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Old 12-17-2008, 06:54 PM   #16
Kilik 64
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

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Space/time jutsu is a common term within Naruto & MS has never been a requirement in order to use it. Summoning & Thunder God are both space/time jutsu. Sasuke himself preformed a space/time to get away from Diedara. If Madara needs MS in order to perform something as mundane as space/time then he's pathetic. Whenever something important such as MS activation happens for the first time Kishi normally shows it. This is simply put one of many jutsu Madara has acquired over the years.
There's a big difference between the summoning jutsu and what Tobi uses. Summoning has the user perform hand seals and use a bit of their own blood to bring a creature to them. Thunder God allows Minato to instantly warp to a location by throwing a specially marked kunai to that location. Tobi is able to make himself essentially cease to exist, then return to existence again. He uses no hand seals, no blood, no anything. He just does it.
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Not when an arm is trapped under bolders while dieing (Obito couldn't preform a jutsu to escape).Show me one instance that's not genjutsu of someone getting out of a situation as dire as Obito's. Obito never preformed any doton jutsu in his short time in the manga. This would of been the only method that would allow him to escape.
Someone else could have gotten him out of there. Naruto was about to have his head chopped off, with no possible way of survival, when Rock Lee showed up to save him. Lots of people show up just at the igt time to help save the day.
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You must be another Ron who can't tell the difference between wrinkles & a scar. Your pathetic attempt to discredit me without actual proof is amusing. Obito was clearly completely crushed by rocks before fading to black. FYI when someone fades to black it normally means they're dead.
There's a big difference between a blade scar and a large blunt object scar. A blade would leave a clean, lined scar like what Kakashi has. A blunt object could mangle your face in any number of ways, such as giving the appearance of wrinkles. Or perhaps it's just excess skin from fixing his face up. As for fading black
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:35 PM   #17
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

Alright i used to be a firm tobi=obito believer until this point came up which makes a ton of sense, everyone here seems to be convinced that madara used the kyuubi to attack the leaf, and if anyone isnt then just say it but im pretty sure we all are, so when the 4th arrived im guessing that most of the surrounding ninja headed back to the leaf to evacuate incase the 4th lost that battle, that leaves the 4th alone so no one really knows what happens and thats probably why we havent heard or have seen the entire battle or anything, so if madara used the kyuubi then he was there when the 4th was and he also could had fought madara, i wouldnt gurantee it tho, but through the battle with the kyuubi the 4th had to use the FTG just once, and if he did madara could had copied it with his sharingan and then went on to perfect it, the only move sharingan cant copy is a kekke genkai, and i dont think the FTG is one or someone would had tried teaching naruto it or at least mentioned it too him, and if madara copied the FTG and over the past 15 years was able to perfect the technique.
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:30 PM   #18
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

I mean, I'm pretty sure that Tobi will not end up being Madara, but I like Kishi's ambiguous method of revealing some stuff because he doesn't make the idea set in stone, which leaves him the opportunity to change his mindabout how the story will go later. It's funny because there are still traces of the possibility of him being Obito, even though he have all of this backstory and stuff going on with Madara.
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:52 PM   #19
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

MS dojutsu expend allot of chakra & momentarily weaken the user. Madara showed no signs of weakness after using something as simple as space/time. For a space/time jutsu to be considered a MS dojutsu is lame because it puts a limit on how often he can use it & also removes potential for a different more deadly dojutsu to arise from his MS. Madara has lived for close to 100 years & would know some jutsu that seem impossible by this generations shinobi. Another thing I'd like to point out is Madara didn't use it right away. Only after getting caught by Shino did Madara teleport.

Your example in comparison with Obito to Naruto getting saved by Lee fails. If what you're saying is true then I can also say Zabuza, Haku, Sarutobi, Azuma, & Jiraiya can all potentially still be alive by your logic. Just like all the ninja I just listed Obito is obviously dead. His role in the manga played out as a simple explanation on how Kakashi obtained Sharingan. His importance in the manga complete with his death & impowerment of Kakashi. To turn him into anything more would be simply retarded as Obito was weak, about 95% of the bone's in his body broken, & his brain turned into puddy. It would of been much simpler to Capture a random Uchiha & take over his body then it would be to repair such pathetic excuse for a vessel.

Ignore signs of aging all you want I've shown a comparison with old people while you fail at producing any short of actual evidence that would indicate that the wrinkles are actually scars.
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Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

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Old 12-17-2008, 08:52 PM   #20
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

I am not a tobi=obito supporter, but this is the only way I could see obito becoming evil.

After obito was crushed under the rocks. Some root ninja find the body and revive obito, but the boulders caused obito brain damage and he cant remember who he was before. Now danzou trains obito and sends him off to live in the mist village where no one can recognise him. Later becoming the mizukage. After all the preperations are complete. Danzou is ready to pass on the title of madara to the next generation and obito gets the honor.

