Sage Mode Versus Gen-Jutsu

AnbuKakashi · 06-12-2009, 09:51 AM

I have been thinking about how sage mode works etc, and I wanted to see the opinions of others, Ill state My opinion now, which I believe is right.

First you need to ask yourself:
What happens when you enter sage mode?

The answer is, You start to Draw in Natural Chakra which does not nicur on your personal chakra and is much stronger than normal chakra.

Now Ask yourself what happens to someone who cannot master sage mode?
Well they turn into a frog statue correct?

Here is where it gets quite interesting.

How is Gen-Jutsu Performed? Gen jutsu is where you take control of your opponents chakra Circulating in their head. It lets you control everything they see but not their actions. After your caught it pretty much comes down to your intellect and judgement to decifer wheter it is real or not.

Well, Say for instance Naruto gets Caught in A Gen-jutsu, we all already know he is pretty weak agaisnt Gen-jutsu. Jiraiya did teach him ways to get out yes, but he still hasnt really mastered them.

All Naruto would need to do is go into sage mode. It gets funny here. Now the chakra is changing rapidly, into Natural chakra mixed with Normal Chakra.

what happens when you cant control natural chakra? You turn into a Frog statue right? Even if someone as powerful as itachi could control the Natural chakra, The chakra is changing so rapidly that it would be very hard to keep cntrolling their chakra and having them in a gen-jutsu.

Hence meaning for all the people who love sasuke. Sasuke's Mangekyo Is useless versus Naruto.

Ill rest my case here, but please If you believe Im wrong state it.

trondah · 06-12-2009, 10:22 AM

Uhm, no?

Genjutsu is more or less injecting chakra into someone else, disturbing their chakra. If anything, Sasuke's Mangekyou will turn Naruto into a frog, since his chakra will be disturbed.

The only option Naruto has to counter genjutsu is by partnering up with kyuubi. Which will happen eventually.

AnbuKakashi · 06-12-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trondah

Uhm, no?

Genjutsu is more or less injecting chakra into someone else, disturbing their chakra. If anything, Sasuke's Mangekyou will turn Naruto into a frog, since his chakra will be disturbed.

The only option Naruto has to counter genjutsu is by partnering up with kyuubi. Which will happen eventually.

Injecting? Woudltn that require a needle? lol

You just stated a little sentence with nothing to back it up.

AnbuKakashi · 06-12-2009, 10:35 AM

Here is a minor part of genjutsu usage. Heres the link incase anythign else.

http://forum.onemanga.com/archive/in...p/t-41378.html

Genjutsu (Illusion Techniques)
Genjutsu techniques are the illusion techniques of a ninja, they normally require hand seals. Genjutsu will use hypnotism to cause hallucinations in others. By causing such illusions they can cause their target mental pain and suffering just as real as physical hurt. Genjutsu is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their minds chakra, thereby affecting their five senses.

To combat the effects of Genjutsu, there are two options. The first option is for the ninja to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside ninja unaffected by the Genjutsu make body contact, and use their chakra to disrupt the casters flow.

This is why I believe Sage mode can completely Counter any gen jutsu or even as powerful as Mangekyo Tsukioumi.

TheSixthHokage · 06-12-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnbuKakashi

Here is a minor part of genjutsu usage. Heres the link incase anythign else.

http://forum.onemanga.com/archive/in...p/t-41378.html

Genjutsu (Illusion Techniques)
Genjutsu techniques are the illusion techniques of a ninja, they normally require hand seals. Genjutsu will use hypnotism to cause hallucinations in others. By causing such illusions they can cause their target mental pain and suffering just as real as physical hurt. Genjutsu is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their minds chakra, thereby affecting their five senses.

To combat the effects of Genjutsu, there are two options. The first option is for the ninja to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside ninja unaffected by the Genjutsu make body contact, and use their chakra to disrupt the casters flow.

This is why I believe Sage mode can completely Counter any gen jutsu or even as powerful as Mangekyo Tsukioumi.

