Just a Thought THREAD - Page 107 - Fandom Forums
Fandom Forums



Go Back   Fandom Forums > Anime & Manga > Naruto Series > Naruto Manga

Naruto Manga Talk about the manga series Naruto here! Remember, this is manga only. No anime!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-17-2012, 03:44 AM   #1591
Senkradlol
Chuunin
 
Senkradlol's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PA
Age: 21
Posts: 410
Thanks: 468
Thanked 161 Times in 94 Posts
Senkradlol is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Weren't the swordsmen all brought up by edos? It's a stupid idea to think that if an edo summons an edo it won't go away, imho.
Senkradlol is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Senkradlol For This Useful Post:
Numinous (06-17-2012), UzumakiUchiha (06-17-2012)


Old 06-17-2012, 09:28 AM   #1592
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Kael, UzumakiUchiha and Senkradlol are correct, there were many Edo Tensei summoned by others but all Edo Tensei are under direct control of Kabuto.

Remember, the Edo Tensei summoned in battle by others were all summoned by Kuchiyose no Jutsu, NOT Edo Tensei, so that means that they were simply moved from Kabuto's hideout to the battlefield, they weren't brought back to life as they reached said battlefield. That means Kabuto already had used all of his Edo Tensei before the war began, he simply left a few dormant until summoning.

So, logically, Madara will suffer the same fate as all the other Edo Tensei, whatever it may be.
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3







Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Numinous For This Useful Post:
kael03 (06-17-2012), Senkradlol (06-17-2012), UzumakiUchiha (06-17-2012)
Old 06-17-2012, 09:55 AM   #1593
Vishnu
Hunter-Nin
 
Vishnu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Romania
Posts: 1,328
Thanks: 1,857
Thanked 2,172 Times in 789 Posts
Vishnu will become famous soon enoughVishnu will become famous soon enoughVishnu will become famous soon enough
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Kael, UzumakiUchiha and Senkradlol are correct, there were many Edo Tensei summoned by others but all Edo Tensei are under direct control of Kabuto.

Remember, the Edo Tensei summoned in battle by others were all summoned by Kuchiyose no Jutsu, NOT Edo Tensei, so that means that they were simply moved from Kabuto's hideout to the battlefield, they weren't brought back to life as they reached said battlefield. That means Kabuto already had used all of his Edo Tensei before the war began, he simply left a few dormant until summoning.

So, logically, Madara will suffer the same fate as all the other Edo Tensei, whatever it may be.
This will render the Kages as a bunch of weaklings for not being able to defeat Madara on their own.
__________________
When other men blindly follow the truth remember:
Nothing is true!
When other men are limited by morality and law remember:
Everything is permitted!

Quote:
We know the light...but when we shall create the dark?
Check out the new fanfiction bloghttp://celestcity.blogspot.com
Vishnu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 10:00 AM   #1594
Dagoro
The surgeon of death
 
Dagoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Braving the New World.
Posts: 8,833
Thanks: 76
Thanked 7,277 Times in 2,925 Posts
Dagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to all
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

They were up against an immortal with magical eyeballs that grant him unlimited "I win!!!!" buttons.

Hardly a fair fight.
Dagoro is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dagoro For This Useful Post:
kael03 (06-17-2012), Senkradlol (06-17-2012), UzumakiUchiha (06-17-2012), Vishnu (06-17-2012)
Old 06-17-2012, 10:28 AM   #1595
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu View Post
This will render the Kages as a bunch of weaklings for not being able to defeat Madara on their own.
Madara only exists for hype, absolutely nothing else. We all knew he'd get the shaft because of his status as Edo Tensei, since Kishimoto couldn't leave such plot device unfinished.

So everything Madara did, has done and probably will do in the next chapter is just to help someone else's status. While he did uncover Tobi's lie, he also hyped him because Madara knew and worked with Tobi and he wouldn't let some weakling to continue his legacy. Hashirama, oh Hashirama, he got hyped through the roof with Madara alone and that wasn't even needed! Also the Juubi was indirectly hyped, because if Madara was already so powerful and still wanted the Juubi, it's because the Juubi must be miles ahead of him.

