Veggiegirl101

Where in my post did I ever specifically state what it is that you have written? You will not find it there because it is not what I wrote. Twisting my words to fit your own opinions is not commendable, blaming every bad thing that happens on God is also irresponsible. Just because a person is not healed does not mean that they were 'murdered' as you've termed it, by God. How ridiculous is that? I will also die one day, but will I say that God murdered me? No, not at all. Death is a part of life, a phase if you will and then we pass on to the next life.

Trey

I laughed.

Trey

I also laughed at this.

kimm21

we have no more proof than any other religeon

__________________
Proud Member of Jiraiya FC
Proud Member of Final Fantasy FC
Proud Co- Owner of the Lost Shinobi Heroes FC
BROOKLYN RAGE!!!

Miles T

I’m surprised that as someone who has presumably read the Bible—probably several times, at least in part—you are unable to think of any parts of it that dictate inequality between males and females.

First off, presumably you refer to how Jesus allegedly died so his followers could proselytise; to the best of my knowledge, the Church—which is an institution—was not formed until after Jesus is said to have died.

Second, that it dictates that males should love their wives doesn’t change the fact that the wives are ‘supposed to’ be forced into a position of submission.

Homosexual behaviour has been documented in many non-human species. Homosexuality is not a behaviour only exhibited by humans. It is ‘natural’.

Claiming something to be wrong because it is ‘unnatural’ is fallacious. The common perception (i.e., the perception you used above) is problematic because it stems from a false dichotomy between (certain) human ‘actions’ and non-human events. Everything in the Universe is nature by definition, and thus everything is natural.

Your belief doesn’t change the facts. The potential for homosexuality is not a choice, as evidenced by numerous studies and as agreed by several reputable authorities. Even if homosexuality were an avoidable choice, it still wouldn’t be ‘wrong’.

Aye. The stereotypes you refer to are eerily similar to the gender roles society sets out.

I didn’t think that suffering for over fifty-eight years was evidence of God’s existence. How ironic and sadistic it is that God lets his creations suffer so much for nothing and then preaches, ‘Love thy neighbour as thyself.’ How ironic it is that Christians who parrot, ‘Love thy neighbour as thyself,’ agree with the subjugation of females, homosexuals and a plethora of other innocent groups.

I’m not sure how many times you need to be told before it will sink in that citing the Bible does not constitute evidence here. We’re discussing the validity of Christianity’s assertions, so we do not start on the assumed basis that Christianity is correct; that would be circular. One wouldn’t try to prove a defendant guilty or innocent by starting on the assumed basis that they were guilty.

Note also that a fortunate turnaround in life does not necessarily constitute evidence of God’s existence. Such events can be explained with rational methods, and using the Christian God as an explanation is merely using one of an infinity of explanations whipped up out of thin air.

You don’t know that God exists. You believe that God exists. At the end of the day, this is the Debates Section; it isn’t intended for people to throw out whatever ‘beliefs’ they have with the mere justification of ‘I believe it.’ Belief holds no value as a currency of truth; belief is the same as ‘because I say so.’ You wouldn’t accept it if someone said, “I know that God doesn’t exist.” You wouldn’t accept it if someone said, “I know that black people are subhuman.” You wouldn’t accept an infinite number of things that are just bare assertions. Christianity isn’t any different and selectively believing that what you believe is knowledge is delusion, plain and simple.

For that matter, why do you side with Christianity as opposed to Islam, Hinduism or some other religion that could explain your life, or even any of the infinite esoteric beliefs that could explain it?

Miles T

I’m sorry to tell you that whoever told you that was feeding you theist propaganda. If there were scientific evidence of God’s existence so solid and widely agreed that it were part of the United States curriculum for collegiate physics, do you really think we would be having this argument?

Unbidden climate change and nuclear ‘apocalypse’ are serious threats to humanity. That is not to say that they are likely ones. There is not only the nuclear deterrent but also the fact that there aren’t even enough nuclear weapons now or projected to wipe out the entirety of humanity.