Genjutsu will at best, save Sasuke's ass from a FRS once or twice. Naruto's amazing chakra capacity normally along with the nature augmentation will outmatch any attempt at genjutsu in my eyes and since we all saw a glimpse of Kyuubi-Sage Mode, I'd say his power to control the Kyuubi is increasing, so expect the Kyuubi to inject chakra into Naruto anyways. Naruto versus Sasuke III will be a taijutsu and more importantly ninjutsu spam war.

dsyoji · 06-12-2009, 01:44 PM

The main reason Sakara is able to disperse a genjutsu better than Naruto is because she has better chakra control than Naruto. I think his Sage training will give him the added benefit of being able to disperse a genjutsu because of the level of concentration he had to master in order to become a Sage.

Vengeance · 06-12-2009, 02:05 PM

Well Naruto shouldn't fall for Sasuke's genjutsu as he already knows how to avoid it. The only reason Naruto is getting caught in genjutsu against Itachi is because Itachi can cast genjutsu from a finger & also has a crow bushin jutsu that allows him to carry over his sharingan for a sneak casting. Naruto has stated himself the different ways to avoid genjutsu & Sasuke is not on Itachi's level in this regard.

Per your theory it makes sense that Naruto can overpower genjutsu with Sage mode. He did after all overpower Nagato's chakra & used his own tool against him (stabbing himself & finding his location).

Konnaha_yellow_flash · 06-12-2009, 02:30 PM

Seriously? Base naruto couldnt even handel a finger gen from a 30 percent itachi yet because of SM narutos immune to even tsukuyomi, lol. Come on guys, SM increases his chances of breaking out of genjutsu so finger gen is as good as broken. However, SG gen is on another level I mean Oro was a genjutsu user yet SG gen raped him. then there MS tsukuyomi thats on an entirely new level beyond SG genjutsu. Lol, even KB as powerful as he is needed his bijuu to snap him out with a huge amount of chakra. So, regular gen or possibly even SG gen isnt enough "maybe" to beat naruto, but tsukuyomi will hand him his ass unless the kyuubi injects his unlimited amount of chakra in him, lol.

freedom07 · 06-12-2009, 02:42 PM

genjutsu is when u disturb someones chkara with your own...it can be inflicted by using the 5 senses..

the only time ppl have got out of genjutsu is when

1. you release it yourself with the "kai" thing (this only seems to work on weak genjutsu as naruto couldnt use it to break out of a genjutsu form 30% itachi)

2. when OTHER ppl correct the chakra flow with their own chakra ....sage mode natural chakra would not help ...becuase the genjutsu would distrupt that flow..if u think when naruto is in genjutsu under normal mode and then try to break out of it by going sage mode,..that could work but he would have to be really really good at control because if he doesnt he will turn into a frog..

3. sharingan.- at the moment it seems that the only other option that doesnt involve other ppl (or chakra beasts) to diffuse good genjutsu is with sharingan-as proven with itachi when he got out of kurenais and when sasuke got out of itachis

like other ppl have said if anything genjutsu would either turn naruto into a frog or break the sage mode and turn him back to normal ( i think naruto only goes to a frog if he misproperly balances the chakra when GATHERING it so if hes already in sage mode i reckon itll just turn him back normal)

KatrinaKatt · 06-12-2009, 03:10 PM

I suspect that after Sasuke's last encounter with Killer Bee, where he attempted to and failed to use Genjutsu on a Jinchuuriki, he won't make the same mistake twice. He even explained to Sasuke why, and thats because his Bijuu dispelled it for him. Granted, Naruto isn't exactly friends with the Fox, but he has the same potential, and Sasuke should be smart enough to realize this and be leery about wasting a vast amount of chakra on a MS Genjutsu.

Although I do happen to agree with you AnbuKakashi: Genjutsu is the control of the five-senses via manipulating their chakra. You can manipulate their regular chakra all you want, but at the end of the day you're not controlling the "Natural Chakra". Since the Natural energy has been shown to increase ones stats in more ways than one, I suspect a Genjutsu would be (much) less effective, but PnJ is very strong so...

edit: But when you say Naruto is immune to Sasuke's MS, don't forget MS isn't just Genjutsu

dsyoji · 06-12-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedom07

genjutsu is when u disturb someones chkara with your own...it can be inflicted by using the 5 senses..

the only time ppl have got out of genjutsu is when

1. you release it yourself with the "kai" thing (this only seems to work on weak genjutsu as naruto couldnt use it to break out of a genjutsu form 30% itachi)

2. when OTHER ppl correct the chakra flow with their own chakra ....sage mode natural chakra would not help ...becuase the genjutsu would disrupt that flow..if u think when naruto is in genjutsu under normal mode and then try to break out of it by going sage mode,..that could work but he would have to be really really good at control because if he doesn't he will turn into a frog..

