100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved - Fandom Forums
Fandom Forums



Go Back   Fandom Forums > Anime & Manga > Naruto Series > Naruto Manga

Naruto Manga Talk about the manga series Naruto here! Remember, this is manga only. No anime!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2008, 06:56 PM   #1
cheanster
Chuunin
 
cheanster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: on the computer
Posts: 427
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
cheanster is on a distinguished roadcheanster is on a distinguished road
Proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi

I found this somewhere else and wanted to see what you guys think



Ok, this thread was origanily going to be the disproval of the Madara=Obito theory once and for all, but what follows is a six hour investigation of every shippunden chap so far

First of all i do not believe Madara is inhabiting Obito's body, i believe it is indeed obito masquerading (excuse the pun) as Madara, and i'll explain why.
The Madara that history depicts is a warrior, lived for the battle and did not get other's to do his dirty work. This current Madara has not shown one single offensive jutsu, in every single appearance he is playing the fool and constantly fleeing.
Now why would a century old powerhouse attempt to change his ways all of a sudden.

Now this raises questions of where the real Madara is, i believe he is in fact dead why would he, if he wanted to ensure konoha's downfall not attack after Oro's failed takeover attempt, Konoha was in a state of disrepair, without a Hokage and was ripe for the taking, The Madara who the Shodaime and the Yondaime battled would not have wasted the oppurtunity.

How did he die you ask, i pose a different question back to you how would he live so long? The sharingan does not on any level grant any form of eternal youth if it does plz provide manga proof. Now Madara had already fought the first and lost and at that time we would give him a generous age of about 25, now the second time he attacked Konoha would have had to been at least 74 years later, Sarutobi had already completed his first reighn as hokage and was at least in his early fifties. This would put Madara at 99 years old. Now imagine a 99 year old, albeit a very powerful 99 year old man going all out in a last ditch effort to destroy Konoha. He loses a very hard fight and resigns himself to death his body is spent and he has no chakra.



Madara and Zetsu share a trust Madara doesn't share with anyone else and Zetsu seems to have previous and full knowledge of all "Madara's" plans


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/17/


We know almost next to nothing about zetsu other than the fact the talks to himself but when he is in the presence of Madara and they are alone there is no double speak and Madara refered to himself and Zetsu as we. Now you may ask what does this have to do with Obito Pretending to be Madara. Imagine with me if you will you are trapped under a rock on the edge of death broken and battered because u pushed your newly made jounin squad leader out of the way of of a boulder that was going to crush him.


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/11/



you wake up and find your self bandaged and strapped down with plant stems and roots going in and out like iv's, and the only person you have to talk too is a weird venus flytrap looking guy who saved you. You ask ifif any has come looking for you and he tells you no they haven't. You ask him to visit your home village, and he tells you your name has been placed among the honored dead, and they didn't bother to look for you. That would kinda piss me off.

Zetsu is an enigma he seems to have sort of a watcher complex and besides Madara he is the only member of Akatsuki without any village headband at all. why is that you ask. Zetsu himself may be older than the shinobi villages. we see in nature how trees can be hundreds of years old. and he could he conceivebly healed obito and got him back up to strength. now i do believe that obito may be deformed over 85% of his body, have you noticed that every piece of clothing he has on covers every single inch of skin.

Now back to Zetsu if you notice all of Zetsu's and Madara's converstions are as they are equals he never speak to Zetsu as a subordinate and Zetsu doesn't speak to him as a leader.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/07/

They speak almost as friends, Now for what reason would Obito want to destroy Konoha i don't know, my theory is, that after Zetsu rescued and healed him, he stayed with Zetsu and started "watching" with Zetsu. So they could have seen the Fourth's and Madara's brawl, and when they saw Madara in his dying state he could have either extracted any info he wanted and Zetsu could have disposed of the body.