The thing is, Kishimoto had to toss some sacrificial lambs for Madara to feed on just to hype the final villains, and he thought the Gokage were the best lambs on the field. You could throw any character or amount of characters out there, including Naruto, and the result would be the same: Madara roflstomping everything just to get the shaft later.
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3







Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Numinous For This Useful Post:
UzumakiUchiha (06-17-2012)
Old 06-17-2012, 10:30 AM   #1596
Vishnu
Hunter-Nin
 
Vishnu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Romania
Posts: 1,328
Thanks: 1,857
Thanked 2,172 Times in 789 Posts
Vishnu will become famous soon enoughVishnu will become famous soon enoughVishnu will become famous soon enough
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu View Post
This will render the Kages as a bunch of weaklings for not being able to defeat Madara on their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
They were up against an immortal with magical eyeballs that grant him unlimited "I win!!!!" buttons.

Hardly a fair fight.
Well, yeah...but i just enjoyed to see their arrogance smashed into pieces. I do not deny that Madara is an one man army. Anyway, I think that the only one who got out of this honorable is Onooki. He is an old fart that was better than the youngsters, and definitely had more balls.
__________________
When other men blindly follow the truth remember:
Nothing is true!
When other men are limited by morality and law remember:
Everything is permitted!

Quote:
We know the light...but when we shall create the dark?
Check out the new fanfiction bloghttp://celestcity.blogspot.com
Vishnu is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vishnu For This Useful Post:
UzumakiUchiha (06-17-2012)
Old 06-17-2012, 12:20 PM   #1597
jekyl_hyde
Hunter-Nin
 
jekyl_hyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,362
Thanks: 763
Thanked 1,248 Times in 521 Posts
jekyl_hyde is on a distinguished roadjekyl_hyde is on a distinguished road
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

ok, i went way back to confirm this. and there is an inconsistency.

1. back in part 1, when orochimaru uses edo tensai, he summons the two former hokages.

2. before the war starts, we see kabuto clap his hands together.

3. when edo-madara is brought into the picture, it is done through a summon by muu.

take it for what you will, but i think this is going to allow edo-madara to stick around and be finished off by sasuke and/or naruto.

Last edited by jekyl_hyde; 06-17-2012 at 12:38 PM.
jekyl_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 12:30 PM   #1598
jekyl_hyde
Hunter-Nin
 
jekyl_hyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,362
Thanks: 763
Thanked 1,248 Times in 521 Posts
jekyl_hyde is on a distinguished roadjekyl_hyde is on a distinguished road
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
So, logically, Madara will suffer the same fate as all the other Edo Tensei, whatever it may be.
I think you're wrong num.

Here's the evidence.

Don't know how great the translation is, but if this is a valid, trustworthy translation; believe it or not, Kishi isn't going to use a loop hole to keep edo-Madara around.
jekyl_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 03:04 PM   #1599
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Quote:
1. back in part 1, when orochimaru uses edo tensai, he summons the two former hokages.

2. before the war starts, we see kabuto clap his hands together.

3. when edo-madara is brought into the picture, it is done through a summon by muu.

take it for what you will, but i think this is going to allow edo-madara to stick around and be finished off by sasuke and/or naruto.
No, it won't. Muu used Kuchiyose no Jutsu, which just transports things from point A to point B, so Kabuto already had to bring Madara back (which he did back when he blackmailed Tobi) in order for Muu to summon it, so Madara is still under Kabuto's control, therefore if something happens to said control, Madara will suffer the same consequences as all other Edo tensei.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
I think you're wrong num.

Here's the evidence.
I'm sorry, this is evidence of what exactly? Nothing in that page tells how Madara will somehow remain an Edo-Tensei while others won't.

