Nakaichiro

^^ you got a laugh out of me for that one Miburo....

Orv just needs to wake up and read the pope's words as one human being talking to another, not as the head of a religion spreading the gospel.

Azumi

not really. did you read my post?
get it now?

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Nakaichiro

Yes i did and i was not arguing with your post, i was arguing with orvel, but seeing as you brought it up....

The culture of having multiple sexual partners came about long before the use of condoms. Think of the 60's here.... So no, Condoms are not the reason that people are shagging left right and centre. Yes it helps to know that you can protect yourself from STD's by using a condom and still enjoy having casual sex. But the condom is not the root cause of premarital sex.... So removing condoms is not going to remove the temptation of having sex with different partners.
It may make the more educated people think twice about it, but the less educated ones.... um like 90% of fucking Africa.... would not think twice about banging the shit out of some random girl/guy. So the education of safe sex needs to take top priority, then the education of abstinence can come into play.

I find it very funny that the only people in this thread that are defending the pope's words are the hugely religious ones. All you guys are actually proving is that you are too fanatical and closed minded to look at this situation objectively.

I am not saying that abstinence is not the best way to prevent STD spreading. It most certainly is, and if the pope had said. "I support the efforts of the world health organization and what they are doing to slow the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa. However i would like to urge the population of africa to consider the teachings in the bible as well, and realize that abstinence is the best policy. If you cannot abstain then condoms or non penetration sex are the best ways to go about looking after your own health."
Now if the pope had said this, it would be a different story. But he said that using condoms to prevent the spread of STD's is wrong and only makes the situation worse. To the un-educated that is a very dangerous statement.

Admitting that the pope was wrong to say that in that way is not paramount to you admitting that the religion he stands for is wrong. It only amounts to proving that he is human like the rest of us. If not a very irresponsible one.
No-one here is accusing the catholic religion of being wrong... it is not about the religion it is about him being a man in a high profile seat of office. I bet if that was Bush saying those exact words you would be humming to a different tune.

If human beings cannot muster the strength and reason to question the people in power, then how are we to advance as a moral and ethically sound civilization?

Azumi

Nakaichi, the only thing that the pope wants to express is that due to the huge number of HIV/AIDS victims particularly in Africa, it is wise not to depend on the use of condoms when it comes to multi-partner sex relationships, which is one of the reasons of the HIV/AIDS epidemic. For short, refrain from having multi-sex partners and dont use the condoms as an excuse.
The very reason why the Pope expresses such concern is on the fact the condoms are used to prevent STDs but still the epidemic of HIV/AIDS is on high, and the pope came into a conclusion that condoms are not the answer to prevent HIV/AIDS. "The Roman Catholic church encourages sexual abstinence and fidelity to prevent the disease from spreading." The pope addressed this to the African continent, which holds the most number of HIV/AIDS victims. So im quite confused why you guys are making a fuss.

why not? As long as we know what the Pope says is for the good of others, why would I disagree with him?
And you think we are that too fanatical? Not really. The pope has a reason for his statements. I, myself, am balancing the situation.

For what reason? You know what, i like you and i have nothing against you, but i just dont like the way you mock the Church leaders as if they are corrupt and stupid. I know you are an atheist (though u believe in a different kind of god, FTW), but it doesnt mean you have the right to call the church leaders names that are quite an insult to our religion.

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Nakaichiro

You still miss the point Azumi, it has nothing to do with him being a church leader that i am saying that he is irresponsible.
This is his quote:
Now to intelligent people like me and you this is not a dangerous statement at all and is not too bad. That is because I can see that this statement needs to be joined and analyzed together with this one:
The problem comes when people who are less educated than me and you, and are also not first/second language english speaking citizens. They have no access to TV but are prone to believe the broken telephone that is Africa's news network. That news network consists of what Peter told Paul. So they only look at the first statement and see. Wow, the pope(read as: Some person of high office and influence) says that we must not use condoms to prevent the spread of aids.
In fact it makes things worse. So they think that they must not use condoms. They are still going to have sex with many partners because that is part of the true African culture. Men can have multiple wives and multiple partners in many parts of Africa.

I completely agree with the message that he is trying to convey. But by undermining other preventative measures, he has implied to the uneducated that condoms must not be used at all. The message is correct and true, but he implied abstinence in exclusion of other preventative measures, that is why it is irresponsible.
I could not care less that he is the pope, he could be the president of a country, the king of England, the secretary general of the UN for all i care. The fact of the matter is that he is a very influential person that spoke out without fully understanding the situation in Africa. That is the culture and education situation of Africa.

I live with these people, work with these people, speak with these people every day, and i'm in the most developed country in Africa. Education and infrastructure wise. I have encountered many people already that took his words the wrong way and have said to me, "then im not using a condom because it makes things worse". I would hate to think what impact his words will have in the other regions of Africa. So do not tell me that he conveyed his message across correctly, he did not, he stuffed it up. For that reason and that reason alone i am saying that he is being irresponsible, not because he is a religious leader.
I dont mean to insult a religious leader, i mean to point out that Mr. Benedict spoke irresponsibly considering the whole situation of Africa.