Itachi has already shown he doesn't respect "madara" neither does pein

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/04/ itachi called "madara" a loser


People seem to think Obitio was just an average Uchiha but the manga shows us differently, the first time obito's sharingan was activated was completely different from sasuke's. Obito could tell by looking at rin that she was placed in a Genjutsu, could tell how fast the oponet was, and the guy was standing still.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/05/

Now when Sasuke first activated his sharingan he was not able to see Haku's flow of chakra he couldn't even tell how fast lee was until it was to late, That right there is one unique trait obito posessed as an uchiha.

Now we have all seen several times in the Narutoverse that when bloodline users run out of chakra or are close to death their bloodline would stop being used. Obito is completely different from every other uchiha in this respect his sharingan NEVER TURNED OFF......think about, that even when he was under a boulder could not feel his right side and was dying it was still active.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/13/

How has no one ever noticed this!!!!!

How does this relate to Tobi you asked, I went through panel after panel after panel. trying to find one that shows Tobi either activating or deactivating his sharingan, and you know how kishi does it with the little "shing" sound effect, you will never find that on any of Tobi's panels.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/17/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/

even when he shows his sharingan to sasuke. sasuke's sharingans activates with the sound effect, but tobi once agin just has glare.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/06/

Kishi even puts emphasis on sasuke's sharingan regression with a sfx but tobi's will always stay on. Now the naysayers will say it stays on due to EMS, and that's what i thought but searched somemore and.....

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/18/

this is the real Madara with both MS and EMS We never see tobi with EMS

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/05/

And here we see the "real" Madara after obtaining EMS or as Kishi calls it perfet Mangekiyo deactivated. this should be evidence alone that Madara (real) and tobi are two different people. But i'll give you some more evidence.

I also asked myself then how did tobi obtain mangenkiyo, and it wasn't when he helped Itachi with the masacare because he didn't According to the manga everything Itachi told sauke has always been true, he may have manipulated everyone else but he was always blunt and direct with sasuke Sasuke would have remembered in his memories. We don't know how Kakashi got his MS, but i believe Obito's eyes where special and somehow are still linked, hell Obito accuatly glared at Kakashii, and you saw Kakshi's reaction.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/17/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/02/ Now if you are gonna honestly tell me that wasn't a personal gesture towards Kakahii, then what the fuck was it?

And one more thing, the two singularity techniques, Itachi who supposedly the stongest uchiha and had more talent in the sharingan then any other user, yet never exhibited any form of a space/time jutsu. but only two other Sharingan user's have, And no what Obito uses is not teleportation as confirmed by the manga.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/09/
once again look at Kakashii's reaction HOW THE FUCK DID I MISS THIS BEFORE!!!!!!

Now lets see the two techniques one after another

Kakshii's use on Deidara http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/05/

Obito's getaway jutsu http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/02/

OMFG AND I ALSO THOUGHT THIS WAS INTERESTING
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/13/ NOW COMPARE THE TWO HALVES OF FACES.


Kishi has been giving us hints long ago. and he said Kakashii was going to get screentime what bigger setup than this.

www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/

So in Summary Obito sacrifices hisself for Kakashi, gets angry when he realises that he given up as dead, swears vengance against Konoha, has a grudge against Kakshi for not watching out for Rin LIKE HE PROMISED. watches Madara and his former Sensei fight, he either finishes Madara off after taking his memories or talks to him and zetsu disposes of the body. and then takes up Madara's name because he knows it wil help him in the future. and you know what the Kiyubbi chakra didn't even react to obito i just realised that as well. And the 9tails could recognize his chakra a mile away.