Climate change is the more plausible threat, but is still very unlikely to eradicate humanity due to our gradual steps against it and general human adaptability.

And if religion didn’t make billions of people adopt backwards beliefs that hold back humanity, the world would have even fewer problems than if everybody loved each other.

~

You are going to convince me with neither faith nor testimonials nor the Bible. I understand that it is difficult for you to argue without the premise that Christianity is undeniable truth, presumably due to years of reinforcement from the Church and possibly parents, probably from a young age. However, your trying to convince me of Christianity’s validity by regurgitating what you have been indoctrinated to believe is fruitless. To answer my own question from earlier, the only reason why you side with Christianity as opposed to some other faith is because of how you have been proselytised by agents of the former.

Veggiegirl101

I believe in Jesus Christ because of what He has said and done. His actions are selfless. He never put Himself and His own needs first, but instead He did God’s will and served people all throughout His time on the earth. Jesus Christ lived/lives love 24/7. There are so many instances where his love and compassion, forgiveness, and mercy are shown clearly.
For example there was a woman who was caught in adultery (This is a Paraphrasing/Summary of what took place in a story from the Bible.), the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law took her out to the temple courts where Jesus was teaching and had her stand in front of everyone. They told Jesus that they had found her committing adultery and in the Law, Moses commanded that such women should be stoned. Then they asked Jesus what he thought of this in order to trap Him so that they could basically bring charges against Him on what He would say.
He bent over and began to write on the ground with his finger and when they continued to question Him, Jesus said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Then He started to write on the ground again…
Once He said this gradually the people who were going to stone the woman left, the oldest leaving first, the only one’s left were Jesus and the woman.
After this Jesus stood up and asked, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" And she says, “No one sir.”(because they left after Jesus said what He said because everyone besides Jesus sins…) and Jesus basically said that He doesn’t condemn her either…instead He tells her to sin no more.