3. sharingan.- at the moment it seems that the only other option that doesnt involve other ppl (or chakra beasts) to diffuse good genjutsu is with sharingan-as proven with itachi when he got out of kurenais and when sasuke got out of itachis

like other ppl have said if anything genjutsu would either turn naruto into a frog or break the sage mode and turn him back to normal ( i think naruto only goes to a frog if he misproperly balances the chakra when GATHERING it so if hes already in sage mode i reckon itll just turn him back normal)

Actually, as far as Naruto turning into frog it couldn't happen. The frog transformation only occurs when he is trying to absorb NE. Once he has formed Sage chakra that part of the equation is taken out of the picture.

I am theorizing that since his sage training required him to master his concentration that his chakra control will also be increased. Maybe not to the same degree as Sakura but much closer. J-man taught Naruto a way to dispel a genjutsu, though it didn't work with Itachi but who's to say that it wouldn't work against Sasuke seeing how his proficiency with genjutsu isn't going to be on the same level as Itachi.

Konnaha_yellow_flash · 06-12-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsyoji

Actually, as far as Naruto turning into frog it couldn't happen. The frog transformation only occurs when he is trying to absorb NE. Once he has formed Sage chakra that part of the equation is taken out of the picture.

I am theorizing that since his sage training required him to master his concentration that his chakra control will also be increased. Maybe not to the same degree as Sakura but much closer. J-man taught Naruto a way to dispel a genjutsu, though it didn't work with Itachi but who's to say that it wouldn't work against Sasuke seeing how his proficiency with genjutsu isn't going to be on the same level as Itachi.

I agree narutos chakra control will be better then ever, but still not up to par with even sakura though. however, I agree sasuke isnt an expert genjutsu user, but his SG genjutsu beat Oros rebirth jutsu in his own demension none the less, as well as compete with itachis. Well my point being that sasukes SG genjutsu will be on a whole other level than itachi clones finger gen.

Also, as freedom said, Sasuke already showed he can manipultae with his genjutsu when he made Deidei think he killed him with C4. So, just as well sasuke could see narutos SM, wait for him to run out of sage chakra then catch him in a genjutsu and make him think hes in SM giving him a false sense of security which will make him vulnerable.

liondemon · 06-12-2009, 09:22 PM

Naruto can now throw his sage chakra from his punches and kicks. He can sit completely still and draw and perfectly mix his chakra and natural energy. I think his cjakra contrl should be on Sakura's level. To summon all your chakra and release like Tsunade and Sakura does was said to take great chakra control. It took that for Naruto to even be able to go SM without becoming a toad, and Naruto using Frog Fu is releasing and forcing his Sage Chara from out his body. Similar to what gentle fist looked like but with a far longer external reach, and we know all unique to Hyuuga's moves require great chakra control

Myth · 06-12-2009, 09:31 PM

30% itachi genjutsuy>sasuke 100% genjutsu itachi was god in genjutsu plain nd simple sauske is nowhere near that level. itachi could cast them with body parts nd as veng said he can use his crows to cast it as well.... he's so good he can take ur genjutsu nd use it on u like he did with kurenai...

Sasuke hasn't shown any great genjutsu skill not 1 to actually get naruto like itachi did...

Konnaha_yellow_flash · 06-12-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myth

30% itachi genjutsuy>sasuke 100% genjutsu itachi was god in genjutsu plain nd simple sauske is nowhere near that level. itachi could cast them with body parts nd as veng said he can use his crows to cast it as well.... he's so good he can take ur genjutsu nd use it on u like he did with kurenai...

Sasuke hasn't shown any great genjutsu skill not 1 to actually get naruto like itachi did...