Quote:
Don't know how great the translation is, but if this is a valid, trustworthy translation; believe it or not, Kishi isn't going to use a loop hole to keep edo-Madara around.
I think you made a typo there, or are you agreeing with me?
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3







Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #1600
jekyl_hyde
Hunter-Nin
 
jekyl_hyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,362
Thanks: 763
Thanked 1,248 Times in 521 Posts
jekyl_hyde is on a distinguished roadjekyl_hyde is on a distinguished road
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
No, it won't. Muu used Kuchiyose no Jutsu, which just transports things from point A to point B, so Kabuto already had to bring Madara back (which he did back when he blackmailed Tobi) in order for Muu to summon it, so Madara is still under Kabuto's control, therefore if something happens to said control, Madara will suffer the same consequences as all other Edo tensei.
Yes, Kabuto summoned Madara, and then sent him back, or do I need to go get that page for you. It hasn't been shown if Kabuto is keeping all of the coffins stashed away somewhere or not. What we do know is that he does have the bodies for the edos to assimilate somewhere. But edo tensai is a jutsu, just like summoning is.

It hasn't been proven or disproven whether or not edo-tensai is a summoning jutsu or not.

We have two instances of edo tensai performed by two of the three users, which I provided. In Orochimaru's case, what has been provided was a summoning jutsu. In Kabuto's case, just a mere clap of the hands produced the coffins and edos.

From what has been provided through the manga, Muu summoned Madara through a summoning jutsu. It has not been provided if he moved him from point A to point B.

Heck, to go even further, you could say that edo tensai is a summoning justu, because it summons the soul of the shinobi from the afterlife (or whatever){point A}, bringing the soul (and abilities) of summoned shinobi, and having that soul assimiliate the body of a deceased person {point B}.



Quote:
I'm sorry, this is evidence of what exactly? Nothing in that page tells how Madara will somehow remain an Edo-Tensei while others won't.
Kabuto stated that he's changed his talisman that effects how much control he has over the edos. Not much has been divulged on edo tensai, so this all a theory/assumption.

It has also been shown that Kabuto doesn't have any control over Madara like he does Muu. Could this be because Muu was the body that summoned Madara, or could it be because Madara requires such chakra amounts to control, that no one can do it? Neither one can be proven or disproven until the next chapter or two once we have seen the end of the edos and whether or not Madara is still around.

Quote:
I think you made a typo there, or are you agreeing with me?
No typo, and I'm not agreeing with you parse. From that link, where Kabuto is talking about how he has adjusted his controling talisman, it could possibly be the evidence to prove or show that Madara will have the ability to stick around after the edos are gone. The top left panel is the key.

Kabuto says, "... in the end the weaker binding left their hearts open to being swayed, and loosening their souls to the point where they became freed." In context, I do believe that this passage is talking about the few edos that had already been set freed by... atonement I guess. But this also allows some leeway for edo-Madara to be "freed" of a different accord.

This is what I'm referring to by is the translation a good one or not.

Kishi has always used small subtle hints to predict future outcomes of the manga, whether it is artwork on the coverpages, or small hints in the passages of the manga.

Madara, the personification of anti-Naruto, has to stick around for Sasuke to surpass him, if we are headed to a Naruto-Sasuke showdown. Sasuke isn't completely anti-Naruto yet imo, but he is close.

When he stated that his resolve to destroy Konoha was even stronger after dealing with Itachi, he became like a smidgen away from being completely anti-Naruto.

Do I like all of this, no. But based on Kishi's writing style, I think that Madara will stick around, and this is why.

Last edited by jekyl_hyde; 06-17-2012 at 04:02 PM.
jekyl_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 04:37 PM   #1601
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

@ jekyl_hyde: Edo Tensei is a summoning jutsu but that doesn't mean its parental jutsu, Kuchiyose no Jutsu, alters in any way the nature of the summoned entity. It's clear Edo Tensei, with the talisman, can bind the summoned entity to the summoner, but Kuchiyose no Jutsu doesn't. All that the latter does is transportation, to there's no logical way it would interfere with Edo Tensei's binding. So just because Madara was summoned by Muu via Kuchiyose no Jutsu doesn't mean somehow he's special in terms of being safe from Edo Tensei's demise. After all, he was subject of the same jutsu all other Edo Tensei were, if he was brought back from the dead by another jutsu then you'd have a point.


