RNB

No, I don't think God wrote the Bible period. The Bible even says that it wasn't written by him. I interpret it to allow it to mean what it meant at the time it was written. I put myself in the culture of the Jews during the time of Jesus to understand the metaphors, what some of the things he did meant, etc. You must understand the political, economic, and religious realms of the time. Jesus is possibly the most revolutionary person in the history of the world, if he is real.

Yes, and those verses contradict the God of the OT. I mean, the Israelites say that God told them to go into Jericho and kill everyone in there. Later on in the OT God tells David that if he lives by the sword, he will die by the sword.

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"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Miburo

If it's not the word of God, and instead just the work of regular human authors, then it's just as credible as any other man-made mythological bullshit. Which isn't that credible.

RNB

When did I ever say it had an objective credit? You can't prove there is a God so that is enough to discredit it.

The book that has the most credit is the Gospels because they are the only books that give us a clear vision of God and his kingdom. Every other book has truth, but you must use Jesus to find it.

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

ShinobiKnight

You're wrong there. The Bible says the source of sin is our human heart. Satan tempts us, but he can never make us sin. We make the choice.
Because he said he would punish sin, and he did. But Jesus died the horrible death we were supposed to, according to the Bible. If he had never sent Jesus, no one, past, present, or future, would be saved.

Of course he can send people to hell. He gave us free choice for a reason. And he's more than willing to save anyone who accepts him. But those who don't, he won't save, because it's their choice and not his. It's not so much God condemning people to hell as people refusing to save themselves from it.

This Scripture says otherwise. Choose which to believe.

Also, lol @ Miburo.

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Miburo

@RNB-There's no credible reason to believe Jesus is the son of God either. Therefore claiming his message is the truest one in relation to how God really is would be erroneous. If you do not operate under the assumption that the Bible was written by men influenced by God, then almost everything in it is prone to error.

@SK- =p

ThyMaiden

ok so you are saying, forget the old testament the only thing that works in the new testament.
now tell me, which book did jesus normally quotes, the old testament of course.
he came to change the law, like the law of talion "lex talionis", ect.
he never said, forget the old testament what I say is what matters.
if not, then why the old testament is in the bible, why god allow it to still be in the bible if it is useless. and if is not, then why some parts are and some parts are just interpretation?

RNB

Don't even use the word Satan. It means "adversary" is mistranslated throughout the Bible. The human heart = human nature. We make the choice to do evil, temptation is a product of the evil in the world. Therefore we tempt ourselves. There is no spiritual warfare or anything. Just God and us. God had a full relationship with us in the beginning, we broke it. Now God is restoring the relationship. The devil doesn't even fit in the picture.

Why do some people get a way out because they choose to be irrational? How come a person can't choose to follow God when he is talking to God and God is, "judging him?"


No, it isn't free choice right now. You are saying that I should believe that I should abandon my rational view of the earth, which I was created to have because God gave it to me, and believe in something that isn't tangible in order to save myself from something that isn't tangible. Why would God make us accountable for the sins of Adam and Eve? If Jesus tells us to forgive a man seventy-seven times, why can't God do that for us? According to you, I must break away from the sin, which God forced me to be born in, and say A =/= A. Sorry, that isn't a choice. Be a slave to God on earth or burn in hell. What kind of choice is that?

God-breathed means inspired. It does not mean God took the pen and wrote his message down word for word.

Technically, Jesus said that he was. So among those who have faith, it is credible. I said the Bible was written by man and influenced by God. What I am really saying, though, is that man distorted the message a bit. There is still truth in the scriptures, but Jesus is the way to find it. No one can get to the father except through him.

You see, I am a Christian first, meaning I follow Christ before I follow the murderous God of the Old Testament. I have Jesus is the truest revelation of Christ that we have so I use his image, his values, and his goals to look at other scripture and see if it matches up. If it doesn't, it means it was distorted by man.