Yeah, w/e you say Myth lol.

Oro uses regular genjutsu like a itachis finger genjutsu, but sasukes SG genraped him in his own demention, lol. Sasuke was even able to compete against iatchis SG genjutsu which also raped Oro as well. Sasuke used genjutsu on sai, manda and deidara so hes alot better than people give him credit for well, you think sasuke sucks no matter what so trying to convince you is like telling a true believer that god doesnt exist.

Also, when did itachi use his crows to catch naruto in the genjutsu because itachi said naruto was already caught while he was fighting with the crows.

EDIT: What do you mean sasuke hasnt shown any skill to get naruto lol. Look how far away sasuke is from deidara when he catches him in a genjutsu herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/06/
Proved by thishttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/15/

06-12-2009, 09:51 AM	#1
AnbuKakashi Chuunin Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Miami, Florida Age: 26 Posts: 392 Thanks: 55 Thanked 28 Times in 18 Posts	Sage Mode Versus Gen-Jutsu I have been thinking about how sage mode works etc, and I wanted to see the opinions of others, Ill state My opinion now, which I believe is right. First you need to ask yourself: What happens when you enter sage mode? The answer is, You start to Draw in Natural Chakra which does not nicur on your personal chakra and is much stronger than normal chakra. Now Ask yourself what happens to someone who cannot master sage mode? Well they turn into a frog statue correct? Here is where it gets quite interesting. How is Gen-Jutsu Performed? Gen jutsu is where you take control of your opponents chakra Circulating in their head. It lets you control everything they see but not their actions. After your caught it pretty much comes down to your intellect and judgement to decifer wheter it is real or not. Well, Say for instance Naruto gets Caught in A Gen-jutsu, we all already know he is pretty weak agaisnt Gen-jutsu. Jiraiya did teach him ways to get out yes, but he still hasnt really mastered them. All Naruto would need to do is go into sage mode. It gets funny here. Now the chakra is changing rapidly, into Natural chakra mixed with Normal Chakra. what happens when you cant control natural chakra? You turn into a Frog statue right? Even if someone as powerful as itachi could control the Natural chakra, The chakra is changing so rapidly that it would be very hard to keep cntrolling their chakra and having them in a gen-jutsu. Hence meaning for all the people who love sasuke. Sasuke's Mangekyo Is useless versus Naruto. Ill rest my case here, but please If you believe Im wrong state it.

06-12-2009, 10:22 AM	#2
trondah ANBU Join Date: Jul 2007 Age: 30 Posts: 1,962 Thanks: 13 Thanked 77 Times in 49 Posts	Re: Sage Mode Versus Gen-Jutsu Uhm, no? Genjutsu is more or less injecting chakra into someone else, disturbing their chakra. If anything, Sasuke's Mangekyou will turn Naruto into a frog, since his chakra will be disturbed. The only option Naruto has to counter genjutsu is by partnering up with kyuubi. Which will happen eventually. __________________ Hashirama Senju, the man hailed as the best shinobi of all time. Last edited by trondah; 06-12-2009 at 10:23 AM.

06-12-2009, 10:35 AM	#4
AnbuKakashi Chuunin Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Miami, Florida Age: 26 Posts: 392 Thanks: 55 Thanked 28 Times in 18 Posts	Re: Sage Mode Versus Gen-Jutsu Here is a minor part of genjutsu usage. Heres the link incase anythign else. http://forum.onemanga.com/archive/in...p/t-41378.html Genjutsu (Illusion Techniques) Genjutsu techniques are the illusion techniques of a ninja, they normally require hand seals. Genjutsu will use hypnotism to cause hallucinations in others. By causing such illusions they can cause their target mental pain and suffering just as real as physical hurt. Genjutsu is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their minds chakra, thereby affecting their five senses. To combat the effects of Genjutsu, there are two options. The first option is for the ninja to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside ninja unaffected by the Genjutsu make body contact, and use their chakra to disrupt the casters flow. This is why I believe Sage mode can completely Counter any gen jutsu or even as powerful as Mangekyo Tsukioumi. Last edited by AnbuKakashi; 06-12-2009 at 10:38 AM.