Miburo

The pope saying condoms make shit worse is completely fucking wrong though, no matter what else he says in addition to it. There aren't any credible studies showing that people are more irresponsible sexually when they have a condom. That's just bullshit.

Condoms help control the spread of sexually transmitted diseases like AIDS. Saying they make shit worse is irresponsible and just plain fucking incorrect. It doesn't matter who is saying it, it's an incorrect statement regardless. Anyone who thinks condoms don't help control the spread of STDs is an idiot. It really is as simple as that.

zer0systm

The Pope and Queen Elizabeth were standing on a balcony beaming at thousands of people in the forecourt below. The Queen says to the Pope out of the corner of her mouth, "I bet you a tenner that I can make every English person in the crowd go wild with just a wave of my hand." The Pope says, "No way. You can't do that."
The Queen says, "Watch this."
So the Queen waves her hand and every English person in the crowd goes crazy, waving their little plastic Union Jacks on sticks and cheering, basically going ballistic.

So the Pope is standing there thinking, "Uh oh, what am I going to do? I never thought she'd be able to do it."
So he thinks to himself for a minute and then he turns to her and says,
"I bet you I can make every Irish person in the crowd go wild, not just now, but for the rest of the week, with just one nod of my head."
The Queen goes, "No way, it can't be done."
So the Pope headbutts her.

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Azumi

I understand your point. But the pope was also trying to evangelize the people in some way, like encouraging them to learn the teachings of the Bible, coz the Pope was certain that they could learn more from it about fidelity to their partners and how to be responsible when it comes to sex.
and i guess it's about time the African people change their culture a bit. Anyway, change is the only constant thing in the world. ^^,

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Vanity

Condoms ARE evil.

Killing the feeling ftl.

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Tanya=^^=

Agree. Fortunately, Christianism IS spreading in Africa. I think many people underestimate moral and religious values and what they can do for people. We think that just because we have education it's equivalent to wisdom or better judgement. Anybody that has spent time with really poor people can realize how much more they understand about values than us the "privileged ones" that have everything we need to survive. Faith is not something you can underestimate, and for it to be true and positive it has to be a conscious faith, a choice, not an imposition.

No one can say that is negative that a person from Africa decides to practice abstinence and the non use of condoms to prevent AIDS as a part of their religious beliefs. THAT spirit of believing in religious teachings and accepting them as something good is preciselythe base for the words of Benedict XVI, because african people have recently found Christianiy and made it a substancial part of their lives...

The Pope will not say anything against Jesus's teachings...Saying that condoms are the best choice to fight AIDS or STD's would be contradictory.

I don't think that the Pope's comments were irresponsible. I think he said what God wanted him to say, regardless of the human opinion.

It really doesn't take that much to see that the best option is abstinence. Not just in Africa but ANYWHERE. Having multiple partners and a active sex life outside marriage is inconvenient, with many risks both for health and mind, it even has an economical impact. Ever wonder how much money it costs to maintain a contraceptive method? And the list goes on...

Overall, I think the Pope did just what he had to do: use the Gospel has his main work tool for the world.

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La princesa que creía en cuentos de hadas

Tanya=^^=

There are comments in this post that are an offense to catholics and christians in general having refered to the Bible in such a disrespecful way. Please stop making remarks of this kind.

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La princesa que creía en cuentos de hadas

Miburo

You, and others, are missing the point. He's saying condoms DON'T STOP THE SPREAD OF AIDS, AND ACTUALLY MAKE THINGS WORSE! Spreading blatant misinformation to an uneducated public when you're a speaker of authority could easily result in people fucking dying. A lot of people. Why would people who don't know any better use condoms if some dude is telling them that condoms don't work? That's horrible.

Oh, and it offends the shit out of me. Just as people defending that kind of irresponsible shit offends the shit out of me. Please stop posting. = (

Vanity

And I find the misuse of Biblical text to be EXTREMELY fucking offensive :| [and stupidity]. Shut up.

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Yes, bad.

Stay with me.

Speak to me.
Why do you never speak?

Speak.
What are you thinking of?

What thinking?
What?

I never know what you are thinking.

Think.

Tanya=^^=

Well, the thing is that the use of condoms is merely paliative. Using a condom is not 100% efective against HIV or STD's. The root of the problem is what needs to be solved in order to make a true difference and the root of the problem is multiple sex partners. If using condoms is the best way, then tell me how is it that having a better technology in their developement and more propaganda about them haven't helped to solve the problem and the number of cases keeps increasing?

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La princesa que creía en cuentos de hadas

Azumi

Which is true and cant be denied because if it DOES STOP the SPREAD OF AIDS then the continent should not be scratching their heads trying to figure out the BEST way to stop AIDS from spreading further.

and
Which is just an effect of the continent's culture of having multi-sex partners. The "irresponsible" thing here is not the Pope's words, but the people's use of condoms. "You can use your condom and fuck your wife every night and i assure you, never will you acquire AIDS. But use condoms and fuck every girl you see in the pub, then you are as fucked up as well." You see the difference?

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