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Old 03-20-2009, 01:58 AM   #31
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

there is just one simple but at the same time imo hard to accomplish word that respond what pain said and what minato said, and also what everyone else in the thread is talking about (which in nonrelated to the manga)... FORGIVE.
Naruto is going to forgive pain for what he did... that's how he is going to bring pease to world. cant believe nobody said something like this before... unless i didnt read it.
(obviously that's not going to happen never ever in the real world)
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:16 AM   #32
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
IMO, wether its ninja system, samurai system, merchant system ect are all imperfect, but at least its a system. No matter what system is employed, there will be violence, there will be pain and there will be war. for the simple reason we are human, not machines driven by logic. And as humans, we are destined to have logic overcome by our emotions, thus making such a thing as war possible. So, how is any system going to bring peace without war? IMO, you cannot stop conflict from happeneing, you can only be there to Oppose it.
Very well said. Pacifisim, though a great thought, is inherently faulty and in fact tends to do create war rather than prevent it. If as Emachina said, the Western powers had stood up to Germanyin 1936, Hitler could have been taken out of power (especially considering in 1936, there was a secret German group waiting for the opportunity to depose him once he became unpopular..). The Shinobi world might just be a bit more upfront about human nature.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:19 AM   #33
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokudaime_hokage View Post
there is just one simple but at the same time imo hard to accomplish word that respond what pain said and what minato said, and also what everyone else in the thread is talking about (which in nonrelated to the manga)... FORGIVE.
Naruto is going to forgive pain for what he did... that's how he is going to bring pease to world. cant believe nobody said something like this before... unless i didnt read it.
(obviously that's not going to happen never ever in the real world)
Yeah, forgiveness will calm Nagato down. Not!
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:40 AM   #34
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

The ninja system of Naruto is the same as ours. How many wars have human create in the name of justice
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:15 AM   #35
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

^
^
ok first he is going to kick his ass... then when nagato is to narutos feet... naruto will say .... even though you destroy my beloved village and kill many people i love ... i forgive you...in order to brake the chain of hatred pain was talking about.

Last edited by rokudaime_hokage; 03-20-2009 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:57 AM   #36
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

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Originally Posted by rokudaime_hokage View Post
^
^
ok first he is going to kick his ass... then when nagato is to narutos feet... naruto will say .... even though you destroy my beloved village and kill many people i love ... i forgive you...then braking the chain of hatred pain was talking about.
That should shut Pein up, if it goes that way.
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Also Kin and Gin as substitute for kyuubi chakra (the greatest amount of chakra in Naruto world) is something Kishi pulled out of his ass. I lost major respect. It would be like near the end of LOTR there happens to be another slightly weaker ring and Sauron is like "that will do". It kind of shits on everything established up to that point. It kind of insults my intelligence.
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:23 PM   #37
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

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That should shut Pein up, if it goes that way.
Indeed it would haha

Will Naruto change the ninja world or will he fall the the ninja fate like his Kin before him. (insert crazy piano music) DUN...Dun....dun. Find out next time on the Wheel of Naruto's fortune
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:41 PM   #38
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

i think what pain says is somewhat true, there can't be true peace.. and his way may be the closest answer to "peace", in an creepy way. many would have to live under fear, and you can't call that freedom really..
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:17 PM   #39
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

You are thinking with judeochristian values.

Kishimoto might pull Naruto out and basically finish off Pain without remorse. Consider Nagato and Pain separate, perhaps he will offer the solution to Nagato, but Pain?

Naruto will be victorious, his enemies are born dead.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:20 PM   #40
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

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Originally Posted by Ironclad View Post
You are thinking with judeochristian values.

Kishimoto might pull Naruto out and basically finish off Pain without remorse. Consider Nagato and Pain separate, perhaps he will offer the solution to Nagato, but Pain?

Naruto will be victorious, his enemies are born dead.
you know a lot of people might think this is a little dirty
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:21 PM   #41
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

did naruto kill any of his oponents?
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:23 PM   #42
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

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did naruto kill any of his oponents?
kakasu or whatever his name is I think
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:27 PM   #43
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

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kakasu or whatever his name is I think
nop
kakashi moved in for the kill
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:31 PM   #44
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

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nop
kakashi moved in for the kill
Hmm well now is a good time to start. How about Sasuke
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:05 PM   #45
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Re: The ninja system - "there can be no peace or order"

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Originally Posted by hoggle2000 View Post
Sorry if this has already been discussed - couldn't see it immediately.

We've heard Pain's view of the ninja system which is quite a negative vew - he is embittered by the pain it causes but seems to believe that a large dose of pain will allow small pockets of peace to exist for limited periods of time. He also represented the small country against a much stronger force in Konoha which caused pain even through its desire to do good.

Naruto, even in his inexperience of war, acknowledges that peace is not an easy goal to obtain and recognises Pain's argument about a cycle of hatred and revenge caused through the name of justice.

Minato now appears and says that "maybe" as long as the ninja system exists there can be no peace or order.

So what now for the ultimate end of the manga? Does Naruto have to prove that he is greater tha his father and prove that the ninja system can exist with peace and order or will it all come to and end?

One thing is clear - Naruto will have the answer but there will surely have to be some sort of equality between the villages - (not hard now that Konha has been blown off the face of the Earth).

So what do you guys think is the moral/solution of the story?

EDIT: One other thing that occurs to me. Naruto has always been depicted as childlike in his approach to issues. Minato and Sarutobi couldn't solve these issues in all their wisdom. WIll Naruto find the solution with a childlike logic - the simplest of solutions which adults are blind to?

When Yahiko made his speech about bringing peace, as a child, Jiraiya didnt correct Yahiko. He didnt say anything. He saw the evil potential for what Sarutobi saw in Orochumaru, and ignored it, and kept training them. Yahiko was the "leader" when they were just kids. Then when Jiraiya went outside to talk to crybaby Negato, Jiray told him something like, because people dont understand the pain of others, is why they harm others. What would expect Negato with his life of pain to come up with as a solution.

Monato also said as long as there is love, there will be hatred, or something like that. Naruto cant end love. Even in a "perfect world" there will always be bad people who do bad things. I think Naruto will be the Hokage that establishes a truce between all vilagges, and enforces that truce. Eventually, each village will adopt the "will of fire" for their village and and fellow villages without even realizing it or knowing what it is. No more wars or civil wars, but everyday shinobi life goes on, and death on the battlefield is accepted as just death on the battlefield. Agreements are come to as opposed to continuing a feud until it escalates. Whenever something needs to be worked out, hold a Kage summit and nobody leaves until something is worked out. basically, just more respect and talking and less "unnecessary killings". If push comes to shove, Who can tell Hokage Naruto that they are going to treat people poorly if they want because they are Kage of their village?


Naruto already knows the solution, he just doesnt know he knows it. Temari told him the solution. Naruto has the power to change people. They learn to respect him and adopt his noble beliefs in their fellow shinobi. Not everyone, but they get defeated by him so they dont count. If u cant beatem joinem
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