Uchiha were captured and jailed they could and probably would escape eventually. Itachi would have probably lost his life trying to capture all of them as opposed to killing them all, likelycatching as many as possible off guard or in his MS genjutsu to kill easily.


'the will of fire" that is necessary for the Hokage to have was not in the Uchihas because they were willing to risk the lives of their clansmem, fellow leaf shinobi, the villagers, and possibly even the Feudal Lord just because there had always been tension between Uchiha and Senju/Konoha and they were being closely watched by ANBU. Because of something so small and non threatening, Uchiha decided to rage a civil war. They were not innocent at all. Itaci was the only Uchiha shinobi innocent enough to put the safety of his village before all, just like all Hokage have done since the beginning of Konoha. How can u not see that Itachi was truly worthy of the title of Hokage for being brave, strong, and wise enough to put the safety of his village before his own family who were intentionally and maliciously jeporadizing the safety of his village as well as his little brother's safety.
I'm not going to touch the baby debate - I think Mystik pointed out it the best way one can, and if you still want to be in denial *shrug*

But don't sling mud at Saratobi just yet. Somehow I think that's one of the half-truths we are going to find out about later. I don't think Saratobi ever approved this attack - and when it happened he realized Sasuke was the key to bringing those responsible to justice. I think he had a patient plan in the works . . . but then Ochimaru came along anfd you know the rest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystik View Post
You really dont have a bit of sense at all do you. How on freaking earth do you think there were not any damn children there. There wasnt a listing of all people that were killed. Its not like they made some list saying these are all who died. Just as you cant prove he didnt kill any children either. Then again you also think tobi is obito too...
I think Tobi is Madara,who used Obito in some way to regeneate himself. There has to be an explaination for Madaras extended life, other than for that fact (and the whole one eye missing thing) the Obito theory is ridiculous.

So, I guess I take offense cuz I'm not silly enough to think that the innocent weren't also slaughtered. Kishi just chose not to show his "Anakin A" about to strike down little Johnny Uchiha while they were hiding in a corner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadlily View Post
Yes, he was definitely thinking of Madara but he created the foundation of finding strength in hate for Sasuke.

As far as all this talk about Uchiha babies, we are talking about a world here where the children are taught the art of fighting and killing, where these same children have their lives threatened by adults all the time, where orphans are left on the streets to be picked up by rogue ninja or are just provided an apartment to care for themselves. There doesn't seem to be any court systems. If you're guilty, you go on a hit list. Itachi and Madara killed all the other Uchihas except for Sasuke. You can assume there were other children or not, it doesn't seem to matter in Naruto's world. Who knows, besides Kishi, what the Uchihas were like. Maybe Itachi was the only good one, maybe the rest were as twisted as Sasuke is now. I would tend to doubt that but how else can Itachi be made into a protagonist? Up until now I would say Itachi, the good, only existed in Sasuke's mind but now Naruto is involved. Itachi's conversation with Naruto is supporting Madara's story.
This post desrves a rep . . . we can move along now!
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