It apperars madara did survive the fight against the first, but was never the same. Danzou still young helped nurse him and take care of him. Even helped him form an orginazation "akatsuki". Before madara died, he passed on his eyes as his legacy to danzou to continue akatsuki. 16 years ago danzou possing as madara summond the kyuubi to attack the village, as well as ralley the uchiha to revolt against the senju. Now that danzou has the uchiha where he wants them. He convinces his fellow advisors that the uchiha are too big of a threat and must be taken care of. Danzou then uses itachis weakness to convince him to kill the uchiha for him, but even danzou knows thats not enough. So, he dawns on his madara get up and stumbles on to itachi and makes a deal. The uchiha are dealt with.

Now danzou has someone lined up to take over as madara when obitos times up, but itachi refuses. Now obito has taken over the role of madara and has his sights on sasuke.

Thats all I can come up with at the momnet.
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:09 PM   #21
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

Does anyone realize this theory would have never even started if someone did not piece together that the fact obito looks like tobi, i gurantee, no one would have said anything if his name was shishu or something, thank god they did not put the kakashi gaiden into anime, i mean all my friends watch the english anime so they are really far behind and if they saw that gaiden and then saw tobi they would probably think the same thing because of his STUPID NAME
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:31 AM   #22
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

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dude.....nobody,NOBODY in narutos world does space/time jutsu as easy as tobi. He doesn't do any preparations to do it, as in seals, summoning, or throwing a kunai to mark a spot...
so why is it far stretched to assume its his eye technique (since he doesnt do seals for it)...
and space/time jutsu is a high lvl jutsu in ninja world. not just anyone can do it. the fourth was famous for it and tobis is much better.
That exactly why someone like Obito could not do it! The fourth was the best ninja out of the leaf ever. He couldnt do something his puple can? Yeah sure. Plus to do spacetime you need mangekyo genius!!! Also Tobi says "Ill play with children later." When kashi uses his sharingan. Now If he was Obito Kashi would notice and Obito would say something! By saying ill play with children later he means someone with that level of sharingan and someone who is oh idont know about 27 when he is 100!!!!!!!! Children to him could be my grandpa!!!!!!
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:57 AM   #23
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

dont underestimate obito, his talent was greater than that of sasuke and that says something.
also, tobi>madara
madara couldnt do space/time like tobi can
if he could have, than that would be named as one of his main abilities like summoning 9 tails
to be able to teleport at will is a major skill and a big advantage (its a stronger move than anything) but the only ninja we know of that could do almost that is the 4th hokage and he is praised as the strongest hokage
now, if madara cant teleport but tobi can, its an another evidence that its not the same person
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:03 AM   #24
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

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Does anyone realize this theory would have never even started if someone did not piece together that the fact obito looks like tobi, i gurantee, no one would have said anything if his name was shishu or something, thank god they did not put the kakashi gaiden into anime, i mean all my friends watch the english anime so they are really far behind and if they saw that gaiden and then saw tobi they would probably think the same thing because of his STUPID NAME
yeah, its just his name, and the fact he has one eye, wears a mask and doesent reveal his face, looks to be about the age kakashi is, has sharingan in that one eye, has the same hair as obito, wears a special suit and doesent reveal any parts of his body, has some sort of screws on the side of his body that would have been crushed by a boulder
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:11 AM   #25
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

Yeah i know there is a lot of things but im saying his name catches everyones attention that he could be obito, like obviously your a obito tobi believe, like there is no reasonable idea to why obito would become evil, kisame calls him madara, and yes he could be using obitos body or something but as of right now there is no facts that say obito is alive, we have to go off the facts, all i was saying was that obito would not have come up as fast in the discussion if tobi's name was different, a lot of people say that their names are really similiar, and i really believe if their names werent similiar, eventually obito would had been brought up, but he would had been more easily forgotten, but if it ends up being obito ill be happy, either way the story is interesting, but right now its madara until were shown otherwise
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:19 AM   #26
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

ur right, i also didnt think much about it but then someone thought of it, the name is one of the first things u notice

tobitobitobitobitobitobi

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Old 12-20-2008, 01:28 AM   #27
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

Maybe Madara did not develop his time/space jutsu until after he went underground after losing to the 1st. Just a possibility.
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Old 12-20-2008, 11:10 AM   #28
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

or he copied the 4th's jutsu, in which case kakashi should know the FTG as well, and thats why i believe kakashi was like "a space time jutsu"? when he was fighting tobi, it reminded him of the 4ths jutsu
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Old 12-20-2008, 08:43 PM   #29
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

I doubt that it is a copy of the 4th's Jutsu. That jutsu required the special Kunai that Kakashi had to be used, and could not cause parts of the users body to become empty space or super-hard, as Tobi has done.

Maybe Madara is just an agent busted out from the Matrix, and is using hax, so fast that even Shino's bugs can't tell what happened. But I don't think it is a copy of Minato's ability. Maybe inspired by it though, and perfected over the past 20-30 years to the point where it is not hobbled to a kunai.
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:17 AM   #30
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Re: Thought about Tobi and Obito

Well i believe the 4th used the kunai so he knew where to stop when he used the jutsu bc it moved so fast and the kunai helped him know where to stop somehow, and with chidori, kakashi could not use it until he had sharingan because it was impossible to direct, so if madara copied the technique bc of how sharingan works he would not need a kunai to track his position bc he would be able to see where hes going, but thats all speculation
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