Quote:
Kabuto stated that he's changed his talisman that effects how much control he has over the edos. Not much has been divulged on edo tensai, so this all a theory/assumption.

It has also been shown that Kabuto doesn't have any control over Madara like he does Muu. Could this be because Muu was the body that summoned Madara, or could it be because Madara requires such chakra amounts to control, that no one can do it? Neither one can be proven or disproven until the next chapter or two once we have seen the end of the edos and whether or not Madara is still around.
Or if you actually paid attention to the manga, Kabuto let Madara untouched in terms of control because he doesn't need to. Madara already wants the rest of the shinobi wrecked, so why control him and severely limit his jutsu (since probably Kabuto wouldn't know them all) when you can have a death machine on the loose by its own will?

Quote:
No typo, and I'm not agreeing with you parse. From that link, where Kabuto is talking about how he has adjusted his controling talisman, it could possibly be the evidence to prove or show that Madara will have the ability to stick around after the edos are gone. The top left panel is the key.

Kabuto says, "... in the end the weaker binding left their hearts open to being swayed, and loosening their souls to the point where they became freed." In context, I do believe that this passage is talking about the few edos that had already been set freed by... atonement I guess. But this also allows some leeway for edo-Madara to be "freed" of a different accord.
Wut? No, seriously, what are you talking about? How is this any pertinent to Madara's case? He's on his own free will and there's nothing that would convince that cocky bastard to "atone to his sins", considering characterization. The only way to take him out of the equation is indeed terminating Edo Tensei.

Quote:
This is what I'm referring to by is the translation a good one or not.

Kishi has always used small subtle hints to predict future outcomes of the manga, whether it is artwork on the coverpages, or small hints in the passages of the manga.
That's nice, but your point is kind of moot since it doesn't pertain to anything about Madara's Edo Tensei status.

Quote:
Madara, the personification of anti-Naruto, has to stick around for Sasuke to surpass him, if we are headed to a Naruto-Sasuke showdown. Sasuke isn't completely anti-Naruto yet imo, but he is close.
Oh, silly me, I thought Tobi was the anti-Naruto of this story to the point of being the guy fighting Naruto right now and pretty much the guy who created this war to begin with.

Quote:
When he stated that his resolve to destroy Konoha was even stronger after dealing with Itachi, he became like a smidgen away from being completely anti-Naruto.
... and then he went back to the "nii-san!" crying Sasuke the moment he saw Itachi back from the dead. You should really pay attention to what's happening.

Quote:
Do I like all of this, no. But based on Kishi's writing style, I think that Madara will stick around, and this is why.
Then prepare yourself for an anti-climax. Madara has nothing to do with Naruto or Sasuke, he's simply a relic of yore that represents the ways of old vs the new way of the Gokage and only exists to hype Tobi and the Juubi.
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3







Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Numinous For This Useful Post:
kael03 (06-18-2012)
Old 06-17-2012, 07:00 PM   #1602
jekyl_hyde
Hunter-Nin
 
jekyl_hyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,362
Thanks: 763
Thanked 1,248 Times in 521 Posts
jekyl_hyde is on a distinguished roadjekyl_hyde is on a distinguished road
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

@Num

One could make an argument that the talisman is like the blood contract one must have with a summon.

And you're not getting the point. Every single edo that was shown to be disappearing were those that were already summoned by Kabuto himself that hadn't been sealed by the shinobi alliance already.

You're acting as if edo tensai is done once, and Kabuto has the coffins/edos stashed somewhere else. That is what is inferred by your argument of Muu's kuchiyose no jutsu, moving edo-Madara from point a to point b.