The Old Testament matters A LOT. You need its history to understand the gospels. You need the gospels to understand its religious truth. There is value in the Old Testament. The Old Testament cannot be forgotten.

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

ShinobiKnight

'Kay, then, the devil. Same thing. Temptation is a product of the devil putting an option to sin in front of us. Maybe he does it through people, maybe our sin gives him the chance, but he's the tempter.
Because it's too late then. It takes no faith to take what you see in front of you, and Christianity is based on faith.
God can't put ideas in your head; he can present them to you for you to judge, but he can't make you think something. We're accountable for our own sins, and no one else's. God is willing to absolutely forgive if you're willing to ask for that forgiveness in earnest. You can't absolutely stop sinning, but you can try to avoid it in favor of biblical instructions. And if you do so, and are forgiven through baptism, you're saved.
Well that's too motherfucking bad, isn't it? God expects you to give your life to him. If you don't want to, no one can make you, but don't ever whine about the consequences.
How do you figure that? If you breathe words, that means you say it, am I right?

You just don't understand, do you? They're the same God. Jesus. New Testament God. Old Testament God. All one and the same. If you believe otherwise, you're ignoring the Scriptures I pulled up earlier.

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Miburo

Jesus says this...in the bible, I assume? So you'll take what man says about what Jesus says seriously, but not what man says about what God says...despite the fact that they both come from equally credible sources.

So, in other words, you pick and choose what suits your beliefs. Gotcha.

ShinobiKnight

Fuck yeah, Miburo.

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RNB

No. The tempter is our ability to have choice. There is no disadvantage to us. We have the choice between good and evil, but we chose evil and we continue to make good and bad decisions.

So God doesn't really love everyone? God would send someone to hell because he didn't believe something he can't believe is real?

Baptism? Baptism is what saves me? Seriously, that is total bullshit. When did Jesus ever say Baptism is what saves me? When did Jesus ever say that a prayer of forgiveness saves me?

Ok so your image of God is a fascist. I guess God really only wants me for a slave then and he doesn't really want a relationship with me...

No. God breathed concepts into the writers head. The writer then writes down those concepts, but along with those words we get the bias of the time.

I have said Jesus and God are the same God. What I am saying is that the OT records the God in a wrong way. God was blamed for things he didn't do, and things he didn't say. God is Jesus and Jesus is God. God described in the Old Testament =/= True character of God.

Technically, the people that wrote the gospels based them off of a few accounts. This is why there are similarities and differences in the gospels. The thing is, the character of Jesus is the same throughout every one of the gospels. The gospels were written long after Jesus so they couldn't have been written after Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The reason I trust the gospels is because there is less bias when you experience God in the form of a human, then when you may "feel" what he has to say. If I feel God telling me to sit with the rejects, I may not do it. If I see a man who claims to be God tell me to sit with the rejects using scripture of the Old Testament in a way I have never experienced it before, I just might do what he says. Now I may also think he is a lunatic, but couldn't I also think I was mentally unstable in the other scenario? I do not pick and choose what suits my beliefs because my beliefs are based off of Jesus. Jesus is God therefore everything he did was of God. If something contradicts his actions, it can't be of God. If I see in the OT that I should not love my neighbor (which is does), whom should I trust? Jesus or the Old Testament? Since I am a Christian (follower of Christ) I trust Christ first.

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Miburo

So you take what is said in some parts of the bible (Shit with Jesus in it) as more credible than other parts of the bible (Old testament) because of your beliefs (Christ follower). You know...exactly what I said.

RNB

Yes, I absolutely do that. I don't see how believing in murderous, but loving God is any more credible.

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

ThyMaiden

Christ is god,
every time god said "kill" in the old testament
christ did
you cant treat christ as a different person
he is just god in a function

RNB

Christ is God. The thing is when God says, "Kill this person" in the OT, it wasn't God. It was the Israelites using religion to manipulate the masses in order to kill that person. They had the wrong idea of who God was. That is why God sent his son, to clear everything up.

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus