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Old 05-14-2009, 04:17 PM   #61
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

They can censor the internet.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:20 PM   #62
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

ya they probably can but who's going to listen and what they gonna do if we don't listen send us to jail whats that half the country in jail
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:36 PM   #63
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

The orphan works bill and this shit now? doomed.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:04 PM   #64
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog View Post
The bill in this thread? why?

If you'll be using it for your LAW Class, why use this bill? why not use other useful bills like Obama's Tax Rebate Act, or the Bailout Bill passed by US Congress?

If you want an international law that's a little easier to defend, why not use the ANTI-PIRACY Law. question why Piracy is a continuing crime and stuff like that...

but if you're already decided on this law, then so be it.
if you're on the pro team, debate on its usefulness for safeguarding the young.
if you're on the con team, debate on the plausibility of its implementation. tracking an offender would cost more than the amount of the fine. it will be difficult to convict anyone under the circumstances given under the bill...
I don't care about usefulness, or whatever. I had a project, this was a convenient topic. And I already said I'm arguing against it. You gave me some pretty good ideas earlier in the thread, but I need more.

Thanks, Miburo.
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:34 AM   #65
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

ok. granted.

fearless leader and the rest of the people pointed out on the uselessness of the bill and focused more on the other ways wherein children will be less affected by CyberBullying. Madness already said that the US government can censor the internet.

say that censoring the internet is tantamount to entering the privacy of houses because a computer is a personal solace of a private person. it will be against the Bill of Rights (check the Constitution of your country. sorry, i don't know if Andorra is a place). therefore, the evidence that will be gathered against an offender will have to be illegally taken (against the right to privacy), use the analogy of the "fruit of a poisonous tree". the evidence (offending blog) is the fruit, and the illegal means of retrieving the blog (against right to privacy) is the poisonous tree.

according to public international law, no illegally procured evidence shall be used against an accused in the courts of law. (use your own country's law to support this.)

then, we have a this animal called "CyberBullying", which is proposed to become punishable by American Law, but no evidence can ever be presented in the courts of law to convict an offender. you therefore have a crime, that can never be punished!!!

continue your statement with the focus on the side effects if this law is passed. if the government is allowed to freely censor the government and use the information gathered as evidence, then it will be susceptible to abuses in the future. your emails will no longer be safe, your private conversations are forever monitored.

end your piece with a comparison of Robert Clayton Dean (Will Smith in the movie Enemy of the State). if life is always monitored by the government using technology, then Americans are always under surveillance...

support your statements with researched facts (like your Bill of Rights), and you have an A+ paper!


EDIT: i focused more on the INTERWEBS. the Bill also proposes Cellular phones and iPods and other technology. basically, they are against privacy as well.
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:20 PM   #66
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog View Post
say that censoring the internet is tantamount to entering the privacy of houses because a computer is a personal solace of a private person.
The internet isn't on your computer, it's public domain. You're making public anything you do online that can be viewed by other users, so you have no claims to "privacy".

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog View Post
according to public international law, no illegally procured evidence shall be used against an accused in the courts of law. (use your own country's law to support this.)
...
it will be against the Bill of Rights therefore, the evidence that will be gathered against an offender will have to be illegally taken
Unless your ISP's EULA says the government need only ask for all of your information.

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Originally Posted by maddog View Post
(against the right to privacy), use the analogy of the "fruit of a poisonous tree". the evidence (offending blog) is the fruit, and the illegal means of retrieving the blog (against right to privacy) is the poisonous tree.
lolwut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog View Post
then, we have a this animal called "CyberBullying", which is proposed to become punishable by American Law, but no evidence can ever be presented in the courts of law to convict an offender. you therefore have a crime, that can never be punished!!!
Evidence can be legally acquired under the correct cicumstances, therefore, you're crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog View Post
continue your statement with the focus on the side effects if this law is passed. if the government is allowed to freely censor the government and use the information gathered as evidence, then it will be susceptible to abuses in the future. your emails will no longer be safe, your private conversations are forever monitored.
On the one hand, I agree with this.
On the other, if you're not doing anything illegal, then what do you have to fear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog View Post
end your piece with a comparison of Robert Clayton Dean (Will Smith in the movie Enemy of the State). if life is always monitored by the government using technology, then Americans are always under surveillance...
Then move to the mountains, hunt your own food like a man and get 5+ wives. Win/win!

Side note for you crazy Obama lovers: He is in favour of Warrantless Wiretapping.

Last edited by Mal; 05-15-2009 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:07 PM   #67
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

Thanks to maddog for the ideas, and to Mal for filtering them. Also, maddog, I'm obviously American. Why would my teacher make me argue against a law some other country may or may not pass?
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:25 PM   #68
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal View Post
On the other, if you're not doing anything illegal, then what do you have to fear?
A massive lost in freedom, something our manly country was founded upon.
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Miburo is an idiot and will not be welcomed back to the forum. I'm not afraid of what he says, just nothing he says is worth reading. Everything he says is just a combination of profanity and stupidity. If he has an issue, he can address it with me personally. He just has to resolve to personal attacks which were unwarranted considering I have never even talked to the guy until 2 days ago.
Yeah, fuck that guy.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:30 PM   #69
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solus Bringer View Post
Yeah the american government has finally gotten the balls to try to censor the internet by passing a bill that makes cyber bullying a crim its called the Megan Miear cyber bully prevention act or something like that so what do you guys think about this
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:03 PM   #70
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

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A massive lost in freedom, something our manly country was founded upon.
The freedom to break the law when no one's watching? That's the only "freedom" I can see anyone loosing when they're simply observed.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:37 PM   #71
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

Privacy.