I'm not saying you are wrong, and I'm not saying that you are right. What I am saying is that there are several variables in place, that have not been identified completely, and because of that, to say definitively that Madara will cease because of Itachi's Izanami... well, it's a theory, it's not fact.

You can't say that this piece of evidence belongs, but this piece doesn't, because every single piece I've brought so far does pertain to Edo Tensai. And they're inconsistent. We've been shown only two users of edo tensai, when there were actually three. We've seen two instances, one each, of them using the jutsu, and neither was alike. Kabuto did state that he has "perfected" it. But in the first instant we saw the jutsu, it was done as a kuchiyose no jutsu (summoning was the word used in the English transcript, which translates to kuchiyose). Could Kabuto's clap of his hands be the same as a kuchiyose? It's possible. Not saying that it is, but possible.

Secondly, Madara is the ultimate uber shinobi left in this manga excluding Naruto so far. Now, I could go on a rant at how this is an epic fail by Kishi (Naruto has already defeated a rinnegan user), but I'm not. But what Madara does have that Sasuke does not, is mastery of the EMS and Rinnegan. Sasuke doesn't even know the next step beyond the EMS, which he just obtained in the manga storyline. This alone shows that Sasuke isn't at Madara's level.

Yet, I'm supposed to accept what you state as Madara being a relic of yore to combat the Kages and new ideals (ideals which were in fact championed by the protagonist first, Naruto)? I don't think so, and the reason being, is because the identity of Tobi has not been revealed. Once again, there was the play on hints by Kabuto and Madara during their conversation, saying him. Tobi has to be up on the "oh shit!" meter, above Kabuto (he states to Madara that he is Tobi's assistant), but below Madara (Madara said that he must have something in mind, because Madara had planned all along to be resurrected, and apparently Tobi was to make sure that it happened).

I'm sure we'd all agree that Sasuke is right below Kabuto on that meter, maybe on the same level. That means that Sasuke has a ways to go, and he's supposed to be Naruto's last opponent?

And just so you know, I'm not in for a letdown with this manga, because I expect it. The only way I would be letdown is if Naruto dies, and Tsunade lives, with Sakura becoming the next Hokage.
jekyl_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 07:57 PM   #1603
el_deevil
sierra 117
 
el_deevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: .................................
Posts: 297
Thanks: 245
Thanked 112 Times in 73 Posts
el_deevil is on a distinguished road
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

I think I didn't make myself clear, by summoning I meant that the zombies were made to perform the edo tensei jutsu by Kabuto to bind the soul of another dead to the impure world. For eg. Muu or some other zombie who is still under the shadows performed the edo tensei off panel using Madara's remains and a sacrifice on Kabuto's will to create Madara's zombie (I am not talking about the scene where Muu summons Madara's coffin). So in order to destroy Madara one has to either seal him or force his zombie creator into making the handsigns of edo tensei release.
So when Itachi performs the edo tensei's release through Kabuto all the zombies created by Kabuto are destroyed along with the one who used edo tensei on Madara. But since Madara wasn't directly created by Kabuto but by one of his zombies Madara will only feel any control the zombie had on him being lifted instead of getting destroyed completely.
Its just a theory which could keep Madara in the game, but I am not completely sure about this like Num is about Madara zombie getting destroyed as well with the others, so we'll see what happens in the next chapters.
__________________
Don't think, it may sprain your brain!
Don't feel bad. A lot of people have no talent!
Don't you love nature, despite what it did to you?
el_deevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 08:31 AM   #1604
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

@ el_deevil:

There's a problem with that, though. If Kabuto is dismissing the Edo tensei right now, the Edo Tensei that brought back Madara in your POV couldn't release him, therefore Madara would still be around. Also, the only way to seal him would be with a soul-removing Fuuinjutsu, something that nobody so far is known to have. Restricting his movements is just delaying the inevitable and there's no indication Madara will be released via emotional BS. So either Madara goes away with all the other Edo Tensei or he won't go at all.

