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Old 06-29-2009, 12:51 PM   #1
DarkAztek
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Iran: Holy shit

So is anyone else really bothered about Iran right now? I know for a fact that I am. Unfortunately, it seems like the ending result of the unfair election is going to be the incumbent president still in office and nothing will change. The more liberal greenies are officially screwed out of democracy and Iran has clearly announced to the world just how corrupt it is.

If you look at the previous Islamic revolution in Iran back in the 70s, you'll find that it was about an authoritarian government going too far, abusing its power, and running the country opposite to the will of the people. Right now, Ahmuhmanah-manah is exactly doing the exact same shit that fired a revolution before... Except this time, the military isn't falling in line with the upset party. The crackdowns are getting more fierce every day and the greenies are getting pretty scared, perhaps too scared to fight back.

Obama condemned Iran's actions and many European countries did the same. Obviously, a wag of the finger does nothing more than getting Iran to say "LOL STFU!" to the world. So... My question is this: Should anything be done? If so, what?

Please back up your ideas.
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Old 06-29-2009, 01:36 PM   #2
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

We're dealing with a nuclear-capable country this time. Strategy changes when you have to worry about a country tactically nuking bases, Israel, and potentially starting WWIII. You can put all the sanctions you want, but they are the same extremist nutjobs that don't give a shit.

So do you send in troops to enforce democracy? Not when you are spread thin already. Besides, once you have started a war, they won't be as restrained from using nukes as we are. Sure we could wipe them off the map, but we don't need anymore enemies as it is.

My solution: let it all work out. If it doesn't, it isn't our problem. We already have too much on our plate as it is. I am more enthusiastic/interested about the possibility of N.Korea trying to hit Hawaii, so we can have a reason to show Kim Jong who's boss.

For the Iranian citizens to fully appreciate freedom, they have to fight tooth and nail to get it themselves.
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:17 PM   #3
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

I think we shouldn't do nothing let them have their fight, we should get more worried on the N.Korea situation, they want war and they're looking for someone to touch them. If they bomb Hawaii I'll seriously enlist, thats my surf mecca.
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Old 06-30-2009, 01:44 PM   #4
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

manta, stay on the topic of Iran. True, North Korea is some scary shit, but that's a totally different thread. The reason I want to focus on Iran is because of the different options that could play out.

For example, I wonder if the current "president" will offer Mousavi a high up job somewhere in the Iranian state government. In the past, a few African nations that had similar bullshit elections have done this and the peace was kept. It wasn't democracy, of course, but it at least appeased all of the millions that were pissed off. Perhaps the US could do a little Contra-like work and quietly give support to the Mousavi people? Would this even stand to benefit the US? How so?
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:39 PM   #5
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

The focus should remain on resolving Afghanistan, Iraq and preventing further uprisings in Pakistan right now. If Iraq is stabilised Iran is likely to be somewhat more amiable with the foreign countries involved.

Iran's election was corrupt but at the same time many around the world are. Iran is much more like Zimbabwe and Burma, it's shit but it probably can be resolved over time with negotiations.

Israel and North Korea are the main problems as they're very well prepared, aggressive and they disregard the international community. Iran might be kicking diplomats out right now, but it's little different from Russia's games with the UK and US after the polonium 210 incident, cutting gas to Eastern Europe, and Georgia.

Also FG there's no confirmation Iran has nuclear weapons, they've been as abundant there as the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Israel is the only middle-eastern country to possess ICBMs. But yes, I agree with what you're saying. Regardless of intentions, letting a problem like this resolve itself from within is much better than using outside influences.

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Old 06-30-2009, 07:17 PM   #6
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

Nothing should be done. Helping Iran brings no benefit to the US. We are trillions of dollars in debt. For every Arab we kill ten more spring up in its place to haunt us.