So in conclusion i have prove (or at least i think i proved that Madara is not tobi, but tobi is Obito.
__________________



Last edited by cheanster; 09-29-2008 at 01:12 PM.
cheanster is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cheanster For This Useful Post:
jericho Uzimaki (08-15-2010)


Old 09-28-2008, 07:26 PM   #2
krurk
ANBU
 
krurk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 1,534
Thanks: 76
Thanked 669 Times in 311 Posts
krurk will become famous soon enoughkrurk will become famous soon enoughkrurk will become famous soon enough
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

That is a really good post, i do have to agree with it, you presented a lot of facts, and guesses but the guesses make a lot of sense. Do you think its possible that madara manged too save obito and then when he died obito would had taken his eyes, It would make sense because he could have used his eyes to power up his own and in a unique way lets just say when he helped itachi, he ended up having a brother still alive in the village, he takes his eyes and gets ems. His eyes are unique with the space/time jutsu and it would make perfect sense to how he can do it and kakashi because somehow kakashi knows that he is the only person to have sharingan and have those abilities, great post!
krurk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 08:23 PM   #3
MaFrog
Chuunin
 
MaFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Why...? Am I missing?
Posts: 415
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
MaFrog will become famous soon enoughMaFrog will become famous soon enoughMaFrog will become famous soon enough
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

wow Cheanster, you went to alooot of work.
I have always believed that its Obito's body. Everything you said there does fit in, I have to admit.
I skimmed the end because its too much for my poor lil eyes - but did you mention the part when Tobi gets up from talking to Pain, and his body is quivering and shaking?
Anyway, the only thing that I really don't get is -Why?
If Obito was alive back then, why didn't he come back to Konoha? Thats the only thing that doesn't make sense for me.
I was thinking Obito is dead (his soul/spirit) and another entity/ being is living in Obito.
There is nothing in the story (Kakashi Gaden) that causes Obito to turn into a madman liar, who claims to be Madara.

to add; I was thinking he picked up the FTG from watching Minato...
MaFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 08:37 PM   #4
Spiegel
Pirate King
 
Spiegel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grand Line (New World)
Age: 26
Posts: 5,093
Thanks: 1,108
Thanked 1,771 Times in 928 Posts
Spiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to all
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

As much thought you put into this it still doesn't convince me the person behind the mask is Obito. He died in Kakashi hands and I'm pretty sure that Konoha brought back the body of Obito so that ninjas from other hidden villages don't obtain the secret of the sharingan and secrets from Konoha. On top of that we haven't even seen Tobi/Madara's face to even say he remotely looks like Obito. The only lead we have is his face and the fact that the eye hole of his mask is on the right side but if we look in Kakashi Gaiden a rock fell on top of him crushing his entire right side of this body inlcuding his right side of his face. Things just don't add up to me. If your theory ends up being true then all the kudos go to you and everyone else that thinks the same.
__________________
“Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!”
― Donquixote Doflamingo
*Ex-Kakashi87*
Spiegel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 08:39 PM   #5
bluuuman
Chuunin
 
bluuuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Down the Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 400
Thanks: 2
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
bluuuman is on a distinguished roadbluuuman is on a distinguished road
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

Nice work cheanster! That made a lot of sense. It just might be as you said. I gotta give you your props for this one.
__________________
Do you hate Pein, love Jiraiya, or both? If you said yes to any of the three then click here!
bluuuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 08:53 PM   #6
Sonlox
Genin
 
Sonlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto,Ca
Age: 28
Posts: 150
Thanks: 8
Thanked 24 Times in 14 Posts
Sonlox is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

wow really good information, i am starting to think you have a point.
__________________
Sonlox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 10:09 PM   #7
Naruto2008
Special Jounin
 
Naruto2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Congers, NY
Age: 21
Posts: 2,172
Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Naruto2008 is just really niceNaruto2008 is just really niceNaruto2008 is just really niceNaruto2008 is just really niceNaruto2008 is just really niceNaruto2008 is just really niceNaruto2008 is just really nice
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

While I'm sure you spent ALOT of time on this thread and you do make a lot of good points, I still believe that Madara=Tobi and Obito is dead. There is just too much speculation in youre theory. I mean you do have a lot of evidence, but it just supports your speculation.
__________________
Rep me GREEN, leave your name, and I'll rep you back.