By that logic, you would be fine with video cameras set up all around your house (and your fiancee's living quarters, bathroom, etc.) to make sure no wrong-doings are being committed, correct?
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Miburo is an idiot and will not be welcomed back to the forum. I'm not afraid of what he says, just nothing he says is worth reading. Everything he says is just a combination of profanity and stupidity. If he has an issue, he can address it with me personally. He just has to resolve to personal attacks which were unwarranted considering I have never even talked to the guy until 2 days ago.
Yeah, fuck that guy.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:38 PM   #72
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

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The freedom to break the law when no one's watching? That's the only "freedom" I can see anyone loosing when they're simply observed.
...you don't see anything wrong with being observed?
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:45 AM   #73
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal View Post
The internet isn't on your computer, it's public domain. You're making public anything you do online that can be viewed by other users, so you have no claims to "privacy".
The Internet is Public domain. if you post on a public site like this one., then you make your statements public. just like talking in public where it is for everyone to hear. that's a public statement. but when you're making a a private correspondence, like when sending a PM, then that should be considered as a private correspondence covered by the right to send out private correspondence under your American Constitution, and under International Law as well. it is technically from your computer, passing through Internet. but it is still considered private. just like when you send a letter via post. censoring the Internet would be like opening your mail, before reaching you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal View Post
Unless your ISP's EULA says the government need only ask for all of your information.
thank you for this information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal View Post
lolwut?
the "Fruit of the poisonous tree" concept was created by US Supreme Court Justice Marshall in the early years of post World War I. it takes away the chance of a person in power to abuse this power by doing illegal means to gather evidence against a person, and then convicting said person using the illegally taken evidence. a very good example of this is when a semen sample is taken from a rape victim, then "without your consent" takes a blood sample from you, and matches the DNA from the two samples, then convicting you of the crime of rape. that is against your right against self incrimination.

now take that context in the sense of a computer. would you consent to the taking of private messages wherein your computer was used to make, thereby convicting you of CyberBullying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal View Post
Evidence can be legally acquired under the correct cicumstances, therefore, you're crazy.
Fortunately, you are right. it can be acquired "under the correct circumstances. but unfortunately, violating your right to privacy is not the correct one. Your American Constitution always prevails over locally mandated laws, even new laws passed by congress. if a law is against any Human Right, it is declared unconstitutional, and thereby invalidated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal View Post
On the one hand, I agree with this.
On the other, if you're not doing anything illegal, then what do you have to fear?
Though you are not doing something illegal, the people in power uses an illegal means to observe your movements. you are then susceptible for abuses. what is stopping them from randomly planting evidence against you, and using you as an escape goat. i would say that this is far fetched, but it can happen. it's just like walking the streets, doing nothing illegal, but a police officer suddenly arrests you, and plant a pack of cocaine in your pocket. that's abusing power. even the internet will no longer be safe from power abuses when the time comes...


Quote:
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Then move to the mountains, hunt your own food like a man and get 5+ wives. Win/win!
then that's simply surrendering your freedom. Benjamin Franklin has something to say about that. (I think it was FL who quoted this somewhere in the threads). If you sacrifice freedom for peace, then you lose both. you go to the mountains and seclude yourself, but that won't really solve the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal View Post
Side note for you crazy Obama lovers: He is in favour of Warrantless Wiretapping.
i have no comment on this. Obama made some good laws, but i don't think this is a good one...

i go with FL and Mad's sentiments. privacy is something that must be protected. that's why the right to privacy is protected under your American Constitution, and also under International Law.

@SK: you have both sides of the argument now... i think more questions will be thrown your way. if you have any other questions you want to throw my way, just PM me. good luck on your project man...
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Old 05-16-2009, 01:04 AM   #74
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

Mal is Canadian. Lolololol


Censoring the internet is retarded. For real.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:12 AM   #75
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Re: NOOOOOO Flaming is about to become a crime

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Originally Posted by Solus Bringer View Post
Yeah the american government has finally gotten the balls to try to censor the internet by passing a bill that makes cyber bullying a crim its called the Megan Miear cyber bully prevention act or something like that so what do you guys think about this
I think that they should be more concerned with the bullying that goes on in schools so children dont have to deal with the emotional, and mental damage that this may cause them. So children dont have to grow up hating going to school or the embarrassment and everything else that comes from the bullying. Some of these kids end up killing classmates because of the mental stress they have received. How hard it must have been for them to drive them that far. They usually end up taking their own life. That is the only important bullying that the government needs to be worrying about.


Online its a bunch of strangers. Unless this is done to prevent the potential lost of lives, it is just another way for the government to gain more "power" over the people and our "freedoms". Either way, bullying in the schools should take priority since for one, they are only children and shouldnt have to endure this for years straight, and 2 we have already heard of mass murders and sucides because of it. Teachers and parents need to be forced to take a stronger role and the government needs to be enforcing that, and punishments for aloowing or overlooking school bullying.
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