06-12-2009, 01:44 PM	#6
dsyoji Master Sage Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: At my girlfriends place gettin some. Posts: 117 Thanks: 78 Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Sage Mode Versus Gen-Jutsu The main reason Sakara is able to disperse a genjutsu better than Naruto is because she has better chakra control than Naruto. I think his Sage training will give him the added benefit of being able to disperse a genjutsu because of the level of concentration he had to master in order to become a Sage. __________________ Rinnegan enhanced Kyuubi Sage Mode

06-12-2009, 02:42 PM	#9
freedom07 SASUKE'S TRUE #1 FAN!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SASUKE Age: 25 Posts: 2,113 Thanks: 160 Thanked 733 Times in 390 Posts	Re: Sage Mode Versus Gen-Jutsu genjutsu is when u disturb someones chkara with your own...it can be inflicted by using the 5 senses.. the only time ppl have got out of genjutsu is when 1. you release it yourself with the "kai" thing (this only seems to work on weak genjutsu as naruto couldnt use it to break out of a genjutsu form 30% itachi) 2. when OTHER ppl correct the chakra flow with their own chakra ....sage mode natural chakra would not help ...becuase the genjutsu would distrupt that flow..if u think when naruto is in genjutsu under normal mode and then try to break out of it by going sage mode,..that could work but he would have to be really really good at control because if he doesnt he will turn into a frog.. 3. sharingan.- at the moment it seems that the only other option that doesnt involve other ppl (or chakra beasts) to diffuse good genjutsu is with sharingan-as proven with itachi when he got out of kurenais and when sasuke got out of itachis like other ppl have said if anything genjutsu would either turn naruto into a frog or break the sage mode and turn him back to normal ( i think naruto only goes to a frog if he misproperly balances the chakra when GATHERING it so if hes already in sage mode i reckon itll just turn him back normal)

06-12-2009, 03:10 PM	#10
KatrinaKatt ▫◊▫ Uchiha Kitty ▫◊▫ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 431 Thanks: 125 Thanked 106 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Sage Mode Versus Gen-Jutsu I suspect that after Sasuke's last encounter with Killer Bee, where he attempted to and failed to use Genjutsu on a Jinchuuriki, he won't make the same mistake twice. He even explained to Sasuke why, and thats because his Bijuu dispelled it for him. Granted, Naruto isn't exactly friends with the Fox, but he has the same potential, and Sasuke should be smart enough to realize this and be leery about wasting a vast amount of chakra on a MS Genjutsu. Although I do happen to agree with you AnbuKakashi: Genjutsu is the control of the five-senses via manipulating their chakra. You can manipulate their regular chakra all you want, but at the end of the day you're not controlling the "Natural Chakra". Since the Natural energy has been shown to increase ones stats in more ways than one, I suspect a Genjutsu would be (much) less effective, but PnJ is very strong so... edit: But when you say Naruto is immune to Sasuke's MS, don't forget MS isn't just Genjutsu __________________ Uchiha Kitty ^.^ WARNING: Looking into her eyes MAY forcefully cause you to add to her Reputation (And, receive some back as a result!... Make sure to leave your name!) Mission: Deliver this Top Secret Scroll Do not open! Bzzzzzt! As you open the scroll you realize it's a trap! A bright light flashes, and you feel the uncontrollable urge to pass Reputation to KatrinaKatt. Hours later, after the scroll's power wears off on you, you realize what had happened. "Darn it!! That Uchiha Kitty got me again!" Curiosity killed the Cat, after all. Last edited by KatrinaKatt; 06-12-2009 at 03:13 PM.

06-12-2009, 09:31 PM	#14
Myth Kage Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,116 Thanks: 379 Thanked 2,624 Times in 1,636 Posts	Re: Sage Mode Versus Gen-Jutsu 30% itachi genjutsuy>sasuke 100% genjutsu itachi was god in genjutsu plain nd simple sauske is nowhere near that level. itachi could cast them with body parts nd as veng said he can use his crows to cast it as well.... he's so good he can take ur genjutsu nd use it on u like he did with kurenai... Sasuke hasn't shown any great genjutsu skill not 1 to actually get naruto like itachi did...

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