Bitch I'm tha bomb like tick, tick!
Naruto2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 11:04 PM   #8
oroplagiato
Academy Student
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
oroplagiato is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

hello, first you seem to have put a lot of work into this, but i don't really believe in it.

first, when you say:
Quote:
The Madara that history depicts is a warrior,
lived for the battle and did not get other's to do his dirty work.
This current Madara has not shown one single offensive jutsu,
in every single appearance he is playing the fool and constantly fleeing.
Now why would a century old powerhouse attempt to change his ways all of a sudden.
then i have to say that there are plenty of possibilities. first thing is, that the old "uh i'm so strong i'll just kill them all alone" thing didn't worked out well in the past for him, he might just try it a bit more tricky now.
also it is true that he hasn't shown any offensive jutsu yet, but why?
we've seen 2fights including him. 3 with the fight against the tailed-beast, but we have no clue how he fought there, or as we got it from what deidra was saying, he let him do all the work what in my eyes was just so deidra would think he is the foolish little tobi and have, for whatever reason, no clue who he was fighting along. (one of the reasons i like madara, will come to it later)

the second fight was against sasuke, where he just supported deidra, but this was a fight he did want sasuke to win, because for whatever reason he needs him. i'm not a fan of linking but here's a prove:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/17/

the third fight was with kakashi and the rest, there again could be a lot of reasons. first, there was just no reason to kill them. secons, there were a lot of shinobi, fighting them might have shown that he is an ushia (kakashi already saw the sharingan) or even worse, that he indeed is madara, and he might not have been able to kill them all if the jonins would have decided to fight him while the others spread word in konoha. them knowing who's still around would have made things harder for him. and last, it could have to do something with naruto...something about him not getting harmed yet, or whatever.
and the behavior of tobi, thats one thing why i really started to like madara, he isn't so super-villain-like like orochimaru and also dosn't try to play the ice-cold cool guy all the time like itachi. he can swallow away his pride and play the stupid incompetend fool to everyone even if he is really old, really strong and smart. he behaved like this because he is a good pretender.


you say:
Quote:
why would he, if he wanted to ensure konoha's downfall not attack after Oro's failed takeover attempt, Konoha was in a state of disrepair, without a Hokage and was ripe for the taking, The Madara who the Shodaime and the Yondaime battled would not have wasted the oppurtunity.
and i think the answers to that are all given through itachi. first, right after the attack itachi came there, and we know that he'd do close to everything for konoha, also fighting madara. i think madara is stronger but even he knew that itachi was a danger. not to forget having to fight a bunch of strong jonins plus itachi plus maybe a sanin. and not to forget that, as already said, going to attack alone didn't went out well for him before, and i think he is a man who learns from his failures. we don't know if "tobi" is lieing, but he also told about this: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/400/09/
also itachi said that madara is just a shell of his former self, maybe he is right now just to weak to do anything offensive (would make some sense
, as he uses sasuke and has some need for the tailed beasts)

about the age, i believe kishi himself said, that at first he wanted akatsuki members to look barly human, like monsters, and this fits, they had immortals before.

the whole manga linking was indeed interesting to some point, but not convincing, and i think i already wrote to much for someone to read so i'll stop here first.
oroplagiato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 11:19 PM   #9
xxMESTxx
EffYouSeeKay
 
xxMESTxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Mountains
Age: 22
Posts: 910
Thanks: 1,344
Thanked 606 Times in 300 Posts
xxMESTxx will become famous soon enoughxxMESTxx will become famous soon enoughxxMESTxx will become famous soon enough
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

has anybody noticed that when sasuke put amatersu on tobis shoulder, he didnt scream in pain, mabye its because thats the side that crushed obito and he has no nerve/feeling left in it...add that to your list..
xxMESTxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 12:18 AM   #10
Kenganan
Genin
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 60
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Kenganan is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

^^^

Tobi does make a scream when it hits him. He makes a "Guah" sound and almost falls to his knees in the process of it engulfing him.
Kenganan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 01:11 AM   #11
tien
Chuunin
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 453
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
tien is on a distinguished roadtien is on a distinguished road
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

I like the theories, you put alot of thought and facts to back up things. SO let me see.

Madara died before Obito was born, so lets assumes zetsu is on a much higher level then Juuko(dam, dude with sasuke who can shape shift). Well lets assume zetsu was drawn to such a high level battle, because he does not seem concerned with squabbles. He eats madara's dead body and preserves it.

Sharingan is a store/recall system, genetic memory so too speak. Obito is crush, strong emotional anquish attracts zetsu who saves him, nurtures him back to health with flesh culled from madara's dead body.

I say tobi/obito/madara is both of them, one body possessing madara's EMS, techniques, knowledge through genetic memory recall and basically tobi is obito with his and madara's power and knowledge. There was a thread about the statement when tobi was revealed to be madara. " My power, uchihas madara power", something like that. He was talking not to much in a first person sense, it was as if he meant his own power and madara's. And like someone else mentioned in another thread, space/time jutsus are better than having to travel on foot. He could have observed teh mizukage, left a clone in his place when he killed the real one, and acted as mizukage.
tien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 02:08 AM   #12
rokudaime_hokage
Chuunin
 
rokudaime_hokage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 478
Thanks: 579
Thanked 177 Times in 96 Posts
rokudaime_hokage will become famous soon enoughrokudaime_hokage will become famous soon enough
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

so they just left the body of their friend there?
i dont think so, unless kakashi got really exited becuase of his new sharingan eye and he just forgot.

Minato: where's obito?
kakashi: Uuups!

thats the only part that doesnt add up to me.
all the other speculations kinda make sense for the most part.
rokudaime_hokage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 04:32 AM   #13
trondah
ANBU
 
trondah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1,962
Thanks: 13
Thanked 77 Times in 49 Posts
trondah is a jewel in the roughtrondah is a jewel in the roughtrondah is a jewel in the roughtrondah is a jewel in the roughtrondah is a jewel in the roughtrondah is a jewel in the rough
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

I too have never stopped believing in Obito. There is just too many coincidences for him not being involved somehow. Except for the name, physical attributes and behaviour you have found a lot more to back it up with.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it 100% proven though. If Tobi is Obito, where is Madara? Itachi definately met up with him in the forest, as shown by his characteristic long hair. Or maybe he actually fooled Itachi, but that seems strange.
__________________

Hashirama Senju, the man hailed as the best shinobi of all time.
trondah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 07:27 AM   #14
ironking
Genin
 
ironking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 118
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ironking is on a distinguished road
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

good theory ....
__________________
http://forums.narutocentral.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=18736&datel  ine=1201895128
Your Current Signature Picture
http://s12.bitefight.ro/c.php?uid=16778
ironking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 07:41 AM   #15
Mystik
Im a Bitch
 
Mystik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Nowhere
Age: 39
Posts: 6,418
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Mystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant futureMystik has a brilliant future
Re: 100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved

No tobis isnt obito. I dont see how you guys even think Tobi is obito by that info. I didnt see anything that would even make me think that. I dont see zetsu seeing someone half dead and rescuing them and healing them and saving their lives. What would be the point and why obito. Also Obito wasnt in a ton of chapters and isnt a key character as for not turning off his sharingan we dont know if he did or didnt. So what if he didnt in the manga that doesnt mean he couldnt turn it off if he wanted too. Hell Itachi hardly turned his off either. So no i still dont believe this theory sorry. I say lay the theories to rest already and let kishi say what happened to obito if he even brings him back up. Till that happens to me Obito is dead. Oh and this is a theory so you can't say its 100% proved. Till kishi says tobi is obito then it will be 100% proved.

Last edited by Mystik; 09-29-2008 at 07:44 AM.
Mystik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.