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Old 02-22-2009, 10:54 AM   #916
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Re: Kakashi's death?

XD I like viewing some opinions as facts because it is a fact you feel that way
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:55 AM   #917
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Re: Kakashi's death?

I agree bro.........!
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Old 02-22-2009, 11:19 AM   #918
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Re: Kakashi's death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by popion View Post
yeah he can use them but with some greter costs (probaly more chakra in his case)
like when sasuke copyed lees taijutsu
he could useit (matching lee's speed) but that had great impact on his body..

man read the posts that folowed that one u quoted and ya will see my arguments and what i brought as a backup for them
I don't think so, it's not to do with the amount of chakra you inject in when you copy and elemental ninjutsu, it's to do with being able to mould the chakra correctly.
We don't know exactly how water natured chakra is moulded, but if it's like forming blades with wind it wouldn't matter how much chakra was used - it wouldn't be the same. Kakashi can copy water techniques because yes, he can learn techniques on the spot definitely, but he needs to have the correct training and affinity in order to form the attacks correctly. The reason Kakashi for instance hasn't copied fire attacks against Itachi is because he isn't able to mould fire natured chakra in the right way.

Anyway this won't change anyone's opinion on either side of the discussion really. Personally if the anime states directly that he can control four elements, and we remove Fire then it just leaves Lightning, Earth and Water.
One thing I would like to never be included however is him using ice jutsu in the first movie, it goes against the manga for crying out loud lol and screws up Haku's kekkei genkai.

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XD I like viewing some opinions as facts because it is a fact you feel that way
You can do that to an extent but if something canon in the story states the opposite you can't ignore it.
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Old 02-22-2009, 11:29 AM   #919
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Re: Kakashi's death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu men View Post
I don't think so, it's not to do with the amount of chakra you inject in when you copy and elemental ninjutsu, it's to do with being able to mould the chakra correctly.
We don't know exactly how water natured chakra is moulded, but if it's like forming blades with wind it wouldn't matter how much chakra was used - it wouldn't be the same. Kakashi can copy water techniques because yes, he can learn techniques on the spot definitely, but he needs to have the correct training and affinity in order to form the attacks correctly. The reason Kakashi for instance hasn't copied fire attacks against Itachi is because he isn't able to mould fire natured chakra in the right way.

Anyway this won't change anyone's opinion on either side of the discussion really. Personally if the anime states directly that he can control four elements, and we remove Fire then it just leaves Lightning, Earth and Water.
One thing I would like to never be included however is him using ice jutsu in the first movie, it goes against the manga for crying out loud lol and screws up Haku's kekkei genkai.



You can do that to an extent but if something canon in the story states the opposite you can't ignore it.
the sharingan can ccopy jutsus because it can see the hand movements and more importantly because it can see chakra. an excelled sharingan user can see the molding required and the hand signs from just viewing the jutsu once(ex. kakashi) whichi is why they can immediately use that jutsu.

oh, and this is not IMO as it is not my opinion
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Old 02-22-2009, 11:32 AM   #920
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Re: Kakashi's death?

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Originally Posted by stubborn_narut0 View Post
the sharingan can ccopy jutsus because it can see the hand movements and more importantly because it can see chakra. an excelled sharingan user can see the molding required and the hand signs from just viewing the jutsu once(ex. kakashi) whichi is why they can immediately use that jutsu.

oh, and this is not IMO as it is not my opinion
True but it doesn't necessary mean that it will be a perfect copy, and considering how long it took Naruto with all of those clones to learn to mould wind chakra properly I don't think Kakashi can copy nature affinities he doesn't have.

Also the sharingan is unable to see more precise details of chakra, it wasn't able to see the chakra pores or the number of blades of wind chakra in Naruto's imperfect Fuuton Rasenshruiken.

Last edited by Tzu Men; 02-22-2009 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 11:48 AM   #921
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Re: Kakashi's death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu men View Post
I don't think so, it's not to do with the amount of chakra you inject in when you copy and elemental ninjutsu, it's to do with being able to mould the chakra correctly.
We don't know exactly how water natured chakra is moulded, but if it's like forming blades with wind it wouldn't matter how much chakra was used - it wouldn't be the same. Kakashi can copy water techniques because yes, he can learn techniques on the spot definitely, but he needs to have the correct training and affinity in order to form the attacks correctly. The reason Kakashi for instance hasn't copied fire attacks against Itachi is because he isn't able to mould fire natured chakra in the right way.

Anyway this won't change anyone's opinion on either side of the discussion really. Personally if the anime states directly that he can control four elements, and we remove Fire then it just leaves Lightning, Earth and Water.
One thing I would like to never be included however is him using ice jutsu in the first movie, it goes against the manga for crying out loud lol and screws up Haku's kekkei genkai.
You can do that to an extent but if something canon in the story states the opposite you can't ignore it.
sounds right
its to bad we dont have an exemple where someone stated clerly info about copying ninjutsu
we only have taijutsu ...
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:00 PM   #922
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Re: Kakashi's death?

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Originally Posted by Tzu men View Post
True but it doesn't necessary mean that it will be a perfect copy, and considering how long it took Naruto with all of those clones to learn to mould wind chakra properly I don't think Kakashi can copy nature affinities he doesn't have.

Also the sharingan is unable to see more precise details of chakra, it wasn't able to see the chakra pores or the number of blades of wind chakra in Naruto's imperfect Fuuton Rasenshruiken.
this is irrelevant and shows flaming intent.


affinity isnt the same as ability. If kakashi took one of those chakra sensitive papers and injected his chakra the paper would only react in one way, every time. that is what he has AFFINITY for. However do to his genius and the sharingan he has the ABILITY to use different natural elements. Some more effectively and some less of course. And whats his name that was dissing opinions said something about semantics and that affinity is synonymous to relation. however, IN THE MANGA (not my opinion) AFFINITY is used to describe a natural element that a user is most naturally talented for. it is not used to describe a relationship with every natural element that a user can use.

(not at u tzu men)stick to the manga for facts, and dont attack people for stating their opinions when you try to pass ur opinions as facts

ps. everything is relative.



edit: proof of my statement that kakashi's is lighting
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/15/
manga proof so dont worry not my opinion

Last edited by stubborn_d0nkey; 02-22-2009 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:37 PM   #923
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Re: Kakashi's death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by popion View Post
sounds right
its to bad we dont have an exemple where someone stated clerly info about copying ninjutsu
we only have taijutsu ...
Yeah, hopefully with another Uchiha member alive now we might get a chance for further insight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubborn_narut0 View Post
this is irrelevant and shows flaming intent.


affinity isnt the same as ability. If kakashi took one of those chakra sensitive papers and injected his chakra the paper would only react in one way, every time. that is what he has AFFINITY for. However do to his genius and the sharingan he has the ABILITY to use different natural elements. Some more effectively and some less of course. And whats his name that was dissing opinions said something about semantics and that affinity is synonymous to relation. however, IN THE MANGA (not my opinion) AFFINITY is used to describe a natural element that a user is most naturally talented for. it is not used to describe a relationship with every natural element that a user can use.
Um I guess by "flaming intent", you mean I was trying to flame you? Whatever but I genuinely wasn't lol. If you are insulted please be obliged to report me for those sentences. My point was that the Sharingan can allow Kakashi to see how people are using their chakra when he attempts to copy them, but he can't necessarily see them on a level low enough to understand how to manipulate the element that they are using in their techniques.

Yeah I did slip about calling them all affinities I consent, but the point still stands from my previous post that we're discussing whether or not he can use techniques that require him to have the ability to control particular elements. Also the manga was very brief discussing it, we don't really know if whether when someone gets the ability to control an element they are just honing their weaker but already present affinity for it. The element which displays itself on chakra paper may be a person's natural, dominant affinity but the other elements that they learn to use through training might be more submissive. It could provide a decent explanation as to why complete geniuses can't master all of the elements and why only the Rinnegan kekkei genkai can.
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Old 02-22-2009, 03:01 PM   #924
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Re: Kakashi's death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubborn_narut0 View Post
owever, IN THE MANGA (not my opinion) AFFINITY is used to describe a natural element that a user is most naturally talented for. it is not used to describe a relationship with every natural element that a user can use.

