Scarecrow

this is my theory:
when itachi poked sasuke in his forehead (b4 he died) he transferred his knowledge and memories onto sasuke
that way sasuke in one second realized the truth about itachi and who actually killed his clan
it was tobi, tadam! (imagine dramatic music here)
sasuke then fainted from exhaustion and tobi picked him
when sasuke woke up he saw tobi and couldnt suppress his anger- sasuke attacked tobi with amateratsu
tobi misinterpreted this act as a reflex from sasuke
since sasuke has all the memories from itachi he knows he cant attack tobi coz tobi is like stronger 10 times than him so sasuke plays dumb
then tobi tells sasuke his story and sasuke "believes him" but actually sasuke knows the truth and is waiting for his chance to attack tobi

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krurk

It sounds like a good idea but we know for a fact that itachi was asked to wipe out his clan not only from tobi's story but also from story of people in the leaf, so itachi knew he had to do it, he wasnt forced too, he wanted too bc he loved the leaf, if he wasnt asked by the hokage id believe it, although i do believe sasuke plans on killing tobi at some point, id imagine when he arrives to the leaf part of him is going to see how powerful naruto is and personally i expect sasuke to lure naruto too tobi and then sasuke will team up with naruto, i really dont see naruto and sasuke not becoming allies again, although in the end i also think sasuke must die

Naruto2008

Eh, idk if Itachi even could transfer all of his memories.

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Scarecrow

the only source of info on the fact that itachi killed his clan was from sasuke who was under mangekyou sharingan illusion and from tobi - not very reliable
tobis story is not true for several reasons and sasuke believing it so easily means sasuke is scared of tobi
when tobi says the whole uchiha clan was blamed for the attack of the demon fox- -that doesent make sense coz the only known person to be able to control the demon fox was madara so why would u put the blame on ppl that are not able to perform the act u accuse them for
if it was actually suspected that a ninja (or a group of ninjas) was behind the fox attack the logical thing would be to send an agent to investigate the matter so he can try to find someone like madara, someone powerful enough to do such a thing
the agent they sent was itachi and he found tobi
tobi was stronger than itachi and defeated him but decided to spare his life for some reason (motivation of tobi is unknown)
i have a theory that tobi needs an uchiha coz he kept itachi and now keeps sasuke by his side

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Konnaha_yellow_flash

I doubt Itachi would've called madara a shell of his former self if itachi got his ass kicked! I think you have it backwards.

Scarecrow

he did call him a shell of his former self

for my theory to work tobi has to be unbelievably strong, stronger than itachi and sasuke put together

when itachi called him that way he might have meant that "madara" is different than what he was like in the stories

and itachi then said to sasuke that he needs his eyes to surpass madara, meaning that itachi was the weaker one
but itachi actually gave his techniques to sasuke so sasuke can surpass madara/tobi

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krurk

Maybe if madara did use the kyuubi too attack the leaf, maybe when minato defeated it, it also took a toll on madaras body, summoning or controlling the beast would be a task for anyone so i doubt it was any different for madara, plus when the kyuubi talked to sasuke it seemed to know a little about the sharingan and it wouldnt surprise me if he knew more about madara, my money is definetly on the fact that after he summoned the kyuubi too attack the leaf he went into a weaker state, he was already over 100 years old so he was probably weaker in taijutsu and ninjutsu so when the minato stopped the kyuubi, he probably took some toll on his body and now he relies only on genjutsu

Scarecrow

madara/tobi getting weaker after the use of kyuubi would explain why he didnt attack konoha after that
but i dont think that tobi is madara
i think that tobi is obito
and the reason he didnt attack konoha was because that is not his only goal or that is not his goal at all

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krurk

There is no way tobi is obito, at best madara somehow was able to obtain obitos body from the rock village during the wars and he was able to have a medical ninja remove sharingan from his other eye and madara took obitos ability of a space time jutsu, but other than that i dont think obito is involved in this, but if you have facts throw them out there

Scarecrow

i dont have any new facts but i like what you said about madaras spirit inhabiting obitos body, that would explain tobis evil ways and the fact he wasnt exited when he met kakashi and other ninjas in the forest
on the other hand tobi has been around konoha for some time and the only one who noticed him was itachi
tobi can teleport
he might have watched kakashi for years so he wouldnt have to be exited to see him at all
tobis exterior is very unusual
there is one more thing - tobi is stronger than madara
if madara could have teleported himself like that he would have won against the first hokage

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krurk

The first was able to use the tailed beasts, he was able to control them as pets, even if madara could teleport he would had lost, and if you listened too itachi he said madara is a shell of his former self so he isnt stronger, he became weaker as he aged, most people do

liondemon

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/11/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/344/009/ I think that this is what Itachi meant by Madara. He is no longer in his own, true body, and therefore a "shell" of his former self. Madara still has all his powers and abilities that he were considered great for, just like Orochumaru, The only difference is that it's not his original body, just like Orochumaru. Madara is stronger than Itachi and Itachi made that clear as someone pointed out. Itachi said he needed PMS to defeat Madara. Madara would have become weaker as he aged if he stayed in that same aging body.

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krurk

Good point, so we can figure that madara has taken a new body, but whose could he have taken, obito is an option but there is many parts that dont add up too the theory, the only part that does is the space time jutsu, so other than him is there anyone else who could have been madaras victim, what other body could he have?

walpurgiss

Pretty sure that if he wanted to, Itachi could.

All he would have to do is use kaleidoscope genjutsu like he did Kakashi in Konoha, where 1s = 3 days or whatever, and show all his memories to them in there.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/19/

I don't know if he could have done it near death though. Maybe the important ones but probably not absolutely everything. See it as an ultimate teaching technique. You can undergo 20 years or more of training in days.

Kina

If Sasuke had know, there would've been some indiction when it happened. This seems too far-fetched, even for Kishi.

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