This would be the meaning of the scripture

“I desire mercy not sacrifice.” (Matthew 12:70

This shows several things about Jesus that I noticed that captivates me about him.
-He will defend a person or stand up for a person on their behalf.
-He is compassionate.
-He is loving.
-He is very merciful.
-He gives chances to people to start over again, just because you messed up or made a mistake doesn’t mean that that mistake is the end for you. There is someone there who is willing to help you get back on your feet.
-He is the Savior
Jesus Christ saves people from various things all of the time whether it’s sickness or disease, being possessed by a demon, being heartbroken, feeling empty, trying to get out of a certain lifestyle but not knowing exactly how or what to do to set yourself free, and saving people from their sins, a lot of times even saving people from themselves.
Jesus Christ is the Savior who gave up everything so that He could teach us what it really means to live a full life, what this life that we live, what it’s all about…Then with His actions He showed what His words meant. He showed people this love that He was speaking about, what it means to love your neighbor as yourself and to love God more than anything else.
He died for me and you, and this is why I believe in Jesus Christ.
What captivates me about Him, what makes me want to know Him more, is the love that He has for me. Because He loved me I now love Him. His love is a perfect thorough all encompassing love that I have not found anywhere else not in men, not in Buddhism, not in Islam, not in the Shinto religion and not in Hinduism either, neither in the African religions either. This kind of love can not be found anywhere else but in Jesus Christ.
This is something that I learned in time. I was searching for love and the love that I was looking for could only be satisfied completely by Jesus Christ. I lack nothing now, there is nothing that I want, explaining this is sort of a challenge but I will try my best…all that I want is in Jesus Christ, He fulfills my every need. Even when my heart is broken which it was just a couple of weeks ago...I was sort of betrayed I guess you could say by a really close friend and it hurt a lot. I did everything that I could to save our friendship because this person means a great deal to me but as of now we’re only on terms of acquaintances I guess, like if I’m lucky “hi and bye” terms.
I love this person a lot, and I care and forgave this person for the way that this person wronged me, yet my heart was still broken, the pain was still very real and very present.
But the amazing thing is that I was able to have joy in my heart at the very same time that I was feeling this pain. I was crying and smiling at the same time. Crying because of the pain that this dear friend caused me and smiling because of the love of the friend who is always with me. Jesus Christ’s love caused me to be joyful inspite of my pain and eventually is what mended my broken heart.
I believe in Jesus Christ because of His great love for us, because with Him I see real results, real changes, people change for the better, I’ve changed and become a new person I can testify to that. If you knew what I was before and what I am now…my friend, it’s completely amazing what the Lord can do in a person’s life. And He is for anyone, you don’t have to fix yourself first or try to be perfect in order to come to Jesus, you don’t have to try and change who you are all by yourself, with Jesus you just go, no questions asked just go, there is no blame or judging or anything like that because of where you’ve been or what you’ve done. You realize you need a Savior…then there He is, someone who’s willing and waiting on you to just go to Him because He will not force Himself on a person, it is ultimately left up to every person whether they will believe in Him or not, but He still laid down His life as a ransom for everyone else’s.
All of these things and many more make me chose Jesus Christ over anything else, I have had to study various other religions including the ones that I mentioned/ you (Miles T) mentioned previously. I actually don’t have a limited world view to be honest, if anything I need to work on my communication skills, sometimes what I want to say and try to say versus what comes out tends to be variant but I do try...I hope though that this does give you insight as to why I believe in/chose/remain as a Christian.
As you can probably see in an earlier post some people that once were Christians do sometimes fall away, sometimes it’s not permanent but things in life draw a person away from the Lord, whether it be circumstances or situations. With me, I am drawn to Christ because of Him, the way that He is, things about Him and His qualities draw me in closer to Him. What really gets to me like I said many times before and I seriously mean this, is His love, I can’t get over that, it baffles me at times, to be loved so much by someone and sometimes I wonder why does He love me so much, even when I’m acting ridiculously He has never given up on me when other people did, He never stopped pursuing me when I was lost, He didn’t let go of me and was willing to be there through thick and then…I haven’t found someone this dedicated to me anywhere else.
If you really looked into Him you would find no blame in Him. This is not an order or anything like that I’m just inviting you too look into Him if you so choose, after all it is your choice. Every person must decide for themselves what they want to do. I’ll share and point Him out to you, but in the end the decision is all up too you.
I hope you all are having a wonderful day! God bless.

Veggiegirl101

This is John 8:1-11, what I summarized above...

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." (John 8:1-11)

P.S for the previous post above this one...
I also like the fact that I am challenged to be unselfish and to think about others before myself. I like being told to love others the way that I love myself and to love God with all my heart, mind, and soul. It's rewarding because when you start to do these things your eyes are opened up, from my own experience to see people beyond their appearances. You're challenged to hear their hearts when they speak and to see the real them on the inside, which is something that has become really important to me along with trying to be like Jesus!

Thank you for asking me Miles T

ButtholeSurfer

I believe Christianity to be a false but that it has some morals to follow though this is greatly outweighed by a ton of other shit it says. Another thing I don't like about it is how people will use it as a foothold to get ahead, especially in America, where many fundamentalists exist and they really seem to be the only people I can't tolerate.

Tabris

i totally remember why i stopped coming here now
i would like examples of the morals the bible says we should have that are controversial, keep in mind some of the rules changed in the new testament because god created a way to premanently rid us of sin, instead of temporary sacrifices.

many morals we see in christianity are mixed up with people who make thier own rules and happen to [claim to] be christians. i admit i don't follow all the rules, my morals are a bit messed, but i'm not god, so i can't be perfect

every time some one starts a debate about opinions it turns into a big angry hatefest.


anyways, as for letting us suffer, God told us to be 'stewards of the earth"
he made it and gave it to us.