(not at u tzu men)stick to the manga for facts, and dont attack people for stating their opinions when you try to pass ur opinions as facts

ps. everything is relative.



edit: proof of my statement that kakashi's is lighting
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/15/
manga proof so dont worry not my opinion
Yeah, well. If you go back just a page....http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/14/you will see that Naruto mentions that Sasuke has both Fire and Lightning, no one corrects him. Obviously, you can have more than one Affinity, and again it's just semantics....this is a translated Manga so don't get so caught up in the wording of shit. Affinity can be used to describe any elemental ability, i.e. you must have some sort of affinity (relationship) with an element to use it. That just goes without saying.

Last edited by Matthekage; 02-22-2009 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 03:03 PM   #925
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Re: Kakashi's death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthekage View Post
Yeah, well. If you go back just a page....http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/14/you will see that Naruto mentions that Sasuke has both Fire and Lightning, no one corrects him. Obviously, you can have more than one Affinity, and again it's just semantics....this is a translated Manga so don't get so caught up in the wording of shit. Affinity can be used to describe any elemental ability, i.e. you must have some sort of affinity (relationship) with an element to use it. That just goes without saying.
Really? So Im guessing Naruto needs a Affinity to fire to use a lighter or make a camp fire?
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Old 02-22-2009, 03:06 PM   #926
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Re: Kakashi's death?

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Really? So Im guessing Naruto needs a Affinity to fire to use a lighter or make a camp fire?
Yeah, that's really intelligent comment. You know what I'm saying. You people are so defencive...... it's a bit scary really. I thought this place may have changed but, there are as many imbeciles as ever.

If you can't handle discussion, I'm out.....Good luck with it.

Last edited by Matthekage; 02-22-2009 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 03:36 PM   #927
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Re: Kakashi's death?

Its not that I cant handle discussion. Its that "you" people are not seeing all possiblities and all outcomes. Your assuming because a cant add to b, that makes a and b non-like terms. thats incorrect.

You get what im saying? You guys are basing it off of your current knowledge, without thinking., Just manag and thats it. No brain usage from all the information we have on Naruto manag
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:01 PM   #928
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Re: Kakashi's death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthekage View Post
Yeah, well. If you go back just a page....http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/14/you will see that Naruto mentions that Sasuke has both Fire and Lightning, no one corrects him. Obviously, you can have more than one Affinity, and again it's just semantics....this is a translated Manga so don't get so caught up in the wording of shit. Affinity can be used to describe any elemental ability, i.e. you must have some sort of affinity (relationship) with an element to use it. That just goes without saying.
do you realy belive sleepyfans do good translations?
cmon
you can have only 1 afinity
logic time:
if sasuke has 2 what will happen when he uses the special paper kakashi has?
it will rincle then catch fire? cmon you seem smarter than that
all have 1 afinity. but that doesnt stop ya from learning/copying jutsu that use other elements (kakashi .... )

even if anbukakashi's comment was a little wierd it is corect
if naruto learns great fireball, he doesnt need fire afinity to use that jutsu

sidenote: what do ya get when you combine fire with wind O_o?
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:32 PM   #929
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Re: Kakashi's death?

The fire grows.... it talked about that. I am pretty sure naruto made a comment about his wind keeping sasuke's flame alive
I think how the paper works is... everybody has one natural affinity towards an element. Then, over time, other affinities emerge but are not as strong as the original one.
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Old 02-22-2009, 05:06 PM   #930
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Re: Kakashi's death?

no, actually, all ninjas have two afinitys, one main, and one other one. Kakashi's is lighting first, and then water. We know that naruto's first one is wind, but we don't know what else. Sasuke's is fire and lightning, and so on.
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