Quote:
@Num

One could make an argument that the talisman is like the blood contract one must have with a summon.
That's wrong. Have you paid no attention to the Edo Tensei ritual? Kabuto can summon at will any soul as long it isn't sealed and the DNA is at hand. The talisman is all about control, it isn't needed for Edo Tensei to be executed.

Quote:
And you're not getting the point. Every single edo that was shown to be disappearing were those that were already summoned by Kabuto himself that hadn't been sealed by the shinobi alliance already.
Historian's fallacy. The Edo Tensei released by emotion were so before Kabuto realized his grasp on his Edo Tensei had holes and had to reinforce the binding on most of them. You do realize that after that realization, no Edo tensei was freed due to their emotions, right?

Quote:
You're acting as if edo tensai is done once, and Kabuto has the coffins/edos stashed somewhere else. That is what is inferred by your argument of Muu's kuchiyose no jutsu, moving edo-Madara from point a to point b.

I'm not saying you are wrong, and I'm not saying that you are right. What I am saying is that there are several variables in place, that have not been identified completely, and because of that, to say definitively that Madara will cease because of Itachi's Izanami... well, it's a theory, it's not fact.
At least it's a thought based on logic, not a thought based on desire to see more from Madara or expecting Kishi to do an ass-pull.

Quote:
You can't say that this piece of evidence belongs, but this piece doesn't, because every single piece I've brought so far does pertain to Edo Tensai. And they're inconsistent.
The evidence on that page you linked previously has nothing to do with Madara's status as an Edo Tensei, only on his status of free will. You are yet to provide any evidence that suggests that Madara's status as an Edo Tensei is somehow different from all others to affirm there's any inconsistency.

Quote:
We've been shown only two users of edo tensai, when there were actually three.
Tobirama, Orochimaru and Kabuto. There's your three Edo Tensei users.

Quote:
We've seen two instances, one each, of them using the jutsu, and neither was alike. Kabuto did state that he has "perfected" it. But in the first instant we saw the jutsu, it was done as a kuchiyose no jutsu (summoning was the word used in the English transcript, which translates to kuchiyose). Could Kabuto's clap of his hands be the same as a kuchiyose? It's possible. Not saying that it is, but possible.
Or maybe Kishi skipped the handsigns to avoid wasting 5 panels, ever thought of that. And this right here reinforces my point instead of yours, you see Sasori in that Kuchiyose and he was already dismissed, so what's different about Madara? The fact he was summoned by Muu? That doesn't change the nature of either Edo Tensei or Kuchiyose no Jutsu.

Quote:
Secondly, Madara is the ultimate uber shinobi left in this manga excluding Naruto so far.
Appeal to emotion. We don't know what Tobi is fully capable off and there's still the Juubi, so if Madara goes away, that doesn't mean the manga will suddenly be without any powerful villain.

Quote:
Now, I could go on a rant at how this is an epic fail by Kishi (Naruto has already defeated a rinnegan user), but I'm not. But what Madara does have that Sasuke does not, is mastery of the EMS and Rinnegan. Sasuke doesn't even know the next step beyond the EMS, which he just obtained in the manga storyline. This alone shows that Sasuke isn't at Madara's level.
I'm sorry, but is Sasuke obliged to have the Rinnegan or to be at Edo Madara's power level to fulfill his role in the manga? And what good would do Sasuke fight Madara if he's indeed obliged? He won't have the time to pull any of the two off in time to finish Madara, so what's the point?

Sasuke could get them both for the Juubi, but Madara isn't needed. Have you forgotten Itachi is an exposition master and there's always the Uchiha tablet?

Quote:
Yet, I'm supposed to accept what you state as Madara being a relic of yore to combat the Kages and new ideals (ideals which were in fact championed by the protagonist first, Naruto)?
You're not getting the point of Madara vs Gokage in terms of narrative. They used to be (or at least their predecessors) like Madara in terms of ideology, but Jesus 2.0 Naruto changed them via Talk no Jutsu and now they're different. In a metaphorical way, they're fighting the ghost of their pasts in order to bring a new future. So Naruto and/or Sasuke fighting there adds nothing to the narrative or even derails it.