He also gave us free will, and he only steps into our lives if we ask him to. the invitation is always there, but he wont do anything till you say it's ok.
now on that note, with free will how can you expect every christian to listen to god? can you expect them to be perfect when we are still human?


i find it funny that we hurt each other, that we make ourselves suffer and yet it's Gods fault.


ah yes, like the crusades: with great power comes great responsability; at the time the church was also the government and a pope became greedy, and set the crusades in motion for monitary gain.
Something God is blamed for, but was actually caused by human fault.
Christians (or in this case catholics... there's some big differences, but don't get me started) can lie to. we can also be mislead and misinterprit things. We make mistakes to.


also, you pointed out that quoting the bible isn't proof, so when you are debating peoples opinions and theorys on Christianity what else are we supposed to use? this debate was meant for the use of the bible.

the only other thing you can use in a debate about opinions is your own personal experiences and faith.


so if we could continue with a serious debate about theory and opinions we might be able to get back on track, like what the origional post said we're supposed to be talking about.


sorry i didn't make alot of points, but i find it hard to debate when there's no real debate going on, just argueing. it hurts my brain.

__________________


C&H FTW

official co-owner of the digimon fan club!

Mal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris ...ah yes, like the crusades: with great power comes great responsability; at the time the church was also the government and a pope became greedy, and set the crusades in motion for monitary gain. ...

Clarification on the Cursades:

There were more than a dozen crusades, only about 9 of them to the Holy Land, but the one we're concerned with is the first:

Alexius I Comnenus, emperor of the Byzantine Empire (remaining eastern portion of the ex-Roman Empire) felt threatened by the rising Muslim power just east of his capitol city of Constantinople, and sent to Pope Urban II for reinforcements to protect his city.

Urban took advantage of this and called for a crusade to regain the Holy Land, offering indulgences for all who participated. Basically, Catholics (at the time, at least) believe that you also have to live a good life to go straight to Heaven, or you go to Purgatory. An indulgence is the Pope "giving" you the good deeds "stored up" by saints so that you don't have to pay your own debt in Purgatory, essentially a free trip to Heaven. Obviously, people liked this idea (so much so that 40,000 unskilled peasants pillaged their way across Comnenus' Empire to be promptly slaughtered by a small Muslim army).

Urban lead the way for all the later Crusades, which were all less successful but just as corrupt as previous ones (except for, I believe, the 6th, but that's a different story).

Scarecrow

belief holds no value as the currency of truth?
if u shared the same beliefs as veggie u wouldnt lay an attack on her

and wow, some of u guys are really making me nervous with your clever remarks such as
"there is no proof that god exists"
well guess what - theres no proof that god doesent exist
so u put your belief that there is no god as a logical belief?
and a belief that there is a god as an illogical belief?
could u explain to me how logic works please............

u dont have the evidence that god doesent exist so what facts are u using to disprove the existence of god? (u never saw him?)
u cant disprove the existence of god with facts.
so u disprove the belief in god, that is a much simpler task- u just say that there is no proof that god exists

__________________

Mal

Scarecrow makes a valid, though confusingly worded and slightly rammbling point.

Just because you can "prove" the Big Bang and Darwin's Origin of Species doesn't mean you've refuted the existence of a god.

Regardless, this thread is opinions on Christianity, not a general belief in God.

Miburo

Prove flying invisible space turtles don't exist. And while you're at it how about you disprove the existence of gnomes, fairies, magic talking blueberry muffins, and ever other completely made-up entity that I can think up.

Then when you fail to do that give me one rational reason why you don't believe in all of those things, despite the fact that they all have the exact same probability of existing as God does. Good luck with that.

Fact is, if someone makes a claim then it is his duty to supply credible proof that supports his claim. If you claim that God exists then you have to prove it for it to be taken seriously. If not, then the logical approach is to assume the default. Which in this case is non-existence. Just like we operate as if trolls and fairies and flying invisible space turtles don't exist even though we can't actually prove they don't. Because there isn't any credible reason to believe that they do.

Scarecrow

prove to me that god doesent exist
i will look ridiculous trying to prove that god exist to smart people like you guys,
but you would also look ridiculous to me trying to prove that god doesent exist

__________________