Every time we go to war we have to lock down more on our security which takes away our own personal freedoms and individual rights. In the end, helping out Iran would not benefit the American individual whatsoever. That is all I really care about, being an individual living in America.
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:11 AM   #7
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

for a non-american point of view, i also agree that nothing should be done yet.

if the US intervenes at this point of time, they might attract the anger of not only the current Iranian government, but it's allies as well. internal government conflicts should be left alone by other countries. it should only be of concern by the US government, when the situation becomes threatening to other countries as well. if the US immediately intervenes, they might be branded by the international community as flexing their power on other small countries, and might get reprisals from other countries (like Korea) with the excuse that "If US meddles with IRAN's internal affairs, they might meddle with ours as well. so we attack first to stop US intervention."

i use this sentiment because countries who already hold grudges on the US will use any reason they might get in order to justify an attack. no matter how whimsical they could be.
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:41 AM   #8
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

Personally I feel like the USA has spent far too much of its time flexing its muscles over the last 5 decades since WWII. Constantly portraying itself as the world police, negotiator and peacemaker. All the while pursuing one ultimate goal; get an influential hand in as many cookie jars as possible.

Quote:
Helping Iran brings no benefit to the US.
Quote:
Would this even stand to benefit the US? How so?
These 2 quotes kinda sum it up for me. Iraq was supposedly all about the Human rights violations and possible WMD's. What can America get out of it? The same satisfaction they always pretend to get when they "Bring democracy to a suffering nation".
If American intentions were true then Zimbabwe would have been invaded and sorted out by America Years ago.

As far as the world is concerned, Quiet diplomacy is all that should be done, as has been done in Zimbabwe over the last few years. Invading a country does not bring peace, it brings war. If your worried about the human suffering, join green peace or a human rights organization and try to get over there and make a difference.

Let Iran sort its own shit out and let the world leaders help guide things through diplomatic discussion. And let that be that.
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Old 07-02-2009, 01:47 PM   #9
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

Nothing to be gained from Iran? Oh I don't know about that... Besides the obvious, such as all that fucking oil they're sitting on, the USA stands to gain quite a bit from helping out Iran. It all depends on how we do it. You see, we don't exactly stand very well with most Palestinian countries. Between Israel, our global policing, our totally different culture, AND the fact that we're "rich" and don't give a fuck, the USA is fairly hated.

Now imagine that we can change this trend. Let's say we help calm the waters and get a more moderate person like Mousavi into office. Don't you think he would remember that we helped him? Don't you think that between a favor to a new president AND setting the tone that the USA now wants nothing more than the Arab world to be better is a good thing? True, it might make us look more like meddlers... But I guess it's all in how things are done.

On the other hand, we could continue to condemn Iran and do nothing. That's the lame duck strategy. We gain nothing except the ire of the current president, Obama doesn't look like a war-hawk to his supporters, and the UN continues to suck USA dick.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:09 PM   #10
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Re: Iran: Holy shit

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Originally Posted by DarkAztek View Post
Nothing to be gained from Iran? Oh I don't know about that... Besides the obvious, such as all that fucking oil they're sitting on, the USA stands to gain quite a bit from helping out Iran. It all depends on how we do it. You see, we don't exactly stand very well with most Palestinian countries. Between Israel, our global policing, our totally different culture, AND the fact that we're "rich" and don't give a fuck, the USA is fairly hated.
We would sit fine with them if we backed out. Also, you assume that we will get that oil. You assume that they will be generous and give us the oil simply because we get rid of the dictator. I don't think it would be safe at all unless we have a guarantee. And again, fighting more Arabs will create way more enemies than we need. The things terrorists can do these days...

Quote:
Now imagine that we can change this trend. Let's say we help calm the waters and get a more moderate person like Mousavi into office. Don't you think he would remember that we helped him? Don't you think that between a favor to a new president AND setting the tone that the USA now wants nothing more than the Arab world to be better is a good thing? True, it might make us look more like meddlers... But I guess it's all in how things are done.
The problem with the US right now is we want to look like the good guy of the world. We still believe that since we have the power we have (which we are slowly losing) that we must bear the responsibility. We must send relief kits oversees, speak out against the newest dictatorship, etc. It is a waste of our time. Selflessness is bullshit. America should be caring more about itself. We need to stop intervening in the world and give ourselves some healing time.
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