Quote:
I don't think so, and the reason being, is because the identity of Tobi has not been revealed. Once again, there was the play on hints by Kabuto and Madara during their conversation, saying him. Tobi has to be up on the "oh shit!" meter, above Kabuto (he states to Madara that he is Tobi's assistant), but below Madara (Madara said that he must have something in mind, because Madara had planned all along to be resurrected, and apparently Tobi was to make sure that it happened).
So you're saying Madara has to continue because he was Tobi's superior? Do I have to point out that in FF VI, Emperor Gestahl was the superior of Kefka and the latter was the one who survived to be the final villain? So appealing to the superiority of Madara in terms of command is moot since it doesn't grant Madara any plot shield by itself.

Quote:
I'm sure we'd all agree that Sasuke is right below Kabuto on that meter, maybe on the same level. That means that Sasuke has a ways to go, and he's supposed to be Naruto's last opponent?
Again, you're appealing to emotion. Sasuke doesn't need to be above Madara's level to be Naruto's last opponent, he only needs to be *gasp* the last!
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3







Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 12:52 PM   #1605
Konnaha_yellow_flash
Kage
 
Konnaha_yellow_flash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 7,810
Thanks: 853
Thanked 2,439 Times in 1,577 Posts
Konnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to all
Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Whats the discussion... Ways edo madara can cheat death from the ending of Edo tensai???

1. Madara is a special Edo in maybe more then one way... not only was he fitted with a complete body of hashirama chakra that boosted his EMS to the RG level.. but maybe is not bound by edo tensai as much as the rest. Kabuto has not been able to take over madara's consciousness and make him fight as he saw fit... Madara has been fighting on his own this entire time... meaning he might not be bound by edo tensai's limits and able to survive even the ending of the jutsu by being made separate from the others as a special edo... its an ass pull kishi can easily use...

2. Izanagi... With the EMS, RG and hashiramas full chakra capacity... edo madara could likely use a Izanagi of even the Rikudou sages level now. Allowing him to even survive the ending of the jutsu if hes connected to it like the other are.... Madara starts to light up and realizes the jutsu has been ended... he thinks to himself... he has finnally reaturned and in the ultimate body so he refuses to die so pitifully and uses Izanagi to turn the ending of the edo tensai into an illusion... allowing madara to survive and regenerate any damage he sustained from the ending of the jutsu...

3. Use king enma head of hell realm... It was able to put demon realm back together in a second, somehow canceling out the damage that was done to it... Perhaps edo madara could climb into enma head of hell realm to keep the ending of the jutsu form working by having the special power of the head to revive him once he's withered away back into earth and a living sacrifice...

4. Jump into another dimension....... Perhaps the Edo's ending jutsu only works on edo's in the same dimension the edo tensai release jutsu has been used... meaning madara could use a T/S jutsu (if he has one) to jump into an alternate dimension to keep the edo tensai release jutsu from effecting him....

5. Perhaps the transmigration eye... the RG... can offer the ability to actually transmigrate his soul just as it did with nagato's chakra/mind before, but into a surviving zetsu clone on the battle field....
Lets say that nagato's RG really was a generic version made from only a basic SG and not a MS of better yet, a EMS... So nagato's limit of transmigration was merely his chakra/mind into another by using chakra rod... However, maybe the true RG edo madara has made of a EMS+RG, is capable of transmigrating the soul, without chakra rods, but only into a body of the same chakra as his original body...
Like a chakra reciever, the zetsu's hashirama works as a means to transmigrate from zetsu to zetsu, as opposed to chakra rod, to chakra rod.... Only because of edo madara true RG though.

Thats all I got... Or madara dies right before hes about to pwn the kages... Sppppppppppppppppppppppp *thumbs down*
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
Konnaha_yellow_flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.